Talk:John Manners, Marquess of Granby

Untitled
Public houses named "Marquis of Granby". The Marquess was a leader greatly loved by his men. The story is that when senior NCOs retired, he would help them set up in the licenced trade, and hence they named their premises in his honour. The confusion between "Marquess" and "Marquis" is a common one. "Marquess" (as in Queensberry) is the English spelling, "Marquis" (as in de Sade) is French. Reference needed.
 * It's not quite that simple. The use of Marquess -v- Marquis in UK use was part fashon and part history. Scottish peers tended (and to some extent still do see the Duke of Roxburghe) to use the French form the English used the English form. It is now common to use the English form for all forms but as with the examples above there is some reasonable grounds for exceptions to this rule.Alci12 13:49, 20 October 2006 (UTC)

The Manners family uses the style "Marquis" for the title, and always has done. The Dictionary of National Biography, among numerous other authoritative sources, spells the title "Marquis". I have changed the spelling in the copy to the correct version but I would be grateful if someone with higher powers than me could change the title and put in a redirect. Zythophile (talk) 09:16, 18 May 2013 (UTC)
 * "Marquis" is the pre-Union Scottish spelling - I agree that the Manners family seems to use it. Dormskirk (talk) 10:57, 18 May 2013 (UTC)
 * Nevertheless Wikipedia strives for consistency of style and the guidance is very clear: "Marquess" should always be used, never "Marquis", for the British rank. Please read WP:PEER. Best wishes. Dormskirk (talk) 12:06, 9 November 2013 (UTC)

The guidelines are wrong. If the Manners family uses the spelling "Marquis" - and it does, here is a page from a book written by the Duchess of Rutland herself, mother of the current Marquis of Granby, which spells the title "Marquis" – then Wikipedia must reflect that usage. Wikipedia's style guides cannot trump the Marquis of Granby's right to spell his title how he wishes, and it is rude and wrong for it to try to do so. As it stands, the entry is inaccurate in not reflecting the correct spelling of the title. Both the guidelines and this entry should be changed as soon as possible. Zythophile (talk) 13:03, 9 November 2013 (UTC)

"an unknown mistress"
According to the Kindred Britain website, the mother of Ann Manners was Ann Mompesson. I would be inclined to believe the site on the parental relationship – sometimes the vital dates it gives may be wrong, but I've not found that on the genealogical gist. I see a print reference for this in Lincolnshire Notes and Queries, vol. 11, via a Google snippet. So there is hope that I can verify it properly, when I get to the library. Charles Matthews (talk) 17:39, 24 January 2017 (UTC)