Talk:John McLaughlin (musician)/Archive 1

Expansion
i would like to add that John McLaughlin is considered a pioneer and founder of the fusion style, not simply a master of style. before McLaughlin was playing jazz, he was playing blues, although recordings in this style are not easy to come by, he could easily be considered a master of the blues..also i would like to add that the guitaristic standards McLaughlin set in the early 70s are still in place today, and that because of his the combination of his vast musical knowledge, experimentation, and technically ability not to mention his immense discography he is comparable to few if any guitarists-and only by comparison of influence, its more suitable to compare him to the likes of john coltrane, debussy, stravinsky, davis etc.

John McLaughlin is one of the greatest (opinion) and most influential (fact) guitarists of our time. Lets expand this article, and possibly put this up for featured article status.

So. What do you say? Mkaycomputer 18:10, 13 November 2005 (UTC)
 * Eh, why not. Deltabeignet 04:38, 26 January 2006 (UTC)

Notes - The Indian thing is in reference to some of the pulse rhythms they used, mainly the 9/8 and 19/4. The Indian thing definitely comes over on "My Goals Beyond" as well, although, the album isn't even mentioned. The Picture is REALLY terrible.

First Paragraph John is mentioned to have "(come) to prominence with the electric group of Miles Davis in the late 1960s, and with other well-known players such as Chick Corea and Tony Williams." Tony was playing with Miles since 1965 I think, and Chick was pretty big with the Blue Mitchell group (he was pretty amazing too). A better example would maybe be Airto, or somebody like that.

Second Paragraph The time is actually 11:8. Brian Odges is missed out.

Third Paragraph The names should be split into Mahavishnu 1 and 2, not just muddled up like that.

Correct pronunciation of McLaughlin
Can anyone tell me: what is the correct pronunciation of mr John McLaughlin's second name? Is it [muh-klawf-lin], with "f" as in word "laugh", or [muh-kloch-lin] with "h" as in Scottish "loch" or [muh-klock-lin] with "k" as in "lock"?

Thanks a lot.

217.23.196.3 06:20, 1 July 2007 (UTC) aka Delija (from Serbian Wiki).


 * It's the second, my friend. -- 86.17.211.191 23:28, 28 July 2007 (UTC)

Definition of "Trio"?
What's wrong with this sentence:

The trio comprised John McLaughlin, Trilok Gurtu, Kai Eckhardt and Dominique DiPiazza.

Maybe only three of them played at any given time, or something like that, but a little explanation would make this look less... silly. MrRK 01:05, 28 September 2007 (UTC)

Picture
Anyone have a better (free license) image of McLaughlin? This one's a little blurry and off-center. C1k3 02:01, 16 June 2007 (UTC)


 * Yes. I found this one in the commons: . I used the Mayflower search. The picture is from 1986, but I think it is better than a blurry, off-centered one. I replaced the current one and moved what was already on the page further down into the body of the article. If anyone objects to two images in this article,  be bold and remove one. Personally, I think that another picture (one of McLaughlin from the 60s/70s) is still needed for the article to be best represented. Anyone? --Restecp 07:11, 18 November 2007 (UTC)

Early life
This article doesn't have much about his early life, training and influences. In short, where the hell did he learn to play the guitar like that?--The Fat Man Who Never Came Back (talk) 16:48, 16 August 2008 (UTC)


 * It's a fair comment (if you ever come back here, that is) - essentially he worked hard for years as a session musician, backing absolutely anything (including lots of stuff he thought 'musically terrible') but thereby becoming recognised as one of the best sight-readers and most accurate players, before really venturing into jazz. I will get round to filling out the article on this, at some point soon.--Ndaisley (talk) 15:01, 21 May 2009 (UTC)


 * As promised, I just added a para to the 1960s section which I hope someone else might expand upon. --Ndaisley (talk) 21:00, 6 June 2009 (UTC)

Unedifying?
I found the following:

"During the 1960s he often had to support himself with session work, which he often found unedifying[3], but which radically enhanced his playing and sight-reading skills."

I find that the second half of the sentence contradicts the first half. Instead of "unedifying" I think a more appropriate word would be "unsatisfying". I'm going to make the change. If McLaughlin used the word "unedifying" in the interview cited, then I suggest someone change the sentence to the following:

"During the 1960s he often had to support himself with session work, which he said he often found unedifying[3], but which nevertheless radically enhanced his playing and sight-reading skills." John Link (talk) 15:52, 17 January 2010 (UTC)

Some idiot has added comments about his album in the 1990s section saying its 4.5 to 5 stars, superb album etc. I've marked it as POV. IT needs to be removed —Preceding unsigned comment added by 124.190.210.81 (talk) 09:20, 21 January 2010 (UTC)

Which came first - Devotion or My Goal's Beyond?
Over the years I've read conflicting information, even now in Wikipedia. This John McLaughlin page says My Goal's Beyond came out in 1971, after Devotion. The separate pages for those albums say My Goal's Beyond was the 3rd album released in June 1970, and Devotion was the 4th album released in September 1970. PatConolly (talk) 06:54, 5 May 2010 (UTC) Ok, according to www.Billboard.com/#/archive, Devotion was reviewed in the issue dated July 25, 1970. My Goal's Beyond was reviewed in the issue dated August 21, 1971. I'm actually too timid at this time to modify Wikipedia articles, though. PatConolly (talk) 08:12, 5 March 2011 (UTC)

Cobham and McLaughlin together for the first time since "the band" broke up?
"McLaughlin performed with Mahavishnu Orchestra drummer Billy Cobham at the 44th Montreux Jazz Festival, in Montreux, Switzerland, on 2 July 2010, for the first time since the band split up."

The impression is certainly that "the band" is the first Mahavishnu Orchestra, but well after that breakup,they had both collaborated on "John McLaughlin - Electric Guitarist." It is possible that the tracks featuring both were from old sessions, but my impression is that that is not the case.

In case this helps anyone with expertise work out a chronology here, liner notes indicate the following about the recording of the tracks included on that album: Recorded at Sound Mixer Studios, New York, New York and at Devonshire Studios, North Hollywood, California. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.151.36.65 (talk) 06:56, 22 March 2011 (UTC)

I agree. Here is what the article states: 2000s: "McLaughlin performed with Mahavishnu Orchestra drummer Billy Cobham at the 44th Montreux Jazz Festival, in Montreux, Switzerland, on 2 July 2010, for the first time since the band split up."

Here is proof that it's wrong: "Electric Guitarist" ? --Armins (talk) 09:42, 13 August 2011 (UTC)

Awards
I have removed the "Awards" section - it looked completely retarded, creating a whole new section of the article to list just one, singular award... how silly...this is what the markup looked like: " ==Awards== In 1994, John McLaughlin was granted the Miles Davis Award by the Montreal International Jazz Festival."

Let me be clear - there is no need for a whole section to list this one award - especially when McLaughlin has won NUMBERIOUS awards.. inclduing this one : In 2010, John McLaughlin was granted the Škoda Award by JazzAhead. This is their highest honor and is considered a life-time achievement award. (He also took a pretty nice bit of cash with that one as well - which he donated to Palestine to fund a music therapy program!!!) ....and a bunch of Grammys, etc... Feel free to compile a whole list or at least a better list - not just one award- of his awards and add the award section back to the article - if I have more time I will do it... for now the article is better without that bit.. just looked silly - a whole section to list one award, especially when McLaughlin has won tons of awards that carry more weight than the one that was listed anyway... --Armins (talk) 06:30, 5 December 2011 (UTC)

Influences
I'm not clear how the Frank Zappa quote {with no citation} pertains to the subject heading "Influences". And while I understand that Chick Corea recorded with McLaughlin, I have the same basic issue with that quote. These are opinions. So what. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.101.69.226 (talk) 01:30, 17 February 2012 (UTC)

The references should not be that hard to find. Both chick Corea's band R.T.F. and Zappa were influences by the Mahavishnu Orchestra. The influence was filtered through the record corporations that effectively owned these artists who saw that what the M.O was doing was tremendous opportunity to sell albums and make money. Zappa hiring whichever guitar virtuoso he hired was a result of touring with the MO, which he hated. The MO would open shows for Zappa and this caused a lot of problems and animosity because, well, you just imaging having the MO open for your band and having to play after that.. as you can imagine the crowds were a bit dispointed... just an opinion or maybe a fact, but the MO was clearly more dynamic and musically talented than Zappa band. As far as Chick goes, they played together in the Miles Davis band.. Miles wanted John to do his own thing so he "hooked him up" with the resources to start his own band (backing of record corporation) when this corporation saw the success of the MO, they got greedy and got other guys from the same circle to start these kinds of similar bands... "fusion" "shred guitar" etc... these genres are all creations of record companies looking to make money and in this case it all started with McLaughlin. This stuff is pretty well documented, someone just needs to find sources if they want to include it in the article. Armins (talk) 11:01, 23 July 2012 (UTC)

Accent
I've recently seen a TV interview with McLaughlin: why does he have a teutonic accent? 86.17.211.191 23:04, 1 June 2007 (UTC)

I took a listen to several interviews with McLaughlin that are available on YouTube. Knowing he spent his early years in Doncaster, I would have expected him to have an accent more redolent of Sean Bean than Jurgen Prochnow. But teutonic it is. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 208.63.161.2 (talk) 19:50, 29 August 2010 (UTC)

In his 1982 interview with Mclaughlin, Robert Fripp stated that his accent wavered between American, French and Indian! In Bathed in Lightning, in the mid 70s the MO sound engineer describes him as "lapsing back into his Doncaster accent" at times. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.77.80.37 (talk) 09:59, 16 February 2015 (UTC)

Hendrix?
I've been hearing rumors of tapes of a McLaughlin/Hendrix jam session since 1974. The actual circumstances of the jam and who was in possession of the tapes changed with every telling. These sessions were always "just about" to be commercially released, "maybe next year". Here we are, 40 years later and I'm still hearing the same ever-changing ephemeral story, which by now I have come to conclude is an Urban Legend.

No citation for this information is given in the article, and no reference.

I'm OK with leaving in a statement to the effect that "McLaughlin is rumored to have made a jam session tape with Jimi Hendrix, in the 1960's, but the alleged recording has never surfaced".

But unless someone can produce either a definitive citation for the existence of this tape, or an audio file of music from the tape itself, I don't see how this information can legitimately be treated as factual. We would all like to imagine McLaughlin and Hendrix jamming together, but if it didn't happen, it didn't happen. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.95.43.249 (talk) 00:20, 9 July 2014 (UTC)


 * It's no rumor - bootleg copies of this jam session (which is all it was) exist (I have it) - it was just a casual, UNspectacular jam by two tired musicians (after a long flight) who respected each other having a little fun. Jimi could play quite flat if he was tired or uninspired, and the quality is pretty bad overall anyway.  John played an amplified acoustic guitar.  It was (quite correctly) rejected for commercial release by McLaughlin, when the owners of the tapes approached him.  I can only imagine that Hendrix would have hit the roof it it had been officially released.  It is interesting only in a vague historical context, and music lovers will hear it once and shelve it. HammerFilmFan (talk) 22:09, 4 June 2015 (UTC)

needs work
Many parts of McLaughlin's bio need additions/expansions - for example, no mention of his first wife Eve, or the album they recorded together, or her contribution to My Goals Beyond, etc. HammerFilmFan (talk) 22:20, 4 June 2015 (UTC)

External links modified
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Only 49th?
Re: " In 2003, he [McLaughlin] was ranked 49th in Rolling Stone magazine's list of the "100 Greatest Guitarists of All Time."

It's time that Wikipedia cease citing Rolling Stone. Rolling Stone's writers and editors clearly know next to nothing about music. Rolling Stone is essentially a gossip magazine rather than a music magazine, more akin to People than Downbeat. (In case you're wondering, among the pathetic guitarists that Rolling Stone thinks outrank McLaughlin--far outrank McLaughlin, mind you--we find Keith Richards, Johnny Ramone, and Neil Young. There isn't a single classical guitarist on the list; apparently Rolling Stone is completely unaware that classical guitar even exists. John McLaughlin and Les Paul are the only jazz guitarists on the list. "All time" starts somewhere in the mid-fifties.) TheScotch (talk) 08:29, 3 March 2017 (UTC)
 * Thanks for your opinion. When it gets published in a widely-respected music journal (like Rolling Stone), then we can use it in this article.  Until then, it is worth as much as any other random person's opinion.  Thanks for sharing, though. -- Jayron 32 13:12, 3 March 2017 (UTC)
 * Indeed, JM can do circles around Keith Richards, Johnny Ramone, and Neil Young—who are all absolutely awesome and very unique and expressive guitarists, don't get me wrong. Just wouldn't rank them as guitar virtuosos, not on the same level as JM. Maybe Guitar World has a more guitary list. El_C 13:30, 3 March 2017 (UTC)
 * If you have other recognitions, please add them to the article with appropriate citations. It would improve the article.  -- Jayron 32 13:44, 3 March 2017 (UTC)
 * If only I could figure out what's going on on the interface at Guitar World "Readers' Top 100." El_C 13:59, 3 March 2017 (UTC)
 * Personally I fully agree with that it would be a great improvement of this article, if a source is removed that lists Ramone, Young, Lennon, Lou Reed and Prince among guitarists (!), let alone among the greatest (!!) of all time (!!!). - DVdm (talk) 14:07, 3 March 2017 (UTC)
 * Your opinion is worth as much as the reliable source which has published it. DO you have a reliable source to include in the article?  If you believe that Rolling Stone is not a reliable source, please start a discussion at WP:RSN to have its reliability assessed.  -- Jayron 32 14:09, 3 March 2017 (UTC)
 * On the other hand, Stills is there, and Winter, Zappa, Clapton, Harrison, and some others, so...
 * Yes, it's just my opinion. I just had to IAR, and couldn't help venting it. Sorry about that . - DVdm (talk) 14:18, 3 March 2017 (UTC)
 * The Guitar World list has McLaughlin at #63. See here.  You have to page through the pictures in the slide show.  But he's #63, lower ranked than Rolling Stone's #49 I may add.  -- Jayron 32 14:09, 3 March 2017 (UTC)


 * Since the OP brought up Downbeat, I've included one of their recent assessments. They have no list by rank order, but he's listed among the top 75 in an unranked list from 2009.  -- Jayron 32 14:20, 3 March 2017 (UTC)

Other artists influenced by McLaughlin
I have compiled quotes from various artists saying that McLaughlin was an influence on them, but seeing that the section is already developed and that my level of English is not excellent I do not dare to insert them, so I leave them here in case someone wants to do it.

Chris Haskett of Rollins Band: Nels Cline of Wilco: Michael Angelo Batio: Electronic musician Rustie Stephen Egerton of Descendents David Immerglück of Counting Crows Paul Lemos of Controlled Bleeding

--Ojo del tigre (talk) 23:32, 14 March 2017 (UTC)

External links modified
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Equipment
On the back cover of The Inner Mounting Flame, he is shown with a Gibson Les Paul. Bubba73 You talkin' to me? 03:11, 3 May 2019 (UTC)