Talk:John Komnenos Vatatzes

Chronological inconsistency
Quote from the article: "After Andronikos had achieved power [e.g. May 1182], later in 1182, Vatatzes is recorded as residing near Philadelphia in western Anatolia; presumably he had been dismissed from his offices" So if this is true, Vatatzes must have been alive well after "16 May 1182", the alleged date of death. --SJuergen (talk) 20:49, 1 November 2014 (UTC)


 * There is no problem here. Andronikos made his bid for power in early 1182. He had achieved a measure of stability in his position between then and May. Choniates indicates that at some point between Andronikos assuming effective power and May of 1182, Vatatzes moved to Philadelphia. The text does not indicate a precise moment for Andronikos' achievement of power, certainly not May, just that it was later in the year than his entry into Constantinople. There are a number of months between January and May. Urselius (talk) 21:10, 1 November 2014 (UTC)


 * Not necessarily. The sequence of events fits easily within a few weeks from April, when Andronikos arrived before Constantinople and his supporters massacred the Latins of the city. Choniates reports that the message of Andronikos to Vatatzes to join him was probably sent before his arrival in the city, and also makes clear that Vatatzes' death preceded Andronikos' coronation as co-emperor. The wording in our article is somewhat unfortunate, with this "After Andronikos..." implying that Vatatzes was in the area after mid-May, whereas in fact what the original author probably meant (or was misled by) is the fact that the confrontation between Vatatzes and Andronikos' troops is narrated by Choniates after Andronikos' seizure of power. I'll fix that. Constantine  ✍  21:14, 1 November 2014 (UTC)