Talk:John Furlong (sports administrator)

A note about the Burns Lake Human Rights Tribunal, an an unnamed teacher
As discussed in the article, during the tribunal that began in May, 2023, there were accusations against a teacher at the school who's name has been protected by a publication ban. This makes it illegal in Canada for anybody to say this person's name, date of birth, country of origin, current location, job, or really any details about him. He's only to be referred to as A.B.. Amanda Follett Hosgood's article in the Tyee goes into this well link. As per WP:Publication Bans, this can be ignored by American editors so long as they have reliable sources about who A.B. is, but since almost all the reporting on this tribunal has been in Canadian outlets who are subjected to the ban I'm not sure that is possible.

I'm not too familiar with how these things are done, a publication ban is normally used to protect the victims of a crime (which I have no issue with), but this is protecting the accused, and this incident is quite notable and should be included on the page of anybody who may have worked at Immaculata Elementary School in that era so this seems like a good place to discuss it.

2001:569:BF3C:3F00:C03E:18FD:84C9:1F55 (talk) 22:18, 20 October 2023 (UTC)

recent edits
Recent edits have hugely increased the focus on allegations of abuse to the point where these are the main topic of the article. This is entirely inappropriate for a BLP. Either significant new content unrelated to the allegations needs to be introduced, significant amounts related to the allegations removed, or the changes reverted wholesale. Stuartyeates (talk) 18:59, 26 January 2016 (UTC)
 * I agree. Feel free to reduce the emphasis. Walter Görlitz (talk) 06:11, 27 January 2016 (UTC)
 * I have rolled back the efforts of two WP:SPAs to a version with significantly better balance. Stuartyeates (talk) 21:56, 27 January 2016 (UTC)

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Coatrack
It certainly makes sense to add the death of Georgian lugeer at Nodar Kumaritashvili Whistler Sliding Centre because it happened there. It could be added at Luge at the 2010 Winter Olympics as that was the specific event at which it occurred. It should certainly be discussed at Nodar Kumaritashvili because he is the primary subject of the event. It should be included at 2010 Winter Olympics because again, it was a part of the event. Furlong simply represented the games and spoke on behalf of the games. He was not directly responsible. His comment is not about him, which is what the article is supposed to reflect. This is a textbook example of WP:COATRACK. Walter Görlitz (talk) 00:08, 1 January 2017 (UTC)

Furlong report on Stanley Cup Riot
Should the subject's post-Olympic appointment (which received considerable public attention) to review a high-profile 2011 riot be added to his biography article? The below paragraph and reference was added to article in early 2015.

-Post-Olympic-

In the aftermath of the 2011 Vancouver Stanley Cup riot, Furlong was appointed along with Douglas Keefe to independently examine the incident and to offer recommendations for the future. The report, The Night the City Became a Stadium: Independent Review of 2011 Vancouver Stanley Cup Playoffs Riot, was published on September 1, 2011.cite web|url=http://www.pssg.gov.bc.ca/vancouverriotreview/ |title=Vancouver Riot Review |publisher=Pssg.gov.bc.ca |date= |accessdate=November 19, 2012

Canuckle (talk) 00:24, 1 January 2017 (UTC)
 * It says nothing about the riot only about Furlong's appointment and the final report so it makes sense to include. Walter Görlitz (talk) 00:28, 1 January 2017 (UTC)

More content on Olympic executive performance?
Given that (sports administrator) is part of the biography's title and that Furlong's performance as CEO of VANOC was his highest notability for that job type, should there be more than just the current 2 or 3 basic sentences about his VANOC job?

Editors could add more accurate & neutral content based on reliable sources specifically about Furlong's VANOC CEO performance.

For example: Possible topic 1: Financial performance / debt-free by VANOC given CEO role in it & the common international concerns about costs for most Olympic host cities/countries.

Sample sources:
 * CBC Vancouver article: Vancouver 2010 Winter Olympics debt-free, VANOC final report says: CEO John Furlong announces dissolution of committee, revenues and expenses just shy of $1.9 billion


 * Slate article: The Olympics Should Be in Vancouver. Winter and Summer. Every Two Years. Forever.

Possible topic 2: Crisis Management. Furlong did perform in managing crisis communications & organization follow-up about the fatal tragedy of an athlete death that interrupted Furlong's participation in opening and closing ceremonies.

The tragedy is already mentioned in wiki articles about the Whistler Luge Site and Controversies for the 2010 Winter Olympics. However, some of the issue is quite relevant to the biography of Furlong given his administration involvement, decisions & communications before, during & after the tragedy.

For example, his attending the deceased athlete's memorial event in the country of Georgia received news coverage. And Furlong repeatedly publicly stated how the crisis management was challenging but very important to him.
 * Sample source about his Board of Trade speech about managing the tragedy: Furlong: "We had tested for everything, this was not one of those things."

There was also public concerns about his possible role in changing the infrastructure that some thought may caused the death. But as CEO he did participate in the Coroner's Report, sports association and others. Recently some content in this bio article was all about criticism so may have influenced some editors that the topic of the tragedy was about adding extra controversy to this bio. It was a high-profile historic crisis but if Furlong managed it according to sources, then his performance is relevant to the section about his notable job in this biography.

Welcome good sourced writing by other contributors & also respectful discussion about the pertinence of such topics for this bio. Canuckle (talk) 02:27, 1 January 2017 (UTC)
 * Unless the discussion is about Furlong it's WP:COATRACK. Debt-free by VANOC is about VANOC, not only Furlong so that's a coatrack. Crisis Management already discussed two sections above in the newly added coatrack section. Not about Furlong. Walter Görlitz (talk) 02:34, 1 January 2017 (UTC)
 * Sad to see you fully ignore the relation specific to Furlong's performance as CEO that could give truthful impression of the subject and so isn't WP:COATRACK. CoatRack are also often expected to "be created purposefully to promote a particular bias" and unbalanced so that's an incorrect perception. Adding more appropriate information about the subject would help address that most of the current article is about some unproved but controversial legal issues. Canuckle (talk) 04:43, 1 January 2017 (UTC)
 * As CEO, was the the engineer who designed the track? As CEO did he tell Kumaritashvili to go off-course or train in the way he did on that run? Furlong had almost no responsibility for the accident, but as the highest representative, he took the responsibility to comment on the incident. COATRACK. However, feel free to ask for another opinion, or take this to RfC. While I am an experienced editor who has seen this sort of thing applied to many articles, I may be wrong here and others may disagree with me. Walter Görlitz (talk) 06:11, 1 January 2017 (UTC)

RfC about the inclusion of an "opening day crisis" section

 * Note: The was blocked for sockpuppetry. If the closure needs a review, you may go to WP:administrators' noticeboard --George Ho (talk) 17:17, 23 July 2017 (UTC)

Should the article contain a section about the death of Georgian luger Nodar Kumaritashvili at Whistler Sliding Centre in a practice run and the aftermath, because it happened while the subject was running the 2010 Winter Olympics games, or is it a WP:COATRACK and does not help us to understand anything about Furlong? Walter Görlitz (talk) 01:09, 2 January 2017 (UTC)

Very helpful to understand about Furlong's notable professionalism and high-profile addressing a historic incident. For comparison purpose : here is link to recent section that was removed - https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=John_Furlong_%28sports_administrator%29&type=revision&diff=757836663&oldid=757836480
 * Does Opening Day Incident Section Conditions Apply to this Subject?:


 * Avoiding harm conditions
 * Is the information already widely known? -- YES
 * Is the information definitive and factual? -- YES
 * Is the information given due weight in relation to the subject's notability? Biographies should not be dominated by a single event in the subject's life? -- YES
 * If all of these apply, then it is reasonable for the information to be included. - CONFIRMS Section okay.


 * In the case of WP:PUBLICFIGURE, if an allegation or incident is noteworthy, relevant, and well documented, it belongs in the article


 * WP:BLPCRIME - fyi refer to this page mostly to compare to the abuse & defamation allegation sections that were controversial but not yet finished in court.


 * The incident is very relevant to the person. The subject of the bio professionally promotes (as do other organizations such as universities) himself as a Universal Crisis Manager as one of his top 3 characters and he has been publicly talking about the incident as the game's biggest challenge and his management of it for 5+years. The highest-profile crisis and tragic because was a death, is the Opening Day Incident where a luger became just the 4th athlete to die in a Winter Games. Not only did the CEO adjust the Opening Ceremony & his speech but he also was sensitive to the man's family so carried the coffin, went to his home country memorial event, etc. And it was not just crisis communications and stakeholder relations, as an sports admin executive he had involvement subject to lots of media coverage about the infrastructure change. And recent content included media reports on how he acted on safety concerns prior to construction which is just one of a number of details that offset the misperception of the section being critical or defamation.
 * While a death can appear sad, the incident was notable and the CEO had significant involvement in addressing the incident that was covered for years by much reliable sources. If good and accurate content is included, then it should prevent readers from perceiving the incident as criticism written by opposition-editors.
 * Other articles such as the athlete bio and Games articles should be the main sources for the wikipedia coverage of the incident. Most of the incident should be on those other pages when related to the subjects of those articles. However, the CEO's performance and perception is very pertinent to his biography and so relevant details about the incident should be on this bio. And okay for editors to monitor to ensure that some (not all) portions might be best added to other articles but may or may not need to be removed from the bio.

Do WP:COATRACK Conditions Apply to this Subject?: Canuckle (talk) 22:55, 2 January 2017 (UTC)
 * ostensibly discusses its nominal subject, but instead focuses on another subject entirely - NO - One small-medium sub-section means is not COATRACK article because is not most content and not main or major focus.
 * may be used for WP:BIAS about one or more tangential subjects - NO - Intent & Content is Neutral not Systemic Bias. Likely not tangential for VANOC CEO bio. Although other articles (such as athlete bio, 2010 games controversies, etc.) contain most of the main description of the athlete death incident, the CEO's reputation for his administration and crisis management are very pertinent for his bio. Tons of journalist investigation and publishing about his role with the incident. And even Furlong speaks publicly about it for years, and is likely the major factor in his frequent professional claim to be a 'Universal Crisis Manager.'
 * Existence of a 'hook' in the article to hang the nominal subject - No if done right - Agree to avoid WP:UNDUE weight for irrelevant and biased content that significantly appears to hang the bio subject like a coat on a hook. Given that the reliable sources mostly confirm professional performance by the bio subject rather than solely criticism or lack of facts. If this section is done properly to be neutral then it endorses not hangs the subject. Do need to monitor to ensure opponents and vandals don't write bad content about the subject.
 * fails to give truthful impression, nominal subject gets hidden behind the sheer volume of the bias subject(s) & largely critical articles that are discredited or reliant on WP:FRINGEBLP theories - NO - If written properly, then the subject will confirm his crisis management reputation. It is real, truthful and legitimately referenced. Not largely critical section. Not sheer volume especially compared to length of other sections, that also include controversies.
 * if something distracts too much from the focus, scope, and aim of the Wikipedia article, it is probably a coatrack - NO - if careful. The subject's most notability is his wide recognition for performance as VANOC CEO & a section as an example of his performance is consistent not distracting from the main focus and scope of the bio. However, do urge caution because some people may over-react or misperceive due to their personal sensitivity about deaths. Because the section mentions a man dying, that will cause emotional reactions and may cause some readers to stare at that section more than the full article. And might inspire vandals or opponents to edit it badly. Which is a similar risk to the abuse allegations section also in the bio.
 * WP:Cherrypicking Instead of finding a balanced set of information about the subject (positive and negative), a coatrack goes out of its way to find facts that support a particular bias. - No - already said reliant on neutral & unbiased publishing of info from reliable sources. Certainly may include balanced content so is very much not a particular bias. Also does not at all list a large number of quotes from small fraction of critical people.
 * best response is to add more balanced content cited from reliable sources while trimming off excessive biased content. - recommended approach versus constant reverts - Better to add/replace with higher-quality content than to mostly react with full deletions.


 * Include in the article per . The incident is very relevant to the individual and based on the analysis above, WP:COATRACK does not apply. --  Dane  talk  05:25, 3 January 2017 (UTC)


 * Note: The was blocked for sockpuppetry. If the closure needs a review, you may go to WP:administrators' noticeboard --George Ho (talk) 17:17, 23 July 2017 (UTC)

2 Possible Questionable Users? Or Not?
Welcome these users or other editors / administrators to discuss whether there should be concerns about 2 users without user pages and who seem to focus on this article's controversies and whether their edits/reverts are consistent with WP:BLP and anti-defamation requirements.
 * 1 - StefObrien (talk) has no user/talk pages and has only 14 edits since August and all on this article. While some of his grammar improvements and other edits are okay or good, much of the changes seem to increase the volume of the controversies, allegations and not standard biography content. Do others perceive this the same or better or worse?
 * 2 - Sportsupdater2016 (talk) has no user/talk pages and has done 18 edits since August on 5 pages, which may be all related to this article (such as Irish school, etc.) Although some of his/her edits were okay and maybe improvement, sometimes deleted large content and added/edited criticism content such as "colleague of serial child molester George Gibney"

Hope results in better clarity and engagement among contributors. Canuckle (talk) 22:32, 2 January 2017 (UTC)
 * Sorry that above User page wikilinks need correcting. Haven't had to post similar in quite some time.Canuckle (talk) 22:33, 2 January 2017 (UTC)

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