Talk:John Hardy (song)

Untitled
Although true folk songs are in the public domain, Lomax's edition of these lyrics may be copyrighted. This possibility should be checked. -- Chironomia 20:50, 13 April 2007 (UTC)

What about John Jacob Niles's lyrics? Don G Taylor (talk) 02:39, 11 October 2017 (UTC) ' The final comment is kind of laughable. "steel driving" is a colloquialism for laying railroad track, making both John Henry and John Hardy railroad workers, a common laborer job in the 19th century. The term refers specifically to driving the steel spikes that hold the steel rails to the wooden railroad ties. There certainly were other tasks for laying track, but this was definitely a task for a railroad worker. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2601:600:8280:6710:24A2:7B3:E52C:C393 (talk) 21:59, 10 November 2017 (UTC)

Song Origins
Some facts to consider for further revisions of this article. Information confirming folk collection long out of copyright is available online. Frank C. Brown, writing in Ballad-Literature in North Carolina (reprinted from Proceedings and Addresses of the Fifteenth Annual Session of the Literary and Historical Association of North Carolina, Dec. 1-2, 1914), p. 12, gives 5 sets of lyrics, found in WV and NC. Ramseyman (talk) 03:40, 19 September 2020 (UTC)

Basis in Fact
Details of the crime are equally available online. The name of the victim is apparently not known. It happened in a coal mining camp, and there's no evidence that Hardy was a railroad man or in any way related to the similar sounding John Henry. Consider this: Mr. Ernest I. Kyle, a former student of West Virginia University, whose home is at Welch, in a letter dated Sept. 14, 1917, writes as follows:— "John Hardy (colored) killed another Negro over a crap game at Shawnee Camp. This place is now known as Eckman, WV. The Shawnee Coal Company was and is located there. Hardy was tried and convicted in the July term (1893) of the McDowell County Criminal Court, and was hanged near the courthouse on Jan. 19, 1894. While in jail, he composed a song entitled 'John Hardy,' and sung it on the scaffold before the execution. He was baptized the day before the execution, information from W. T. Tabor, deputy clerk of the court at the time of the trial. Mr. Tabor informs me that there is no record of the trial in existence. The only thing I could find at the courthouse was the order for John Hardy's execution:

State of West Virginia vs. John Hardy. } Felony.

This day came again the State by her attorney and the Prisoner who stands convicted of murder in the first degree was again brought to the bar of the Court in custody of the Sheriff of this County; and thereupon the Prisoner being asked by the Court if anything he had or could say why the Court should not proceed to pass the sentence of the law upon him in accordance with the verdict of the jury impaneled in this cause, and the Prisoner saying nothing why such sentence should not be passed upon him by the Court; It is therefore considered by the Court that the Prisoner John Hardy, is guilty as found by the verdict of the jury herein and that the said John Hardy be hanged by the neck until he is dead, and that the Sheriff of the County, on Friday the 19th day of January 1894, take the said John Hardy from the jail of the County to some suitable place to be selected by him in this County and there hang the said John Hardy by the neck until he is dead, and the prisoner is remanded to jail.:

Statement given by Mr. W. T. Tabor: "John Hardy: Negro; about forty years of age; black in color; from Virginia; worked as miner in coal-fields; had no family as known; killed another Negro in a crap game over 75 cents. … Hardy lies buried in Woodmont addition to town of Welch."

The statement of R. L. Johnson, constable, who helped arrest Hardy, as compiled by Mr. Charles V. Price, shorthand reporter at Welch, WV:— "I was at Keystone the morning that Hardy killed this fellow, but I couldn't tell you the fellow's name now. They were shooting craps at Shawnee camp, and he was crap-shooting. They got on the train at Grover, and they got them, and they put him on the train and brought him back to Keystone, and they come and threatened to lynch him, and we said they couldn't come up there”. JUDGE HERNDON. You say you don't remember the name of the man John Hardy killed? MR. JOHNSON. No, I don't remember him. JUDGE HERNDON. But do you remember what they killed him for? MR. JOHNSON. They were shooting craps. It is my understanding they had had the crap game before, and this fellow had skinned Hardy, and he went back and started the crap game to get to kill him. That was the statement at the time. JUDGE HERNDON. In other words, this colored man that Hardy killed had skinned Hardy in the game before that game? MR. JOHNSON. Yes, sir, and Hardy goes down and starts a crap game, and Webb was behind this rock with his Winchester so if Hardy failed he would get him. That was the statement, what they claimed when they came after us, when we went down there.

Mr. A. C. Payne, English, W.Va., in a letter dated Oct. 16, 1917, writes: " I was one of the jury that convicted him. He was a miner about 6 feet high and about 25 years old, as well as I could guess at him. He killed a Negro boy about 19 years old." Ramseyman (talk) 03:40, 19 September 2020 (UTC)

"Desperate little man"
My presumption would be that "desperate little man" would refer to his character - a little man. Not his physical size. Why is that section in there?

Also, the massive block of artists who did this song could afford some reformatting or trimming. Rsemmes92 (talk) 17:22, 7 March 2023 (UTC)