Talk:Johrei

Korean
someone added this comment in corean, but I don't think it belongs here in the english wikipedia, so I am posting it here in the discussion forum and undoing the change:

[ 정령에 대해서 ]

행복한 인생의 기초는, 「건강」입니다.

WHO(세계보건기구) 집행이사회는, 「건강」에 대하여, 종래는 「마음과 몸과 사회적인 면」으로 정의하고 있었지만, 덧붙여 「영성(靈性:spirituality)」를 추가할 것을 의결했습니다..... 획기적인 일이라고 평가되고 있습니다.

『정령(淨靈)』은, 심신(心身)의 에너지를 비약적으로 활성화해, 인간에게 내재한 영성(靈性)을 높이는 가장 확실한 방법으로, 정령을 통해 마음과, 몸과, 혼을, 진정한 건강으로 이끌고 있습니다.

『정령(淨靈)』은, 오카다·모키치선생이 창시한 것입니다만, 홀리스틱의학(Holistic Medicine)의 세계적 권위자인 앤드류·와일박사를 비롯해, 미국과 영국의 학자, 연구기관이, 정령의 대단한 효과를 연구해, 의학적인 메커니즘의 해명에 노력하고 있습니다. 지금까지, 「암세포를 파괴하는 NK세포는, 『정령(淨靈)』을 계속 받으면, 4주부터 현저하게 활성화된다」는 것 등이 확인되어있으며, 더욱이 현재, DNA레벨에서의 영향에 대해서 연구가 진행되고 있습니다.

『정령(淨靈)』은, 전달하는 사람이 15∼30분간, 대면한 상대에게 손을 들어서 행하는 것이 기본입니다. 정령을 받는 사람은, 그 효과를 처음부터 믿을 필요가 없습니다. 의심해도 효과는 같습니다.『정령(淨靈)』의 전달은, 전세계에 『정령볼런티어(JohreiVolunteer)』에 의해 행하여지고 있으며, 정령을 요청하는 목소리에 신속히 대응할 수 있는 체제를 갖추고 있습니다.

세계에 확산되는 정령 활동

정령은 현재 일본, 미국, 브라질, 태국, 중국, 유럽 등 세계 70여 개국, 500만 명의 사람들에 의해 실천되고 있습니다.

14:03, 2 May 2009 (UTC) anonymous —Preceding unsigned comment added by 114.48.40.188 (talk)

Beware of this cult
someone edited and cut out the following part of the wekipedia page I had added. he is probably right that it goes against wikipedia article policies, sice I couldnt find any references to back up what I said, that doesnt make it untrue. and I truly was a member of the church for about 3 years. the worst years of my life, and I think I owe it to the public to warn them of the dangers of world messianity. but I think it belongs at least on the discussion page. If someone can find a refference with information against world messianity, I suggest he write about it on the wikipedia page. my post said the following:

counter argument- as an ex member of the church i would like to warn prospective followers that the church publishes many papers portraying many miraculous healings but i never witnesed one. during their lectures they have also claimed to have resurected people from the dead, but they claim this happens in Angola (where it is almost impossible for the common member to check it's verasity. Also, some members and even senseis suggest that other members should stop taking medicines. I belive that johrei and other things in world messianity are supperstitions and the church is after the money of members and prospective new members. i hope that even if you want to delete this counter argument you will at least mention that johrei is considered to be superstition by some people. 114.48.50.55 (talk) 11:27, 19 August 2009 (UTC) exmember of world messianity


 * I’m sorry you got frustrated with Johrei. Like Christianity, Johrei has dozens of independent groups, religious (most) and non-religious ones. Please, mention that, otherwise people will  think all Johrei groups are alike. Some think it’s superstition. Some think  different,  like the huge USA NIH-National Institute of Health, the biggest Research Grant  Institution in the world, with millions of dollars in grants. They think it’s worth to check Johrei effects.


 * So, the NCCA-Center for Complementary and Alternative Medicine of the NIH- granted US$ 1.3 million to the U. of Az.-University of Arizona for “A Scientific Study About Healing Surgical Patients”. These worldwide well known scientists, all professors at U. of Az, are studying it.: Dr. Gary E. Schwartz, Ph.D. -Department of Integrative Medicine, Dr. Lewis E. Mehl-Madrona MD Ph. D. Coordinator U of A College of Medicine, Dr. Ronnie Fass, MD  and Dr. Allan Hamilton, MD chairman of the  Dept. of Surgery,  currently leading the project, that said: " While other smaller studies have documented the positive effects of prayer and a spiritual support system, this is the first clinical study to scientifically document the effects of Johrei on physical  healing. ” Please, see  http://www.johrei-institute.org  for details and/or call U. of Az. for verification.  Thanks! COI: I’m a member of an independent Johrei non-religious group being formed. "The link to information about research   Peaceful008 (talk) 00:33, 31 May 2010 (UTC)

I think it is more logical to state that the effects of Johrei are inconclusive, since each experiment will contain different contexts and biases. Certainly it is not provable that Johrei works, but it cannot be said that it doesn't ever work. Just as it has been claimed that one had a bad experience with Johrei, another claims its benefits. Additionally, it must be taken in context of how and where it started. Johrei is part of a much larger philosophy developed by Mokichi Okada that commented on nearly all major aspects of culture. His writings are vast, perhaps hundreds of volumes, and his legacy included more than Johrei, including agricultural practices and agricultural associations (Natural Agriculture) as well as museums to promote global art. Both of these ventures continue to grow till today. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.241.64.149 (talk) 01:01, 20 March 2021 (UTC)

Article name change
As Johrei should be spelt Jōrei according to Romaji, shall be change the name of the article and place a redirect from "Johrei" to "Jōrei"? --  Xxglennxx  ★ talk contributions ★ 23:16, 5 May 2010 (UTC)

Johrei defined
Johrei is defined by its creator and practitioners. Quoting of their words, and explanation, are the appropriate descriptions of the practice; although, if they can be found, reports by objective outside observers can also be useful. Unless a reliable source can be found for the effects of Johrei representations of its effect should be quoted and clearly ascribed to the founder and its practitioners and the reports of those who have undergone it. The point being, that for this purpose, their own words is the best source; provided they are clearly identified as such. User:Fred Bauder Talk 23:33, 30 January 2011 (UTC)

Arguable content
The reliability of the content in this page is highly arguable. This seems to be a report by a person who is biased to Joherei and have the motive of promoting it. The statement about the research is also false. The arizona research (http://lach.web.arizona.edu/publications) says those recoveries are only self reported. This page need to be removed or corrected entirely.

There are over 20 claims in Sri Lanka that people have died by going for Johrei without adhering to proper medication. (Dinesh.srikantha (talk) 07:57, 12 August 2011 (UTC))

COUNTERPOINT TO ABOVE

Johrei research at fully accredited research institutions:

Mr Dinesh Srikanha seems to have a personal negative experience against the spiritual practice of Johrei. Without knowing the details of the circumstances from Sri Lanka, the practitioners of Johrei do not claim to heal or diagnose illness and disease. Johrei is a personal lifestyle faith practice.

There are a number of claims found within spiritual "healing" practices like Christian Science and other faith healing that may prefer spiritual healing to traditional medical practice. It is the responsibility of the individual who experiences Johrei, to determine and decide if traditional medical treatment is warranted, regardless of what the individual may "hear" or learn from anoyone claiming to be a Johrei practitioner. Johrei practitioners are strictly prohibited from suggesting that Johrei is an alternative for traditional medical treatment - particularly in severe or terminal illness, or in medical emergencies requiring treatment at an ER.

The fallacious argument that Johrei is responsible for the following: "people have died by going for Johrei without adhering to proper medication," is like blaming non-traditional treatment (acupuncture, naturopathy, ayurvedic treatment, etc) if someone chooses those forms of treatment over traditional medical treatment and succumbs to any illness. These unfounded accusations are fraught with serious implications that seriously hurt millions of Johrei practitioners around the world, who practice this faith with the sole intention of enhancing their personal lives through a practice of faith, personal responsibility, healthy diet and a nurturing and respectful relationship with nature.

Traditional medical doctors like Dr. Andrew Weil (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andrew_Weil) have investigated and shared their experiences about Johrei.

See: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mmPajgMnwQI

It is vitally important for the curious public to further investigate and seek objectivity on any disputed subject.

END OF COUNTERPOINT. Source: http://johreifellowship.org/ (Jfedit (talk) 22:28, 6 June 2014

Secondary independent sources needed, WP:MEDRS for biomedical information
Secondary reliable sources independent of the subject are needed to support content. For any biomedical information WP:MEDRS quality sources are needed. Primary sources and proponents are not appropriate to base an article on. A significant amount of the content in this article is subject to removal due to poor sourcing. - - MrBill3 (talk) 08:13, 8 November 2014 (UTC)
 * I'm afraid it's primary, but here is a study involving Edzard Ernst, which he mentions on his blog. Ian.thomson (talk) 01:41, 2 August 2017 (UTC)