Talk:John Rocha

Removal of Citation box
I suggest after the addition of a number of references, five at the moment. This is more that sufficient for the size of the article and this box can be removed. If anyone opposes this please feel free to reply and explain. If not, I can or someone else can remove the box around the 19/11/2010/ --NorthernCounties (talk) 10:25, 22 November 2010 (UTC)
 * As per above, removed box today --NorthernCounties (talk) 16:36, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

Nationality
John Rocha holds a British passport (see source). There is no source available to suggest that Rocha has naturalised as an Irish citizen. Qwerta369 (talk) 14:59, 4 December 2010 (UTC)


 * Here's a UK article that suggests otherwise... here --NorthernCounties (talk) 17:59, 4 December 2010 (UTC)


 * You've linked to a non-credible piece of text written (presumably) by someone who works for the visitlondon.com website, where Rocha is described as an Irish fashion designer. This is likely because Rocha established his career in Ireland and currently lives there.  It does not change the fact that Rocha is a British national who holds a British passport.  This is sourced.  There is no evidence to suggest that Rocha has naturalised as an Irish citizen.  If you can find a reliable source which verifies your claim that Rocha is also an Irish citizen, feel free to add Irish nationality to his British nationality in the article.  Meanwhile, please refrain removing sourced text from this article. Qwerta369 (talk) 14:50, 5 December 2010 (UTC)


 * Please don't add a demeaning welcome note on my talkpage. I'm am well versed in using Wikipedia. There are two references used, and the article still states that he is british born. As in many other articles regarding other nationalities, which can state "American born, British" etc etc. Please find credible reason before reverting, or editors who support your goal. I hope there is no underlying anti-irishness in your editing. I see you've been involved with Shayne Ward. --NorthernCounties (talk) 15:07, 5 December 2010 (UTC)


 * Then you should know not to remove sourced text and replace it with fiction. Rocha is a British national (unclear whether British citizen or BN(O), but holds a British passport nonetheless).  The text in the source states "He's a charmer, this plump and comfortable exile who clings to his British passport on his endless travels, despite the scorn of his (Irish-passport-bearing) children and his wife Odette.".  Rocha is not "British-born" as you claim, though he is a British national, as per the source.  Credible reason is that text in Wikipedia must be verifiable.  You have not presented at single source which backs up your claim that Rocha has naturalised as an Irish citizen.  Until you are able to, please do not continue to vandalise Wikipedia.  Shane Ward has nothing to do with this article.  Please do not suggest any anti-Irish sentiment on my part.  To do so would be ridiculous.  You have no idea of whether or not I am an Irish citizen myself.  Either way, it is irrelevant.  Rocha is not an Irish citizen.  Please refrain from suggesting that he is. Qwerta369 (talk) 15:15, 5 December 2010 (UTC)


 * As my edit summary states I reaffirm that he married an irish girl... by default he has Irish nationality. He was born in Hong Kong while it was British. Your ref does not mention a British Passport. Pleasse don't break 3RR! My references are valid. --NorthernCounties (talk) 15:29, 5 December 2010 (UTC)


 * Marriage to an Irish citizen does not confer Irish citizenship - naturalisation is required. You have not provided a source to backup your claim that Rocha is an Irish citizen, yet you continue to claim in the article that he is.  Once again, the ref currently in the article states: "He's a charmer, this plump and comfortable exile who clings to his British passport on his endless travels, despite the scorn of his (Irish-passport-bearing) children and his wife Odette.". If you revert again you will be reported. Qwerta369 (talk) 15:32, 5 December 2010 (UTC)


 * This is not in the Scots ref that you've provided. I have searched that article, furthermore your anti irish contribution history grows boring... --NorthernCounties (talk) 15:34, 5 December 2010 (UTC)

The first supposed ref is the homepage of www.johnrocha.ie. Nowhere on that page, or anywhere else on the site, is it claimed that Rocha is an Irish citizen. The second ref is an article on www.irishcentral.com - hardly a reliable source. See WP:IRS. Please provide a reliable source to back up the claim that Rocha is an Irish citizen, or remove the text. Qwerta369 (talk) 09:07, 12 January 2011 (UTC)


 * Ok, you win this one... I don't want to further the debate. (And more honestly can't be bothered to search for ref's). Validation needed can stay. --NorthernCounties (talk) 11:13, 12 January 2011 (UTC)


 * Hi NorthernCounties. Thanks for providing those additional three sources.  They indeed refer to Rocha as "Irish fashion designer" (or similar phraseology).  Still, they are not evidence that Rocha has at any time become an Irish citizen.  He is certainly an Irish resident, as are the numerous Polish and Nigerian workers who live in Ireland, but that doesn't make him "Irish" - he is not a citizen.  Perhaps those articles refer to Rocha as being Irish because he is based in Ireland?  Maybe they put two and two together and make five. Qwerta369 (talk) 15:27, 12 January 2011 (UTC)


 * Hi Qwerta369. Perhaps they do refer to that or perhaps they don't. We can't be sure. It is plausible that the article refering to his British Passport is out of date as it comes from circa 2001. And I did ensure that I provided a link from a reputable British Paper, which coined him as Irish. Anyway, I still believe that in the current state "British born, Irish" is NPOV and reflects the various contradicting articles. --NorthernCounties (talk) 15:51, 12 January 2011 (UTC)

Verification tag
There are 5 reliable sources used to back up the claim the addition of the tag is pointy to say the least. Mo ainm ~Talk  11:12, 6 April 2011 (UTC)
 * Wrong. There is not a single source which backs up the fictitious claim that Rocha is an Irish citizen.  John Rocha has at no stage naturalised as an Irish citizen.  This subject is now boring me.  No wonder Wikipedia is increasingly being called Wrongipedia.  I'm about to edit the article on behalf of John Rocha.  Please do not remove fact and replace with fiction. Qwerta369 (talk) 12:04, 6 April 2011 (UTC)

Resolution of nationality dispute
Folks, I have changed the first sentence of the lede to:

John Rocha, (born 23 August 1953, Hong Kong) is a Hong Kong born fashion designer of Chinese (mother) and Portuguese (father) descent who is based in Ireland.

I hope this pleases everyone and addresses all concerns. Qwerta369 (talk) 10:21, 7 April 2011 (UTC)
 * I would prefer not to be drawn any further into this dispute, but it might be useful if editors considered WP:OPENPARA before making any knee-jerk responses. RashersTierney (talk) 10:37, 7 April 2011 (UTC)
 * To be pedantic Qwerta369 it was another revert your 5th on the article in 24 hours and maybe you should have raised it on the talk before you reverted again. Mo ainm  ~Talk  20:22, 7 April 2011 (UTC)

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