Talk:John Magufuli

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 * most of article ls UNSOURCED typical wiki crap — Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.174.191.14 (talk) 14:01, 27 February 2019 (UTC)

Header edit suggest. Party affiliation
Anyone noticed ?CCM Party affiliation has not been listed. and CCM party is not linked itself.

Header edit suggestion Wikistallion (talk) 09:38, 22 February 2019 (UTC)

Edit from July 16, 2019 resulted in page error
There was an edit on July 16, 2019, wherein the public image section was amended, and a fraction of a paragraph was moved. The LGBT Abuses section on the current version of this page shows what’s left of this paragraph, which does not pertain to LGBT issues. As a novice Wikipedia editor, I’m unsure of the best way to remedy the error. Can we please get a more experienced member to correct it?

KailyKail (talk) 09:14, 20 April 2020 (UTC)


 * Fixed. Prolog (talk) 15:41, 20 April 2020 (UTC)

Rather polite?
As a random visitor to this article, my feeling is that this is currently rather too positive about its subject, and could do with a rather wider perspective. I've started with a summary of the Economist's critique of Tanzania economic statistics! Ender&#39;s Shadow Snr (talk) 20:32, 24 July 2020 (UTC)

Died 17 March 2021
192.145.174.122 (talk) 21:24, 17 March 2021 (UTC) Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. The subject's death is already in the article. 力 (power~enwiki, π,  ν ) 21:29, 17 March 2021 (UTC)

May his soul Rest In Peace 2601:1C2:101:3480:5530:4A5:B5C4:6328 (talk) 22:02, 26 March 2021 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 18 March 2021
At the end of the page, under "Political offices" It says "incumbent" when there should be a link to the new president Hc6pe (talk) 02:05, 18 March 2021 (UTC)
 * Yes check.svg Done — see Special:Diff/1012744165. Thanks! DanCherek (talk) 02:14, 18 March 2021 (UTC)

COVID-19 category
Hi, I noticed he's placed within "COVID-19 pandemic deaths in Tanzania". Has it been confirmed that he died from COVID-19? Isn't it speculation? Regards. -CoryGlee (talk) 16:12, 18 March 2021 (UTC)


 * Possibly. I am fully not sure but we will keep this under the category until it has been fully confirmed DXLB Muzikant (talk) 19:06, 18 March 2021 (UTC)


 * Removed, as not confirmed.  starship .paint  (exalt) 01:32, 19 March 2021 (UTC)

Why Dont you write the word taken that was said by vice president of Tanzania? 41.222.179.22 (talk) 08:03, 22 March 2021 (UTC)
 * Probably because governmental statements involving self-interest tend to be historically unreliable. --Bejnar (talk) 15:21, 25 March 2021 (UTC)
 * Well, that's not in dispute, but quotable, since it is notable I'd say. I recall the rumour that he "died of Covid", but I also recall this being dismissed again. Strange of course, that people, who take a stance against the WHO, then die under mysterious circumstances. And that the COVID-claim is then circulated about this. --105.8.7.232 (talk) 13:58, 19 April 2021 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 18 March 2021 (2)
173.196.193.146 (talk) 18:00, 18 March 2021 (UTC) To change the sentence part "flags would fly at half-staff nationwide" to "flags would fly at half-mast nationwide"
 * Masts are on ships, staves are in the earth. The terms mean the same anyway, but the phrasing half staff is correct for land. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 18:06, 18 March 2021 (UTC)
 * I agree with ScottishFinnishRadish, the correct term is half-staff for flags on land. Please see https://www.va.gov/opa/publications/celebrate/halfstaff.pdf. Jurisdicta (talk) 03:14, 19 March 2021 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 20 March 2021
"Magufuli had not been seen in public since"

This verb tense doesn't make sense unless we're reporting from the perspective of a later occurrence, and mentioning the later occurrence (his death) wouldn't be good here. Please change it to "Magufuli's public appearance was". 108.39.223.134 (talk) 12:38, 20 March 2021 (UTC)
 * You can make this edit yourself. The article is not semi-protected. Instead, it is currently protected under Pending changes. That means that if you make an edit to the article as an IP, the edit will be saved and eventually reviwed and then either accepted or declined. But you don't need to make a protected edit request here. Nsk92 (talk) 14:36, 20 March 2021 (UTC)
 * All I see on the article is a "view source" tab, and when I click it, I get a big This page is currently semi-protected so that only established, registered users can edit it.  message.  108.39.223.134 (talk) 18:03, 20 March 2021 (UTC)
 * Hmm, very strange, that's not how Pending Changes protection is supposed to work. There may be something wrong with the protection settings for this specific page. I'll check with the admin who placed the protection. Nsk92 (talk) 21:02, 20 March 2021 (UTC)
 * I've fixed it so you should be able to edit now, IP user. For more details, see my talk page. ~  ONUnicorn (Talk&#124;Contribs) problem solving 04:50, 21 March 2021 (UTC)
 * Semi-protection-unlocked.svg Not done: The page's protection level has changed since this request was placed. You should now be able to edit the page yourself. If you still seem to be unable to, please reopen the request with further details. ~ Aseleste  (t, e &#124; c, l) 11:03, 21 March 2021 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 20 June 2021
death cause change from Covid19 to Chronic atrial fibrillation death_cause=chronic atrial fibrillation ALUTE MUGWAI LISSU (talk) 12:43, 20 June 2021 (UTC)
 * Note: The Reuters fact check only says that the claim about Magufuli being the only politican worldwide to die from COVID-19 is false. It does not dispute that he died from the pandemic, only noting the Tanzanian gov's claim about him having died of a heart disease. Several other reliable sources have stated that he has probably died of COVID-19. Perhaps the best solution would be to list his death cause as "disputed" in the infobox, and link to the section about his death where the issue is discussed in detail. Applodion (talk) 15:05, 20 June 2021 (UTC)

There shouldn't be Eurocentric views on a Tanzanian President and Tanzanian issues
Hello editors.

As a Tanzanian I can see the main problem with the Wikipedia page of the late President Dr. John Pombe Joseph Magufuli is that it has a heavy Eurocentric view on certain contentious issues such as his handling of COVID-19 and Human Rights.

Europeans should not be the lead writers and speakers about Afrika. This stems from the deep-seated disdain Europeans have about Afrikans. If you are not Afrikan, and you are reading this, ask yourself when have you ever thought positively about Afrika?

The answer is most likely never.

So why do you think you should be writing about an Afrikan President like Dr. John Pombe Joseph Magufuli?

Nor should European and Western media sources be the main sources about an Afrikan President. We have the media in Tanzania. Western media are always negative about Africa, from the reason that I stated earlier (the European disdain of Afrika and of non-European people in general).

'''AN EDITING WAR ''' I made edits that correctly portray Magufuli twice, only to be reverted and more vile content getting added first by a German editor and secondly by a Scandinavian editor.

How would the Germany and the Scandinavian like it if I a Tanzanian talked negatively about their state leaders?

'''COVID-19 ''' Contentious issues are about how Magufuli handled The COVID-19 problem. Many Europeans and people with disdain for African thought have ridiculed Magufuli. But in Tanzania his approach is extremely valued and respected. And most important is has shown great results as Tanzanian have completely conquured the fear of COVID-19, there are no deaths and life is going on as usual. We socialize and crowd in public transportation and in events. These were things that were banned in the Western world, that is striving to push a single narrative about COVID-19.

The warring editors (ie. The German and the Scandinavian) seem to think that medicine is that which has been approved by WHO. They are having a hard time accepting non-WHO medicine that is used in Tanzania and that has brought positive results. This is the core problem of Eurocentric views.

Here is one skeptic German who came to Tanzania when Germany was locked down and beared testimony of how different he found life in Dar es Salaam.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UuRIv1HTzwA

Now why should some editor seating in German or Scandinavia be hell-bent to deny the reality of Tanzania, and get into an editing war with a Tanzanian like me who has lived this reality?

'''GAY RIGHTS ''' Another issue is the gay agenda. Gay agenda is not an issue in Tanzania, in Afrika and most parts of the world. The warring editors want to make it an issue to tarnish Magufuli with. LGBTQ issue are a Western thing and should stay there. Don't push it down everyone's throat.

'''THEREFORE.... ''' Tomorrow around 0600 EAT I am going to re-publish the edits that were removed by European editors. I welcome everyone to review the edits from the perspective of a Tanzanian if they can. Because that is the most important perspective for a person who was voted to power by Tanzanians. — Preceding unsigned comment added by AfrikaMoja (talk • contribs) 04:44, 20 July 2021 (UTC)
 * Just to add to the comments in the edit summaries of the other editors - if you want to get a less Eurocentric perspective in the article, then add sources from Tanzanian media, rather than just your own opinion and youtube videos! Bellowhead678 (talk) 16:27, 20 July 2021 (UTC)
 * This looks to be a good overview from a Tanzanian writer, which could be used as a source, as does this. Cordless Larry (talk) 20:37, 20 July 2021 (UTC)
 * Also, I'm not sure what the "gay agenda" is,, but if you're arguing that LGBT people don't exist in Tanzania, you might like to read this. Cordless Larry (talk) 20:40, 20 July 2021 (UTC)

'''AfrikaMoja's responce to comments above: '''

Unfortunately the editor who reverted my edits is not here on this discussion, for I provided sources. I didn't write just my opinion. Plus the most important thing is I am a Tanzanian. I can stress that enough because I have met with many Westerners and they have no idea about Afrika. All they know about Afrika is the wildlife.

For instance the link your provided above and claimed it was written by a Tanzanian it is not. As a Tanzania I just looked at the name of the author and I knew he wasn't Tanzanian. He is South African. Now you shouldn't be arguing with me, because with such insights comes a great deal of depth which you non-Tanzanians out there can not get or understand just by googling and by relying on biased viewpoints in Western media.

Also remember Tanzania is a Swahili nation. Dr. Magufuli was making speeches on almost a daily basis, and they are all in Kiswahili. What hope does a Westerner who doesn't understand Kiswahili have of understanding Magufuli?

The answer is close to zero.

'''As for LGBT issue ''' [attacks redacted]

So anyone who doesn't understand Kiswahili, the politics of Tanzania (including our political ideology), the history of Tanzania, the socio-economical dynamics of Tanzania, etc has no business writing about Tanzania, unless his agenda is to mislead people about Tanzania.

As for the COVID-19 issues look at the proof in the pudding. Who is dying of COVID-19 between Tanzanians and Westerners? Who was locked down in the houses scared in 2020 (and some even now) between Tanzanians and Westerners?

You may not understand Magufuli's approach, and you may not agree with it (mainly because of the perceived Western superiority complex) but look the results. The results speak for themselves. Tanzanians are OK, Westerners are shit-scared, died in large numbers and they had lots of hospitalizations.

Youtube? You have a problem with Youtube? Why would you consider Youtube as not a serious source? You can't just brush aside Youtube. You have to review it on a video-by-video basis. Youtube in Tanzania is regulated. You need a licence to run a Youtube channel in Tanzania, otherwise you get fined heftly and/or imprisoned. This was done to curb stupidity. As unregulated people with a phone camera can spew a lot of stupidity on Youtube and mislead a country. All of Magufuli's speech are on Youtube, so this is another case of "Not understanding Tanzania". May be Youtube is for cat videos and bedroom broadcasters in The West, but in Tanzania there's a lot of serious journalism on Youtube.

Here are some examples of serious journalism on Youtube:

(1) Global TV Online is a registered media house in Tanzania. They run print newspapers too.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UuRIv1HTzwA

(2) VoA you know it. This VoA guy was a skeptic like many Westerners. Had to come from Nairobi to see for himself how well Tanzania was doing without lockdowns at a time when his home country of Italy was dying left and right like diseased chicken in a hen house. In this video he admits that he even went clubbing in Dar es Salaam at the time when the whole Western world was locked down. You can see how his head is spinning to narrate the reality he saw in Dar es Salaam to fit the narrative that the US propaganda mouthpiece called VoA wants to push.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nLOzsbypSs4

(3) And these two are probably your typical Western vloggers who make you think that Youtube is not a serious source.

(a) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wcdeoJ824C0

(b) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tmx6jLN8F34

WHY YOUTUBE? Because videos can show you better on how life was going on in Tanzania under Magufuli. I will let you scratch your head as to why the whole city of Dar es Salaam didn't die or get hospitalized because in The West you were told if you go out of your houses you will all die.

Bottomline is there's no single story to COVID-19. So the section that claims Magufuli spread misinformation about COVID-19 in laughable to the majority of Tanzanians who never saw the COVID-19 problem, and is misleading about Magufuli and Tanzania, and is a POV (Point of View) of a biased Westerner who thinks the Western experience of COVID-19 is the same throughout the world. It needs to be purged completely from Magufuli's profile, as it has no place in that profile. Same goes for the LGBTQ issues. Needs to get purged, and has no place in Tanzania or in Magufuli's profile. --AfrikaMoja (talk) 21:34, 20 July 2021 (UTC)
 * TL;DR, plus I've given you examples of Tanzanian authors who largely agree with Western assessments, and you appear to have ignored them in favour of setting out your own POV. Cordless Larry (talk) 21:40, 20 July 2021 (UTC)

If it's TLDR why are you responding? We are discussing the profile of a president of a sovereign state here, and you admit that you're not a reader? The author you gave is South African, not Tanzania. So you are proving my point that you are writing on a subject that you are not competent on. There's no POV here other than the The Western agendas that the current version is trying to blame Magufuli with. Magufuli was a Tanzanian president, elected by the Tanzanian people. If you are not a Tanzanian why would you bother with Magufuli? --AfrikaMoja (talk) 22:01, 20 July 2021 (UTC)
 * Aikande Kwayu is Tanzanian, as far as I can tell. Anyway, we don't write articles to reflect only the views of their supporters - otherwise, imagine how bad the article on Donald Trump would likely be. Cordless Larry (talk) 22:17, 20 July 2021 (UTC)


 * The sections in question are very well-sourced, they are neutrally written, and the whole point of having an international encyclopedia created and edited by a global community of volunteers is that we do not write anything based on our own nationality, ethnicity, caste, gender, sexuality, or hair colour. Wikipedia articles are based on what reliable, secondary sources say, not on editors' perception of reality.


 * I have redacted some of the worst attacks in your text above. Per Zero tolerance, editors do not have the right to post slurs against other people. Do not make any such comments anywhere on Wikipedia again. Thank you. --bonadea contributions talk 21:41, 20 July 2021 (UTC)

As I said Magufuli gave speeches in Kiswahili on a daily basis. So if you don't know that, and you don't know Kiswahili you may think those issues are well-sourced. But you'll see they are sourced only from The Western media, which is a Eurocentric viewpoint about Tanzania (a nation of non-Europeans). I will edit the article and you'll see the appropriate sourcing that truly represent what Dr. Magufuli was all about.

As for "internationality of Wikipedia" I think the most important thing is truth. You don't want Wikipedia to come off as a slander website, or a biased website, do you? --AfrikaMoja (talk) 22:01, 20 July 2021 (UTC)
 * Please read WP:TRUTH. Wikipedia does not claim to be free of bias; bias in sources will be reflected in Wikipedia. The sources are presented to readers so they can evaluate and judge them for themselves.  If there are valid independent reliable sources from anywhere that are missing, please offer them, but the article will not be whitewashed to provide a positive view of the president that is not present in independent reliable sources generally.  Anybody anywhere in the world may contribute to the article, and if you cannot accept that, you may find other projects on the internet that are limited to either Tanzanians or experts. 331dot (talk) 00:45, 21 July 2021 (UTC)

-

About "independent reliable sources" what counts as an independent reliable source on Wikipedia? My edits were removed despite citing reliable sources from Tanzania. Plus as I have said Tanzania is a Swahili nation, and Magufuli spoke in Kiswahili exclusively. So how would Wikipedia bridge that gap without me personally describing what he says in a certain speech (videos of which are full on Youtube)? What has been cited in the current version is very little and not representative of all of what Magufuli's message was all about. And that is due to people who are writing about Magufuli but do not know Kiswahili, thus can't take his own words. AfrikaMoja (talk) 01:13, 21 July 2021 (UTC)
 * Having researched this some more, I think it's unlikely that there will be publications based in Tanzania that can be considered reliable on the topic, due to the restrictions that Magufuli's government placed on media freedom and the ability to report on COVID. The best sources are often peer-reviewed academic research articles - which I've added some references to. Cordless Larry (talk) 16:42, 21 July 2021 (UTC)

That is not true at all. It's another Eurocentric trick to remove any control of anything in Afrika. If you remove Tanzanian sources, then what sources are you going to use? Non-Tanzanian sources? The BBC? Are you out of your mind? AfrikaMoja (talk) 20:47, 21 July 2021 (UTC)


 * Stuff like "exemplary leadership in dealing with COVID-19" and tests allegedly being used on fruits as well as animals belong into the category of blatant propaganda, and are not fit for inclusion. I actually respect The Citizen (which AfrikaMoja tried to use as source), as I have used it extensively while writing articles on the Uganda–Tanzania War. However, as Cordless Larry pointed out, media freedom is restricted in Tanzania - and it should be mentioned that The Citizen articles actually mostly just repeat government statements. Meaning, they were not reporting on the management of the crisis, they were just copying the statements of Magufuli and his ministers with attribution. They do not comment on the truthfullness - which says a lot, as The Citizen journalists usually tend to put their opinions (and own research) into their articles. In essence, The Citizen actually does not support AfrikaMoja's claims, and instead casts further doubts on the government's claims. Applodion (talk) 20:51, 21 July 2021 (UTC)

Section on COVID-19
While I disagree with his methods, I will agree with that the section on Magufuli's handling of the COVID-19 crisis may reflect external opinions more than the opinions of local Tanzanians.

I propose a rewrite the last paragraph of the lede as follows


 * From
 * Magufuli was known for promoting misinformation about COVID-19 during his leadership over the pandemic in Tanzania.
 * To
 * Contrary to leaders elsewhere in the world, Magufuli resisted calls to implement nationwide lockdowns during the COVID-19 pandemic in Tanzania. He also expressed distrust of American- and European-developed vaccines, preferring to rely on faith to protect his nation.

I believe this change removes the value-laden language from the paragraph and lets the facts speak for themselves. WikiDan61 ChatMe!ReadMe!! 21:02, 21 July 2021 (UTC)
 * I would usually agree, but he did push misinformation like the claims about Covid tests being used on fruits and animals and resulting in positive results (which is not how this works, at all). I am all for neutrality, but we should not shy away from hard statements when they are correct. Applodion (talk) 21:05, 21 July 2021 (UTC)
 * I suggested some opinion pieces by Tanzanians in the section above, but AfrikaMoja dismissed them. Cordless Larry (talk) 21:15, 21 July 2021 (UTC)
 * AfrikaMoja has been indefinitely blocked now, so I'm guessing their point of view doesn't hold much water any more. I do think there is a tendency to dismiss the views of Africans on occasions like this, though, and I think WikiDan's summary actually sticks to the facts without undue editorialising. Not saying we shouldn't highlight factual errors in what he said if they're well attested, but that doesn't have to be the only thing we say. &mdash; Amakuru (talk) 21:39, 21 July 2021 (UTC)
 * Agreed, and I don't object to the proposed new wording, although I would note that it results in the loss of a reference to a source co-authored by at least one African (this one). We should probably make more use of that source as it explores the impact of Magufuli's statements on local health officials' attitudes and actions. Cordless Larry (talk) 21:58, 21 July 2021 (UTC)
 * Certainly, that sounds like a great plan. I have no time or resources to work on this article myself right now unfortunately, it's just in my wathclist and I saw the discussion so came by with a drive-by comment! &mdash; Amakuru (talk) 22:30, 21 July 2021 (UTC)
 * Can I suggest that we adopt 's suggested wording, but add a sentence such as Magufuli's approach has been characterised as COVID denialism? Lots of sources use that wording. Cordless Larry (talk) 07:27, 22 July 2021 (UTC)
 * Wow, that one is a great suggestion. It sounds less POV-heavy, yet does not ignore the problematic situation. Thanks. This wording has my full support. Applodion (talk) 08:53, 22 July 2021 (UTC)
 * If you could provide a source for your suggested addition, I'd be glad to move forward with the updates. WikiDan61 ChatMe!ReadMe!! 13:04, 22 July 2021 (UTC)
 * Here's a revised suggestion with references: Magufuli's approach has been characterised as one of COVID-19 denialism. Cordless Larry (talk) 13:48, 22 July 2021 (UTC)

✅ WikiDan61 ChatMe!ReadMe!! 13:58, 22 July 2021 (UTC)

Cite error
There is an undefined refname in the Death section. The original reference was removed in this edit, while the refname was still in use elsewhere. The following:   should be replaced with:   Thanks ActivelyDisinterested (talk) 18:32, 16 October 2021 (UTC)
 * ✅ Thanks for pointing this out. Applodion (talk) 10:55, 17 October 2021 (UTC)
 * Thank you ActivelyDisinterested (talk) 12:03, 17 October 2021 (UTC)

image theft warning
they are stealing images from wikipedia,The law of least effort https://reallifevillains.miraheze.org/wiki/John_Magufuli — Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.121.135.127 (talk) 21:46, 2 February 2022 (UTC)
 * Images from Wikimedia Commons and Wikipedia are available for reuse on other sites under the terms of their Creative Commons license. Cordless Larry (talk) 07:23, 3 February 2022 (UTC)