Talk:John Lennon/Archive 9

Passing GA
I passed this article as a good article, before anyone attempts to put it through FA review, I would suggest reducing the section on May Pang and working on the copyediting. Aaron Bowen (talk) 22:26, 22 March 2008 (UTC)


 * I'll reduce May Pang. Hotcop2 (talk) 23:03, 22 March 2008 (UTC)

She's reduced -- only facts and chronological are there. The last paragraph is about Lennon and Ono and the reunion. Hotcop2 (talk) 23:43, 22 March 2008 (UTC)

GA
We thank you, Aaron Bowen. --andreasegde (talk) 00:17, 23 March 2008 (UTC)


 * I can't 'effin believe it - John is a GA.--andreasegde (talk) 00:23, 23 March 2008 (UTC)

Alrighty. This is great! WTG A, I'd give you a star back if I had any idea how ;-) Hotcop2 (talk) 01:06, 23 March 2008 (UTC)

So, let me get this straight. After all your protests and crying, this article was finally listed as a GA after the demand to reduce the May Pang section was followed? That's exactly what I thought.. I told you, she's a messed up BIATCH! 139.57.44.211 (talk) 00:37, 25 March 2008 (UTC)


 * Can you read???? I quote: "I passed this article as a good article, before anyone attempts to put it through FA review, I would suggest..." Got it? So, let's start with A for Apple, B for Bollocks, and C for C#*=.--212.241.67.98 (talk) 04:30, 25 March 2008 (UTC)


 * hahahaha... I'm in law school, so yes, I can read you degenerate. GA, FA, whatever.. either way, it has to be edited.  Keep up the good work, at least you're useful @ something in life. 69.157.110.240 (talk) 19:07, 25 March 2008 (UTC)

I have a brother who talks the same way you do, so I understand. Law school is (quoting you) a BIATCH I have heard, so the frustration can lead one into releasing it on these pages. The funny thing is that when you pass the Bar exam, you should talk in court the same way as you do here. It would be a breath of fresh air in the legal world. Let's call it a draw, and shake hands. :)--andreasegde (talk) 18:12, 27 March 2008 (UTC)

John Lennon an atheist?
Some of his songs, including "Imagine" are critical of religion. Was he an atheist, agnostic or just a misunderstood person? -User:Chamaoloan 1:35 AM April 22, 2008. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.116.23.185 (talk) 05:36, 22 April 2008 (UTC)

He wasn't an athiest. He acknowledged a higher power (several, in fact). Organized religions got on his nerves tho. In one of his last interviews, he said "I don't know why people think otherwise but I'm a most religious fellow." Probably had something to do with the song "God." Anyway, he's sporting a crucifix all over the photos in "Instamatic Karma" and he ended his career with God bless our love." Hotcop2 (talk) 12:57, 22 April 2008 (UTC)

I'm fairly sure John was a humanist, maybe he should be added to the British Humanists category? 87.102.36.191 (talk) 03:25, 21 June 2008 (UTC)

Most evidence points toward him being an Agnostic Humanist, of which I share the same faith. Hurricane Floyd (talk) 23:50, 8 July 2008 (UTC)

Session bands
Given the page is semi-protected, just a heads up to the fact that the band name for Walls and Bridges is the '...Philharm*a*nic Orchestrange', rather than Philharm*o*nic - 124.171.49.93 (talk) 06:14, 25 April 2008 (UTC)


 * Done.--andreasegde (talk) 12:34, 9 May 2008 (UTC)

Michael X
John Lennon paid the bail for Michael X in January 1971. In February 1971, he fled to his native Trinidad. Within a year, Michael X had murdered Joseph Skerritt and Gale Benson. Gale Benson had been hacked with a machete and buried alive. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 91.177.199.67 (talk) 23:43, 27 April 2008 (UTC)

Four Shots, Not Five
Hit John. Please fix it. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.193.211.157 (talk) 05:21, 30 April 2008 (UTC)


 * Gosh, that was hard to fix. I hope nobody else comes up with something like that again...--andreasegde (talk) 12:27, 9 May 2008 (UTC)


 * LOL, Andreasegde. Cheers,  Kodster  (heLLo) ( Me did that ) 01:40, 17 May 2008 (UTC)

Yeah laugh it up. The article is GA with the wrong information. I would have changed it myself but it is locked. 24.193.211.157 (talk) 06:36, 17 May 2008 (UTC)


 * The laugh is probably on whoever provided the only citation for the paragraph on the gunshots, which is to this embarrassingly unreliable tertiary web source. Please supply better sources: I believe some can be found at Death of John Lennon. Please also check the article for similar embarrassing issues of unreliable sources. Thanks, Geometry guy 23:48, 17 May 2008 (UTC)

Lickety-split, sir.--andreasegde (talk) 13:11, 2 June 2008 (UTC)

"Excessive number of copyrighted images"
Really? Don't recall any objections when it made GA barely two months ago. All have valid rationales. I don't see the point of this tag. Pawnkingthree (talk) 19:55, 3 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Starting at the first image, the rationale is:
 * Fair is use is claimed for this photograph of John Lennon in the articles John Lennon: The image is of a lower resolution than the original photograph (copies made from it will be of inferior quality). The photo is being used for informational purposes only, and its use is not believed to detract from the original in any way. No free alternative is known to be available, and the subject is deceased. Source: [2]
 * how is this valid? it in no way addresses how the Significance. Non-free content is used only if its presence would significantly increase readers' understanding of the topic, and its omission would be detrimental to that understanding (WP:NFC#8) Fasach Nua (talk) 09:14, 7 June 2008 (UTC)

I request you to find free-use photos of Lennon at that time. How are we supposed to inform any reader that Lennon was once a boy? Ask them to "Imagine" that he once wore short trousers? Visual information is vital to this article, so as to stop it looking like a train timetable.--andreasegde (talk) 19:16, 8 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Is the average WP reader so nieve, that they are unaware that in becoming a man that John Lennon had to be a boy at some stage (and also a baby), that they need a photo to understand this concept? Fasach Nua (talk) 06:51, 9 June 2008 (UTC)

"Is the average WP reader so nieve"? Hmmm.. That's a new word.

You, Fasach Nua, misunderstand the concept of how people like to read an article, as do many others. Yes, you may feel happy when an article looks a DVD/video recorder manual - which nobody bothers to read, even less understand - but that is what you think is correct. Cut it, and let people see everything in black & white, because the true information is there, in your opinion. Telephone books are interesting to read, if that is what you like.

I ask you to do one thing: Burn every single photo of you when you were young, and only keep the ones of you now. Why not? Lennon is dead, and you are not. Do you want to erase everything?--andreasegde (talk) 21:39, 9 June 2008 (UTC)
 * I don't really get what you are trying to say, but this is Wikipedia, and it has a function Fasach Nua (talk) 11:46, 10 June 2008 (UTC)

Oh dear, I have just read that mission statement, and it has nothing to do with how Wikipedia functions at all. Secondly, it says absolutely nothing about photographs. BTW, telling me "this is Wikipedia", is so naive. Did you think I didn't know? :)) Stating the obvious confirms the point that some readers are naive, and certain historical photographs are needed. I rest my case, M'Lud :) --andreasegde (talk) 17:08, 10 June 2008 (UTC)

The Quarrymen
How interesting; Lennon started the group with Eric Griffiths, and then invited Pete Shotton to join (reference supplied, with all the trimmings...)--andreasegde (talk) 19:14, 14 June 2008 (UTC)

Picture
I think that this article could use a better picture. One that probably shows his entire face. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.223.9.196 (talk) 10:17, 28 June 2008 (UTC)

John Winston Ono Lennon
At the time of his last legal will and testament (1, 2, 3), it would appear that his name did indeed include his second name of Winston. I have advised Omarraii to discuss the citations here after he posted to my user talk page, providing them. We need to stay polite, folks. Unless you are a sock-puppet, we all deserve every bit of politeness we can muster, especially when we feel we are being put to task. - Arcayne   (cast a spell)  20:04, 8 July 2008 (UTC)
 * I second the affirmation of the use of his second name of Winston at the time of his will.

And yes, we all need to remember to be polite, this includes certain sysops too. Hurricane Floyd (talk) 23:48, 8 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Good job in providing the citations, Omarraii. This is how the process is supposed to work, I think. No one runs crying from the room or thinking how to cub-stomp someone through the bandwidth. Being polite and professional works wonders. :) Arcayne   (cast a spell)  19:26, 12 July 2008 (UTC)

Requested edit to protected article
Presently, this article links to the disambiguation page Supergroup. Can someone please disambiguate this link to Supergroup (music) or Rock Supergroup? Thanks. --Frostie Jack (talk) 16:38, 16 July 2008 (UTC)
 * I have unprotected the article (18 months is a long time!) so you can go ahead yourself. LessHeard vanU (talk) 16:48, 16 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Thank you. Frostie Jack (talk) 17:24, 16 July 2008 (UTC)

Tight A$
Someone who has the power to do so please delete this.

(In his solo career, Lennon wrote and recorded songs such as "Give Peace a Chance", "Imagine," "Tight A$," "#9 Dream", "Jealous Guy" and "Instant Karma!".)

This was copied from the Article. Somebody vandalized the page by putting "Tight A$" as one of the songs Lennon wrote.

I added "Tight A$" which is a track from the Mind Games album. It's not vandalism. I think we only need "Give peace A Chance" and "Imagine" but if we're going to start naming all of our favorite songs and filling up this "good article" with a bunch of crap, Tight A$ is one of my favorites and it stays. Hotcop2 (talk) 00:06, 21 July 2008 (UTC)

"Important" Lennon songs
Originally, the passage read: In his solo career, Lennon wrote and recorded songs such as "Give Peace a Chance" and "Imagine." Two songs of monumental historial and societal impact. Then someone decided to include "Jealous Guy" and "Instant Karma" which are pretty insignificant compared to Peace and Imagine. In protest, I added "Tight A$" and,"#9 Dream", two of my favorites as long as we're listing any Lennon song that any of us like.

Now, I'm asking opinions... I think we should just include "Imagine" and "Peace" -- nothing else comes close to the impact of these songs. I like Mind Games, Starting over, but they really don't need to be highlighted. What does everyone else think?

P.S. The "jealous guy" forgot to credit Nicky Hopkins for playing piano on that song...


 * You probably shouldn't be including songs "in protest". Edits ought to be made in order to benefit the article, not to express dismay at its current state.  --Frostie Jack (talk) 10:31, 24 July 2008 (UTC)

Yes, I realize that. But being one of two primary editors that beat this article into a "GA," I hate to see it turned into a fansite listing every little thing that everyone in the world knows about Lennon. That's not what this is supposed to be. No one is answering my opinion question yet... how does Jealous Guy and Instant Karma compare with the importance of Imagine? Hotcop2 (talk) 10:44, 24 July 2008 (UTC)


 * I don't have desperately strong opinions about what should be included other than the two most widely recognised songs of Lennon's solo career. However, it seems to me that anyone who does have such an opinion ought first to make the case for whichever song(s) they want include on the talk page in order to gain consensus (if any can be reached).  On that understanding, does it seem reasonable to trim the paragraph and leave a note in the article to direct people to the talk page? --Frostie Jack (talk) 11:56, 24 July 2008 (UTC)

I like this idea. Hotcop2 (talk) 14:43, 24 July 2008 (UTC)


 * Sounds good.--andreasegde (talk) 20:44, 30 July 2008 (UTC)

Magic Alex
Why no mention of him? His article now has lots of references...--andreasegde (talk) 23:18, 9 August 2008 (UTC)

Sources/Notes
Is this a real source of informaiton? Quoted is: Cavell, Stanley (1999). "The Claim of Reason: Wittgenstein, Skepticism, Morality, and Tragedy". Oxford University Press (US). Retrieved on 2008-03-02, but it is linked to: http://www.brainyhistory.com/events/1969/october_12_1969_137523.html. Vandalism/Accident/Real? Please fix. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 78.94.227.122 (talk) 13:19, 18 August 2008 (UTC)
 * The insert of the note appears here: http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=John_Lennon&diff=next&oldid=195362768 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 78.94.227.122 (talk) 15:12, 18 August 2008 (UTC)

Sutcliffe
No mention of the theory that John Lennon's fight with Stuart Sutcliffe precipitated in the latter's death. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 208.65.242.122 (talk • contribs)
 * It is touched upon in Stuart Sutcliffe's article, being obviously more notable in that context. LessHeard vanU (talk) 15:31, 26 August 2008 (UTC)

MBE
I've noticed the back and forth in the edit history, and I recall this coming up before. Are we absolutely sure that once one declines elevation that the honor (sorry, "honour") remains? If the offer is declined, the person remains unelevated. It isn't asif the Queen can force the fellow to take the honor at the point of a sharp and shiny stick or anything. - Arcayne   (cast a spell)
 * Declining only applies before it's granted. However, it was accepted initially by all four Beatles, and thereafter can only be taken away by The Queen, and it hasn't been. Hence, he remains an MBE. -- Rodhull andemu  16:42, 27 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Previous discussion is here, but unfortunately the link given there is now dead. -- Rodhull andemu  17:26, 27 September 2008 (UTC)

Inclusion of "Nowhere Boy" in Memorials/Tributes
There were several movies and countless television specials about Lennon, do we need to mention them? Why single this one out? Opinions? Hotcop2 (talk) 23:26, 3 October 2008 (UTC)

Official Site
I can't believe that the man's official website is not in the link section.

Fancy (which I don't know how to access on the simple version of the site): http://www.johnlennon.com/site.html

Simple: http://www.johnlennon.com/html/news.aspx —Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.66.212.182 (talk) 21:13, 20 October 2008 (UTC)

Moscow tribute to Lennon, an unformal meeting on the 21nd Dec 1980
An informal meeting was held in Moscow to commemorate the death of John. It was quite a feat to do in the Soviet Union those days. Here's the photos, here's the text of the Daily Telegraph's reportage describing the event. --CopperKettle (talk) 16:15, 26 November 2008 (UTC)


 * It should be in Death of John Lennon.

Drug Use
I think it would be relevant to include information about Yoko & John's joint drug use, particularly heroin. Yoko has spoken of it herself, (see http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-461071/John-Yoko-saved-heroin-addiction-greedy-drug-dealer.html) and it is discussed in published bios. As well as it's factual relevance, I think it may shed more light on their "co-dependant" relationship, (for want of a better term). Can someone tell me if they were already using heroin when they insisted on being together 24/7 in the recording studio for Beatles' sessions?--Design (talk) 21:31, 28 November 2008 (UTC)