Talk:Johnson Space Center shooting

wow already up. Anyway should we be naming the shooter yet? what source are you getting for this?Hentai Jeff 23:04, 20 April 2007 (UTC)

I got it from the Johnson Space Center page Sportsandweatherfreak 23:16, 20 April 2007 (UTC)

Well then that should be removed as well. Wikipedia is not for speculation, only facts.Hentai Jeff 23:28, 20 April 2007 (UTC)

On Cnn.com it says the shooting took place on Thursday.

Page needs to be moved
This page needs to be moved. Shooting should not be capitalized. See Naming conventions (events) Copysan 00:21, 21 April 2007 (UTC)


 * We'll allow an admin to do thisHentai Jeff 00:23, 21 April 2007 (UTC)


 * I put in a request for a history merge on Johnson Space Center shooting. We can't move this page there until that is done. Gdo01 00:26, 21 April 2007 (UTC)


 * why not just copy and paste? Copysan 00:30, 21 April 2007 (UTC)
 * Well it seems I managed to do with it without screwing it up too much. There may still be some bad redirects out there but we basically just need the history merge and we're good. Gdo01 00:41, 21 April 2007 (UTC)
 * Is Lyndon B. Johnson Space Center shooting better than just Johnson Space Center shooting? Gdo01 00:48, 21 April 2007 (UTC)


 * Its fine for now. When the media begins to choose a common name to use, we will need to move it there, per the naming conventions. Copysan 00:53, 21 April 2007 (UTC
 * Why delete this? This is a shooting.  If you merge this you should merge the Vtech shooting too because they are similar just more people died in the Vtech shooting.  Keep this Sportsandweatherfreak 01:34, 21 April 2007 (UTC)
 * Will people please read the notice before you comment on it. Gdo01 01:35, 21 April 2007 (UTC)

name changes
What's going on? The name keeps changing. Irdepesca572 00:35, 21 April 2007 (UTC)
 * NASA refers to it as Johnson Space Center (or JSC for short). So any article name should be based on that, not the full president's name.  Just want to put in my opinion here (based on the fact here) since it is unclear what the intended outcome of all these name changes and history merges is. 204.42.27.110 01:58, 21 April 2007 (UTC)

Columbine and Vtech
This is very relevant to this article and I believe should be included. If you don't agree state your reasons hereHentai Jeff 00:46, 21 April 2007 (UTC)
 * They're not connected in any way other than date or proximity. Also please read WP:MOS for guidelines on how to write a proper lede. Copysan 00:49, 21 April 2007 (UTC)
 * The date alone could connect them, remember there are copycats out there and I believe this guy was copying both, but only time will tell that. For the time being it belongs in here, I could also put in the Oklahoma bombing that happened on the 19th but I believe that one is a stretch, with reasons including that McVeigh and Nicoles didn't carry out suicide attacks.Hentai Jeff 01:00, 21 April 2007 (UTC)


 * On what evidence do you base this belief? WP:V states that information needs to be verified before being stuck into an article. Let's get a source to say theyre connected somehow before we start speculating. Copysan 01:05, 21 April 2007 (UTC)


 * What evidence is needed? it is fully relivent and needs no explanation. Hentai Jeff 05:41, 6 May 2007 (UTC)


 * No evidence that there is any connection. Without a cite relating these events, it is WP:OR to suppose there is any connection. Have deleted this "connection". Yaf 05:43, 6 May 2007 (UTC)


 * Connection is implied and needs no explanation or cite.Hentai Jeff 05:44, 6 May 2007 (UTC)


 * There is no connection. Unless you can find a cited source claiming that there is some connection, it is Original Research on your part to claim a connection.  Yaf 05:47, 6 May 2007 (UTC)


 * No it is stated fact that needs no source. Hentai Jeff 05:48, 6 May 2007 (UTC)


 * If we are allowed to insert implied connections based on dates, then I propose we also add in the following events: Oliver Cromwell dissolves the Rump Parliament, Admiral Robert Blake destroys a Spanish silver fleet under heavy fire at Santa Cruz de Tenerife, The former King James II of England, now deposed, lays siege to Derry, American Revolutionary War: the siege of Boston begins, which followed the first battles at Lexington and Concord. Surely all these acts of violence are somehow related to this shooting! Copysan 06:14, 6 May 2007 (UTC)

Who on earth purpose another deletion
Why an deletion? I wonder who purpose it. This shooting just happens on today. As the shooting unfold, more info will be pouring in. So no need for deletion.Chris 01:01, 21 April 2007 (UTC)
 * Read what it says. A history merge requires deletion and then restoration to fix the history page. Gdo01 01:03, 21 April 2007 (UTC)


 * Its a procedural thing. What happened was a bunch of pages were created, and now we need to merge them all into one. It seems it will be this one. The deletion tag on top is asking an admin to merge all the histories from all the pages into one. (edit conflict) Copysan 01:04, 21 April 2007 (UTC)

History merge
I originally created this article, which was then moved to NASA hostage crisis and now it looks like the history of my contribution is lost. Can it be merged back in, as mentioned above, please? Ghost Yacht 10:43, 21 April 2007 (UTC)

Merge involved persons articles?
I'm copying over some discussion that happened on the William Phillips page. Copysan 02:10, 25 April 2007 (UTC)

The result was merge both the William Phillips (gunman) and David Beverly into this article. -- Chris 22:48, 26 April 2007 (UTC)

Merge. I propose we merge this article (William Phillips (gunman)) with Johnson Space Center shooting. Gunman isn't particularly notable. --'oac' (old american century) | Talk 19:29, 23 April 2007 (UTC)
 * Keep - He is notable, it was breaking news on the news channel for quite a while. i say just leave the page alone. 72.65.182.207 19:47, 23 April 2007 (UTC)
 * Striking anon's consensus. Please register to take part in this discussion.  Thanks!  Stubbleboy 18:43, 26 April 2007 (UTC)


 * Merge agree with OAC, and this information can be adequately covered in the JSC shooting article without exceeding the MoS suggested page length. I also suggest merge of David Beverly for same reasons. Copysan 02:01, 25 April 2007 (UTC)
 * Merge I created the article, however I am inclined to agree that the information on this shooter could be included in the main article regarding the shooting. I'm not sure exactly what you would include under his caption because I haven't read anything regarding his personal background or family history.  Furthermore if this information were presented, perhaps it would be a rational idea to keep the page.  Perhaps we should leave it for a bit longer, if nothing becomes of it, then merge it.  Stubbleboy 18:37, 26 April 2007 (UTC)
 * Merge Info on the 2 article are related Chris 22:37, 26 April 2007 (UTC)

Several problems with page
I work in the group that used to include Dave and Bill. As it happens, I'm writing this from the office that was created when they remodeled the office suite that used to include Dave's office.

In contrast to some reports, Bill Phillips did not live in "poverty". He lived in a nice neighborhood. Prices in that neighborhood are in the $150's. mid-to-upscale neighborhood. The reports that he lived in poverty have to do with the fact that he had little or no furnature, and spent very little money. Before he came to JSC, he was laid off from Westinghouse in or near Baltimore and spent three years unemployed. During that time his wife left him and he spent all his savings. As a result, he put every penny he earned into savings while he worked for Lockheed, and then Jacobs when they won the contract.

Only two people were shot. Dave and Bill. There was no other person injured. The CNN article referenced (2) is from the day of the shooting and is erroneous.

The other person injured, if you can call it that, was one of the many evacuated to the nearby fire station. He experienced an anxiety attack, that some thought might be a heart attack. So he was taken to a hospital and released later that night.

The portion about Dave is utterly insufficient. Much was written about him in the week following the shooting. I'll try to find a link and add to that paragraph. I can't say it any better than his wife Linda did on some of her interviews. My wife and I were with Linda the day after the shooting when one of the TV vans came to interview her. It was the most amazing thing. She was happy to talk about Dave. Talked about their lives together. They had been sweethearts since the 8'th grade. Over the course of a couple of years they rode motorcycles to all 48 contiguous states. They lived for a time on a sailboat. Dave designed their house himself. He was a wonderful man.

Likewise Fran is wonderful. However she didn't wiggle out of the duct tape to alert the authorities about what happened. She wiggled out after Bill shot himself so that the SWAT team wouldn't barge in and accidentally shoot her.

I wish all the memorializing that went on could be captured in this page, but I suspect that's too much to ask. Both the on-site memorials and the off-site memorials were wonderful. Bill's memorial was more sad than anything else, but Dave's were joyous, at least that's the way I remember them.

I'll spend some time coming up with edits to make to the page. I'm not a great writer, nor do I have the references that I suspect will be required. I'll see what I can do.


 * --Watchingthedog (talk) 04:15, 3 December 2009 (UTC)I agree with you that there should be more on this page about the victim. The memorials for David were touching but there is also another less flattering side of David that would also need to be presented.

Just a comment about this article. I was in the conference room next door to Dave Beverly's office on that day. My team and I were also the last to be escorted out of Building 44. I corrected the original article once. There were 5 shots NOT 3. Once out of the building, we watched the news media begin to manufacture details of the crime. The number of shots is one point of misinformation that has been perpetuated. 23 Mar 2012 12:45pm — Preceding unsigned comment added by 50.15.131.158 (talk) 17:46, 23 March 2012 (UTC)

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