Talk:Johnny Mathis/Archive 1

Birthplace
Several sources, including Answers.com/Wikipedia, and Mathis' own website, show his birthplace as Gilmer, Texas. Yet for years, The World Almanac has shown his birthplace as San Francisco, California. Clearly, he was raised in the Bay Area, but is Texas indeed his birthplace?


 * RESPONSE: Mathis' birthplace

Gilmer, Texas is indeed Johnny Mathis' birthplace as he has publicly acknowledged this on several occasions on television and in interviews. His family relocated to San Francisco from Gilmer, Texas when Mathis was around four or five years of age. Please see biographical book enclosed in the compilation, The Music of Johnny Mathis (Columbia/Legacy Records, Catalog No. 48932, released in 1993). el jay

Net worth?
I'd love to see some sourcing for the statement that he is one of the wealthiest entertainers. Also, if such a statement could be made then there is likely a figure for his net worth? The reason that I am sceptical is that it seems odd for one of the wealthiest entertainers to still be playing no-name casinos in 2006.

RESPONSE Mathis plays anywhere people want to see him and not for the money anymore,its been like that for years except he has reduced his concerts as he gets older, I did read some 15 years ago he had amassed several hundred million dollars with shrewd investments, for example in real estate in NewYork he purchased in the early 60s.It wouldnt surprise me if he was one of the wealthiest, hes been performing over 50 years and hes always been one of the worlds highest paid performers.

Check out www.networth.com says hes worth over $400 million dollars. wow, — Preceding unsigned comment added by [17 June 2012 (UTC)

First black millionaire?
This article incorrectly states that Johnny Mathis became America's first black millionaire in 1960. William Alexander Leidesdorff (1810-1848) holds that distinction, and a more popular figure, Madame C.J. Walker (1867-1919) was America's first FEMALE millionaire.

RESPONSE: William Alexander Leidesdorff was the first black BUSINESSMAN to become a millionare. Madame C.J. Walker was America's first FEMALE millionaire from hair products manufacturing. Johnny Mathis is the first black ENTERTAINER to become a millionare. All three statements are correct because of their specific distinctions

It is only correct if it says Mathis was "the first black entertainer to become a millionaire", without the world "entertainer" in the wording, it is not correct.

Russell and Mathis went to different schools
Bill Russell and Johnny Mathis attended different colleges. Bill Russell attended USF, University of San Francisco, a private Jesuit Catholic school. Johnny Mathis attended San Francisco State University, a public school which is part of the California State University system. Therefore Russell and Mathis were never teammates on the same college basketball team.

RESPONSE: Mathis never said he and Bill Russell played on the same basketball team. He has, however, played basketball with Russell and K. C. Jones. Russell is a friend of Mathis' from high school. el jay

RESPONSE: In the Wikapedia bio for Mr. Mathis it orginally stated that he and Mr. Russell played basketball in college, since I wrote the fact that they attended different schools, the bio was changed to reflect that they did not play together in college.
 * but it still devotes a lengthy sentence to mathis having broken russell's school high jump record at sfsu. at least that's how it reads to me. if that isn't the intention, it needs clarification.Toyokuni3 (talk) 23:58, 18 December 2008 (UTC)

Career
In your article about Johnny Mathis you say that he did not start his recording career until 1956. Yet, I vividly recall, while I was in Basic Training at Lackland Air Force base in San Antonio, Texas, going to the service club on Sundays and dancing with the local girls. One of the most memorable recordings we danced to was from Johnny Mathis. This was the first time I had ever heard of him, but his voice captivated me. I am fairly positive that the song was "Chances Are." The song I am not 100% on -- Johnny Mathis in 1955, I am 1000% sure.

I graduated from high school June 5, 1955 and one week later went into the Air Force. I was in Basic Training from June through August, 1955. And that is when I first danced to a Johnny Mathis recording. How could this have happened if he did not start recording until 1956?

Appreciate your help on this. Thank you and God bless,

Bill Gray Southern California

RESPONSE: Mathis' debut album was released in 1956. Allmusic.com confirms this. Drmagic 07:01, 11 June 2006 (UTC)

Sexuality
The only source claiming that Mathis is gay is a 1982 article in Us Magazine. This is about 1 step above a supermarket tabloid. There are many other, more lengthy articles and interviews by and about Mathis (e.g., Current Biography, The New Yorker) and they either claim he is heterosexual or make no reference to his sexual preference. At the very least, Mathis should be removed from the gay/lesbian categories on Wikipedia. My version of the article includes reference to the Us Magazine article and qualifies it with what I just said. Perhaps even this is going too far and there should be no reference at all to sexual preference unless the claimants can come up with more evidence. I would like to hear what others think.Bellczar 01:50, 19 December 2005 (UTC)


 * Tend to agree. I think you've phrased it decently in the article but I can see the argument for removing it entirely and keeping it to this Talk page until/unless other sources become available. I definitely agree that he should be removed from the Gay Musicians category. Cheers, Ian Rose 00:51, 25 February 2006 (UTC)

On Sept 14, 2006 edition of "The Insider", Pat O'Brien commented on the 1982 report outing Johnny Mathis. O'Brien also had a soundbite from Mathis'impromptu performance at an engagement with Whitney Houston and Clive Davis. In another soundbite Mathis responded that his fans had accepted him, regardless of what's published.


 * For years it has been suspect that Johnny Mathis may be . He has fathered a few children from his relationships with women in the late 1950s and 1960s. In the seventies he publicaly admitted in an interview of having been involved with the mistress of the Chicago mafia boss. That relationship lasted just over two years till 1978. His advisors suggested he end the involvement because of dangers that could arise due to her conection to the crime world.


 * Mathis has stated on Entertainment Tonight in 2000, "I'm fortunate to have lots of fans around the world that know me and the quality of my music, they don't care much about what's written or said."

I have shuffled around to add back in a paragraph to the Personal life section, which was well referenced (Us magazine may be "about 1 step above a supermarket tabloid", but it was a direct interview which he again later comments on) on this subject. However, I noted that it was removed from 16 August on wards in this version by annonymous user 67.70.63.167 - as were the first two para's above removed by 81.132.41.113. I think Johnny has a right to privacy, and the paragraph makes it clear that he's happy with his situation - and that after he made the first comment, he was attacked. I find it implausable not to include a series of good references in an article about Johnny, but being encyclopedic we can't say therefore he is of any particular orientation - just as the man himself wants it, apparently! Rgds, - Trident13 23:15, 20 September 2006 (UTC)


 * US magazine is barely above the tabloids as far as credibility goes. This is suppose to be an encyclopedia and therefore should deal with his achievements. I think sexual references should be removed from the personal section and be discussed in this section for those who want to. Giving people their privacy is the decent thing.

I realize that 'US' magazine isn't necessarily the NYTimes, but (my recollection is that) Mr. Mathis commented openly about this. Treating it as a somewhat disreputable piece of gossip (as opposed to the discussion of his heterosexuality) is in fact disreputable and venal. This issue ABSOLUTELY should be put back in the biography. Anything less shows the writer's hypocracy and prejudice and nothing else, Gay isn't gossip or bad. Simple as that.

I agree that gay is not bad, but we still do live in a homophobic society. Gay or bisexual people have a right to decide for themselves to come out publically or not. An implication that he is a homosexual in a biographical description is not fair to Mr. Mathis, unless he has defined himself as such. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.211.232.52 (talk) 05:13, 18 July 2008 (UTC)

Quotations
It's not clear if the only citation in the section refers to the last quote or all of them. Either way, I don't think that Brainyquote.com fills the criteria of WP:RELY:
 * Reliable sources are authors or publications regarded as trustworthy or authoritative in relation to the subject at hand. Reliable publications are those with an established structure for fact-checking and editorial oversight. The reliability of a source depends on the context: A world-renowned mathematician may not be a reliable source about biology. However, the author of a source may be reliable outside her/his primary field if s/he has become recognized as having expertise in that secondary area of study. In general, an article should use the most reliable and appropriate published sources to cover all majority and significant-minority published views, in line with Neutral point of view.


 * Articles should rely on reliable, third-party published sources with a reputation for fact-checking and accuracy. Sources should be appropriate to the claims made: exceptional claims require exceptional sources. All articles must adhere to Wikipedia's neutrality policy, fairly representing all majority and significant-minority viewpoints that have been published by reliable sources, in rough proportion to the prominence of each view.


 * In general, the most reliable sources are peer-reviewed journals and books published in university presses; university-level textbooks; magazines, journals, and books published by respected publishing houses; and mainstream newspapers. As a rule of thumb, the greater the degree of scrutiny involved in checking facts, analyzing legal issues, and scrutinizing the evidence and arguments of a particular work, the more reliable it is.


 * Academic and peer-reviewed publications are highly valued and usually the most reliable sources in areas where they are available, such as history, medicine and science. Material from reliable non-academic sources may also be used in these areas, particularly if they are respected mainstream publications. The appropriateness of any source always depends on the context. Where there is disagreement between sources, their views should be clearly attributed in the text.


 * Sources with a poor reputation for fact-checking or with no editorial oversight should only be used in articles about the sources themselves. Articles about such sources should not repeat any contentious claims the source has made about third parties, unless those claims have also been published by reliable sources.

I don't think Brainyquote has a reputation for doing any fact-checking or editorial oversight, and all they say in their "about us" section is that they make their money off of ad placement and assert copyright ownership of all material on their site. My recommendation is that if other sources aren't cited that this section be removed. Toddstreat1 06:06, 16 September 2007 (UTC)

Mathis's ethinicity
Whether Mr. Mathis is "African-American" or of both African-American and Caucasian ancestry is not encyclopedic. You won't find ethnic distinctions of any sort in the introduction of any article in Compton's or Encarta. Mathis's achievements throughout his life are top priority to be considered encyclopedic. Marcus2 12:41, 4 January 2006 (UTC)

RESPONSE: so are you going to alter EVERY SINGLE entry on Wikipedia that describes someone as African-American? i don't think so. Drmagic 06:29, 31 January 2006 (UTC)

RESPONSE: Well, he may be new to Wikipedia. Wiki clearly has a strange fixation with ethnicity and race: e.g. Andy Garcia is described as a "Cuban-American actor." I don't know about you, but if I lived in China, or India, or France, or Israel, and I wanted to learn about Andy, I think he would be more accurately described as an "American actor." But Wiki almost always mentions someone's ethnicity, no matter how irrelevant. I'm surprised we don't see Bill Clinton described as a "Baptist President of the United States." It's not quite the same as saying Barbra Streisand is a "Jewish-American entertainer," although I think that is troublesome as well. Her faith or ethnicity can always be mentioned in the article, but in the opening sentence of identification, strange... 66.108.4.183 09:49, 17 August 2006 (UTC) Allen Roth


 * It's not a fixation, Allen Roth, but a fact. Not acknowledging race or heritage is also odd since non-Americans don't necessarily adopt the "melting pot" approach. For example, Canadians like myself take on a "mosaic approach" which celebrates the harmony of cultures. Therefore, coming to the article with the sole purpose of ascertaining whether or not Mathis was of African-heritage and not finding any mention of it until the Categories hyperlink section in the footer is disconcerting. It gave me the impression that it was being purposefully avoided for reasons unknown. Not even his own online biography - as quoted on his eponymous website - give an indication of where his mother or father were born, however. Maltiti2005 (talk) 20:54, 14 December 2008 (UTC)

It's entirely proper to mention ethnicity, but in the first sentence? The leads for Garth Brooks and Frank Sinatra, to site but two examples, do not state that they are "Caucasian" singers. I think Mr. Roth may be onto something...Balavent (talk) 07:12, 2 July 2009 (UTC)

I also think it's very import to mention ethnicity. For everyone in General. If people have issues with their race that's their issue. I'ts especially important with him, as it's hard to tell. He dosnt even look black to me on a first look...had to go check his old pictures. I even thought he might even be Greek. Also for other non white and black people, it's also important for them to know. I just thought of this....in the 50's and early 60's he probably "passed" as white that why he became one so popular and made money early on his own merit? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.10.151.180 (talk) 02:33, 29 July 2009 (UTC) It may also be important to mention his race because of photographic practices used in the early-mid 1900s in which black performers were cross-lit with a strong light to make their skin tones look lighter, even making them look white. By removing this visual part of the performers' identity, publicists both reinforced negative racial stereotypes ("white" would sell where black would not, in some markets, was apparently the assumption) and cut off blacks from their own visibly identified heritage. Some people feel strongly about that, others do not, but it is a consideration that deserve thinking over.96.237.177.108 (talk) 04:12, 1 March 2011 (UTC)

Citations & references
See Footnotes for an explanation of how to generate footnotes using the  tags Nhl4hamilton (talk) 04:43, 1 February 2008 (UTC)

Unsourced material
Please do not add material that is not supported by citations to reliable sources. It diminishes Wikipedia's reliability as a reference. Thank you. Finell (Talk) 20:11, 23 April 2009 (UTC)

Golfing and gourmet cooking
I attended his fabulous concert last night, 9/11/08, and was so impressed with his youth and vitality. Besides golfing and doing his own cooking, what else does he do or eat, or take, to maintain his youthful good looks and vitality? 69.227.215.155 (talk) 23:56, 12 September 2008 (UTC)gpatdick@sbcglobal.net

Introduction is copy/paste from Amazon.com
See http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000QJU4L0/ref=dm_dp_adp?ie=UTF8&qid=1227901213&sr=8-10 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.153.0.158 (talk) 22:29, 28 November 2008 (UTC)

Article has been mangled, probably on purpose
Looking at this article on 14-Dec-2008, I see that Mathis was born "twentieth of seven children", that he studied under a "yellow" teacher for "green" years...

Someone has been messing with this, and it needs to be re-proofed and repaired by someone with access to correct facts about Mr. Mathis' life and career. I am not such a person; I just wanted to bring this to the attention of those who may be monitoring these discussions.

L. Jacquet Dover, DE —Preceding unsigned comment added by 96.245.235.70 (talk) 14:01, 14 December 2008 (UTC)


 * Done. Was a piece of vandalism added earlier today and just needed reverting to the previous edit. Feel free to undo any other vandalism you find. It's fairly easy to put things right. Thanks TheRetroGuy (talk) 14:09, 14 December 2008 (UTC)

El Cerrito
I've read confusing sources that say Mathis may have also attended El Cerrito High School. I say confusing because the same sources could simply be saying he competed at a meet in El Cerrito. Can anyone confirm with a solid source that he spent all four years of high school at George Washington? Thmazing (talk) 21:20, 17 August 2012 (UTC)

Copyright problem removed
Prior content in this article duplicated one or more previously published sources. The material was copied from: http://www.allmusic.com/artist/johnny-mathis-mn0000246885/biography. Copied or closely paraphrased material has been rewritten or removed and must not be restored, unless it is duly released under a compatible license. (For more information, please see "using copyrighted works from others" if you are not the copyright holder of this material, or "donating copyrighted materials" if you are.) For legal reasons, we cannot accept copyrighted text or images borrowed from other web sites or published material; such additions will be deleted. Contributors may use copyrighted publications as a source of information, but not as a source of sentences or phrases. Accordingly, the material may be rewritten, but only if it does not infringe on the copyright of the original or plagiarize from that source. Please see our guideline on non-free text for how to properly implement limited quotations of copyrighted text. Wikipedia takes copyright violations very seriously, and persistent violators will be blocked from editing. While we appreciate contributions, we must require all contributors to understand and comply with these policies. Thank you. Dana boomer (talk) 15:11, 20 September 2013 (UTC)

Wonderful, Wonderful
Mathis' version of Wonderful, Wonderful was NOT used on the X-Files episode "Home". It may have been the producers' wish to use it, but according to that Wikipedia page, Mathis refused to grant permission. The series found a sound-alike singer to re-record the song. Kenny James sings the new version.

Angela Nenn216.0.111.209 (talk) 21:54, 16 September 2014 (UTC) So. Cal.

African American
we cant categorize him as african american and not have a mention anywhere in the article that he is. i added a reference showing his mother was black. Ideally, someone could find a scholarly book discussing his acceptance as a light-skinned, or partly-black, performer of mostly "white" standards among a white audience, which is noteworthy. Oh, i did find such a scholarly work discussing his sexuality, as well as his racial identity, which i added to the small section on his US magazine interview. I declined to add african american in the lead, as the statement "african american singer" doesnt reflect that his music was not considered "black" during his heyday, nor possibly that he was not considered black by his audience. This, of course, is a perfect example of the fluidity of race as a label, particularly in the U.S. very, very complex.Mercurywoodrose (talk) 04:36, 13 July 2011 (UTC)


 * The words "African American", "Afro-American", "Asian-American", "Black", "Mexican-American", "Anglo-American", "Japanese-Brazilian", and "I" are always capitalized. Why not just do it on "automatic pilot" and then you can never go wrong. "U.S." is written with two periods, just as is U.K.47.215.211.16 (talk) 21:49, 29 August 2016 (UTC)

MOONRAKER
The article on the James Bond film "Moonraker" says that Mr. Mathis was chosen to sing its them music "Moonraker", but for some reason he was unable to complete this contract. We can only presume that this was because of an unspecified illness or injury. The British singer Shirley Bassie was chosen to replace Mr. Mathis. There is nothing about this in the present article about Mr. Mathis. I came here to look it up because I wanted to learn if it was a serious illness. On the other hand, since Mr. Mathis is a singer, maybe he just had an extended case of influenza, or more seriously, pneumonia. There is the frightening possibility of heart disease. Incidentally, this made Ms. Bassey the only person to record the three theme songs for three James Bond movies: Goldfinger, Diamonds are Forever, and Moonraker. This also makes it worthwhile to mention this episode in the life of Mathis, as well as explaining how sick he really was.47.215.211.16 (talk) 22:02, 29 August 2016 (UTC)

External links modified
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Poor sourcing in lede
I just removed these sentences from the lede:

Mathis has sold well over 350 million records worldwide, according to Guinness Book of British Hit Singles writer and charts music historian Paul Gambaccini and other sources. This makes Mathis the third biggest selling artist of the 20th century.

Of the cited sources, 2 of them (nmaam and achievement.org) are 404 not-found pages. The concert database page doesn't seem relevant to the claims being made (the page is about concerts, not about record sales). The encyclopedia.com one similarly doesn't appear to support the claim being made (350 million) but does support a much smaller claim of 100 million... but this source is from 2005 and therefore quite out of date by now. (Also I wouldn't personally consider it to be a super high quality source anyway.)

Since the claim isn't negative, it may seem harmless, but it's always important to be accurate and to use only high quality sources. I did some searching to try to find a source in which Paul Gambaccini made the claim, but I am so far unsuccessful.--Jimbo Wales (talk) 15:18, 28 September 2017 (UTC)

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