Talk:John Reid, Baron Reid of Cardowan

POV
This article is littered with biased, non-wiki language. Here is a small selection


 * During this time Reid showed himself to be a tough negotiator and hard political fighter.
 * the thereafter ubiquitous description as "a safe pair of hands".
 * with some commentators going so far as to describe his success in cutting military expenditure at the same time as winning over the defence chiefs as "brilliant".
 * Having impressed at both Transport and Defence
 * But, so far as 10 Downing Street was concerned, Reid had gone a long way to delivering the rarest of political commodities - success in Northern Ireland
 * At the Home Office Reid hit the ground running

Please can someone change this.

The article also has no criticism of Reid whatsoever. This can't be right. cagliost (talk) 10:41, 3 June 2010 (UTC)


 * I am not too happy with my attempt at merging the first two items above, and it needs further improvement. I agree the article is noticeably "non-wiki".-84user (talk) 15:29, 18 September 2010 (UTC)


 * With this edit I have removed a copyright violation and also some uncited stuff, adding a plea in the edit summary for someone to check the whole article for other possible violations. -84user (talk) 16:21, 18 September 2010 (UTC)

Can someone change this
"Born in Bellshill, North Lanarkshire, Scotland to RC parents"

To "RC" parents? Whats wrong with putting Catholic? Outside of Glasgow I wouldn't say "RC" is a commonly used term for a Catholic. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 203.87.17.34 (talk) 05:35, 24 May 2008 (UTC)

Next PM?
In today's Today programme someone (I think it was John Sergeant) speculated that Reid was being groomed by Blair to be the Blair wing's candidate to replace Blair as PM. I don't propose to add this to the article (one off-the-cuff remark by someone who I'm not sure said it doesn't make the "encyclopedic" cut by a wide margin) but if it's true we'll hear the same rumour bandied around for the next six months. -- Finlay McWalter | Talk 11:06, 6 May 2006 (UTC)


 * ...which of course the article already mentions. Never mind. :) -- Finlay McWalter | Talk 11:18, 6 May 2006 (UTC)

POV
Removed the sentence on reid's role as 'a tony's henchman' and someone who joins departments fucks them up and then leaves. Aside from poor wording, this is a clear breach of NPOV. It may well be a fair assessment of reid's career of late, but it was not even stated as a reported opinion, let alone given a proper citation.

I think that one problem that we have to consider with references to the BBC is that often people are referencing an opinion. All political commentary is a political opinion and I think that we have to be careful not to discredit personal opinion if it is based on his political performance. I also think that any Guardian citations should be discredited as well!!!

Links to Serbian war crime indictees
John Reid was a close friend of Karadzic and Mladic. Even after war ravaged the Balkans in the 90s, Reid visited the region and met with them (before he was a Minister). Private Eye recently speculated that if the outstanding indictees are eventually brought before the ICTY, then Reid will be called by far-right genocidal war criminals as a character witness. So don't put money on him as "the next PM". I'll go through my Private Eyes and provide the issue number and date. 86.17.246.75 00:50, 20 July 2006 (UTC)

Communist History
I don't want to be accused of being a McArthyite but might readers of this article be interested to know that John Reid had a had left background: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/shared/spl/hi/uk_politics/03/the_cabinet/html/def_sec.stm Also should it not be stated for completeness that his mentioned thesis in economic history was a marxist text: http://www.guardian.co.uk/Northern_Ireland/Story/0,2763,659705,00.html Valueofnothing 13:23, 18 August 2006 (UTC)
 * His past is already in the article - "I used to be a Communist. I used to believe in Santa Claus" Catchpole 13:39, 18 August 2006 (UTC)

Doctor Title
There seems to be a brewing controversy over whether John Reid should be referred to as "Dr.". The fact of the matter is that, while some might find his research subject trite, anyone with a PhD is entitled to call themselves "Doctor" and it is not only his correct title but the one he prefers to be known by. The fact that "thousands of other" people have PhDs but don't refer to themselves as "Dr." is of little relevant. That is their choice. Shotlandiya

Oops. I've just read the rules on academic titles and realised I was in the wrong about this one. Apologies, and title removed. Shotlandiya


 * The BBC refers to him as Dr, and so do those setting up the news conferences. 82.3.85.125 22:07, 11 September 2006 (UTC)

Photo - Hm.
Dont you think that the picture of Mr Reid should be in front of a British flag, or none at all? Not an American flag. It just doesn't seem right. It's a biography of a British politician :P 82.3.85.125 22:07, 11 September 2006 (UTC)
 * He is in front of the Union Jack. The US flag is next to it. Catchpole 08:58, 12 September 2006 (UTC)
 * This problem is likely to arise quite a bit given the difficulty of finding free images of UK politicians. One of the main sources are official photos taken by US Federal Government employees, as these are usually public domain. Backgrounds of such photos are likely to contain US flags! WJBscribe 07:12, 23 November 2006 (UTC)

It seems to be quite a trend to use pictures of British politicians in American political surroundings. Minister for Europe, Geoff Hoon, has also been shown at a 'Pentagon press briefing' as his main image. Are the American users showing a liking for our politicians?!
 * See my explanation above. It is simply a result of the fact that official photos of members of the British government from gov websites are subject to Crown Copyright, whereas photos taken by US Federal Departments during official visits are public domain. As the most free image must be used, those US images are likely to domiante for a while. See Ruth Kelly for an exception, where someone kindly uploaded a copyright-free photo they took of her onto Flickr. -WJBscribe (WJB talk) 16:07, 10 December 2006 (UTC)

Formatting of page
Anyway, hope people find it an improvement. WJBscribe 09:02, 23 November 2006 (UTC)
 * I've reformatted the page so its no longer mostly made up of a disorganised block of text. The sections and subsections allow for detail on the numerous positions John Reid has held.
 * I haven't removed any of the old info but have shuffled it around a bit so the order is more logical.
 * I thought the closer view of his face used at Cabinet of the UK was clearer for the infobox. The old photo is now used to illustrate the Defence Secretary section.
 * I've also checked the references and added dates.
 * There were various pieces of info that didn't fit well so have put them in a 'trivia' section. Not ideal, I guess.

No mention of recent scandals
The section describing his work as Home Secretary looks very biased in light of all the criticism he's attracted recently. 83.67.217.254 10:09, 28 January 2007 (UTC)
 * No, not biased, simply waiting on events. It's easy to post any and all criticisms about people here, but there are rules about writing biographies. Look, the guy is going to be out of a job in a few days, so we may as well wait for that and write it all up neat and tidy! Cheers, Neale Neale Monks 12:34, 28 January 2007 (UTC)

John Weed
"The episode has left some in the media to label John Reid as John Weed." This should have examples from notable media. I already removed editorialising on the subject - David Gerard 14:17, 28 January 2007 (UTC)


 * http://www.sundaymail.co.uk/news/tm_objectid=17011719&method=full&siteid=64736&headline=john-weed--name_page.html 80.47.100.115 16:59, 6 February 2007 (UTC)

Current photo
Stars & Stripes background to the current photo is a little strange, given that he's a UK politician. Does anyone have an alternative picture? -- Tremolo 01:01, 30 March 2007 (UTC)
 * This is discussed above. Agreed, it would be an improvement - unfortunately the reason behind the current photo is simply due to the automatic public domain nature of photos produced by employees of the US government (as opposed to Crown Copyright) If these politicians had any sense they would provide PD images that could be used in place. -- Blorg 21:08, 5 May 2007 (UTC)

Blog as source?
Is this blog entry by Iain Dale a suitable source for the paragraph that it references?--Bookandcoffee 22:12, 18 May 2007 (UTC)

YOu Tube link
1 link commented - Possibly Radio recording - No clear indication uploader has rights to material or has connection with the production entitites responsible for it. Sfan00 IMG (talk) 12:59, 20 November 2007 (UTC)

Recent Edit
I have rigourously edited this entry today. There were too many comments ascribing superfluous positive slants/opinions on this person - e.g. "....Reid was an obvious choice for", or "...due to his impressive performance he was..." it seems like the entry was compiled by one of John Reid's staff or family members with the intention of over-emphasising his achievements and abilities. Nobody's perfect - let's stick to facts. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 58.153.125.90 (talk) 13:29, 20 June 2008 (UTC)

Bot report : Found duplicate references !
In the last revision I edited, I found duplicate named references, i.e. references sharing the same name, but not having the same content. Please check them, as I am not able to fix them automatically :) DumZiBoT (talk) 23:26, 8 August 2008 (UTC)
 * "c" :
 * Profile: John Reid - The Blairite bruiser Find Articles | January 27, 2001
 * "g" :
 * The Independent profile
 * Details of key John Reid votes by The Guardian
 * "f" :
 * Daily Telegraph 13/06/2004 Telegraph Profile
 * BBC News: Timeline of Afghan hijacker case
 * BBC News: Timeline of Afghan hijacker case

Shouldn't there be a section like this?

 * 1. Participation in a common plan or conspiracy for the accomplishment of a crime against peace.
 * 2. Planning, initiating and waging wars of aggression and other crimes against peace.
 * 3. War crimes.
 * 4. Crimes against humanity.Keith-264 (talk) 17:05, 20 January 2011 (UTC)

no Adam4267 (talk) 21:40, 21 January 2011 (UTC)

He voted for the Iraq aggression.Keith-264 (talk) 23:13, 21 January 2011 (UTC)

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University
Reid did not "decide not to go to university" at 16. He could not have gone at that age, and in any case he did not have 3 A-Levels. (86.140.123.95 (talk) 01:43, 1 September 2018 (UTC))
 * Please provide reliable sources to support your claim. -  FlightTime  ( open channel ) 01:45, 1 September 2018 (UTC)
 * People go to university at 18, and they have to have three A-Levels. (86.140.123.95 (talk) 01:46, 1 September 2018 (UTC))
 * Sources ? -  FlightTime  ( open channel ) 01:47, 1 September 2018 (UTC)


 * Please read the citation provided at the end of the paragraph, which specifically states "He didn't want to go to university and instead worked in a series of jobs in the late Sixties including construction work on the then new oil pipeline and one in insurance which opened his eyes politically." Softlavender (talk) 01:52, 1 September 2018 (UTC)

Joining the Labour Party
"he was assigned to the tenements in the East End of Glasgow after the city was hit by storms in late-1968 and saw poverty of a kind he did not know existed. Soon after this experience, he joined the Labour Party." However, the article says he didn't join the Labour Party until 1979. He didn't even join the Communist Party until 1972. So unless there's any evidence that he joined Labour in the late 1960s ("soon after"), I would remove the last sentence there. In any case, the reference to the Irish Independent is a dead link. --TrottieTrue (talk) 00:27, 10 December 2020 (UTC)