Talk:Joker (character)/GA3

GA Review
The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.''

Reviewer: SNUGGUMS (talk · contribs) 22:33, 3 August 2014 (UTC)


 * Infobox
 * Is it possible to be give a more specific range (i.e. March, April, or May 1940) than "Spring 1940" for Joker's debut?


 * Lead
 * "a fictional character, a comic book supervillain appearing in DC Comics publications" → "a fictional character from DC Comics".
 * "but acknowledged Finger's writing contribution" → "while acknowledging Finger as a writer"
 * "the archenemy of the superhero Batman" → "Batman's archenemy"
 * "warped" in "warped, sadistic sense of humor" is POV
 * "goofy" in "goofy prankster" is POV
 * As Batman's nemesis, the Joker has been part of many of the superhero's defining stories (including the paralysis of Batman's ally, Barbara Gordon, and the murder of Jason Todd, Batman's ward and the second Robin)"..... very lengthy, try something like "During his encounters with Batman, the Joker murdered Jason Todd—the second Robin and Batman's ward—and paralyzed Batman's ally Barbara Gordon".
 * "a number of origin stories during his seven decades in publication"..... various origin stories would be better, and "seven decades" is subject to change..... something like "throughout his history" would be better
 * "The most common has him falling" → "The most common story is where he falls"
 * "iconic" in "most iconic characters in popular culture" is WP:PEACOCK, try prominent instead


 * Publication history
 * Creation
 * Who gave Kane the 1994 interview mentioned?
 * "Batman's larger-than-life nemesis"..... just say "Batman's nemesis"
 * Who gave Robinson the 1984 interview mentioned? Also, there should be a comma between "interview" and "Robinson"
 * "diabolically sinister-but-clownish villain"..... POV
 * "In an interview during the same period"..... vague
 * "By 2011 Robinson, Finger, and Kane had died, leaving the story unresolved"..... needs comma between "2011" and "Robinson"
 * Daily Mail (ref's #9 and #12) is not a reliable source


 * Golden Age
 * "The character's regular appearances quickly defined him as the archenemy of the dynamic duo, Batman and Robin's; he continued to claim lives, and even derailed a train"..... lengthy, try "Joker's recurring appearances quickly defined him as Batman and Robin's archenemy. He continued to kill and once derailed a train."
 * "During this period the first changes"..... needs comma after "period"
 * "About the same time"..... around
 * "darker elements"..... POV
 * See note above in "Creation" regarding ref#12


 * Silver Age
 * "In 1951 Finger"..... needs comma after "1951"
 * "and his disfigurement the result of a fall into a chemical vat" → "where he was disfigured from falling into a chemical vat"
 * "By 1954 the Comics Code Authority"..... needs comma after "1954"
 * See note in lead about describing him as "goofy"


 * Bronze Age
 * "maniac" is borderline POV
 * "was used, sparingly, as a central character"..... not sure if the commas are needed here
 * "changing his more average body type" → "changing his figure"
 * "DC Comics was a hotbed of experimentation during the 1970s"..... something about this just doesn't read very well
 * "Narrating the character's interactions with other supervillains, the series' first issue was written by O'Neil"..... doesn't read well either
 * Is "criminality" the best word choice?
 * "This limited story scope" doesn't really belong
 * "terrifying characters" is POV
 * "defined the Joker for decades to come"..... also doesn't read well
 * "In 'The Laughing Fish' the Joker"..... needs comma after "Fish"


 * Modern Age
 * "cited as one of the greatest"..... described as


 * Character biography
 * See above note in lead regarding "seven decades"
 * "The generally accepted, consistent view of the character is that disguised as the criminal Red Hood, he was pursued by Batman" → "The most common origin story is where he is disguised as the criminal Red Hood and pursued by Batman"
 * "The Joker's reason for wearing the Red Hood costume and who he was before his chemical bath have changed with time"..... something about this simply doesn't read well
 * "tortures her father, Commissioner Gordon"..... include his name James
 * "one bad day"..... "bad" seems borderline POV, just say "one day"
 * "he shows his appreciation by sharing a joke with Batman"..... include what the joke was
 * "The character's maiming of Barbara arguably turned her into a more-important character in the DC Universe: Oracle, a data gatherer and superhero informant who has her revenge in Birds of Prey by shattering the Joker's teeth and destroying his smile"..... too detailed, try "Barbara later took on the name of Oracle and shatters the Joker's teeth in Birds of Prey".
 * Unlink "Oracle (comics)" as it is a DAB
 * "he seriously considers killing the supervillain"..... remove "seriously" and replace "supervillain" with "Joker".
 * "giving him diplomatic immunity; however"..... replace the ; with a period, and capitalize "however".
 * "poison the UN membership he"..... needs a comma after "membership"
 * "In the 1999 'No Man's Land' storyline the Joker"..... needs a comma after "storyline"
 * "When the supervillain then tries"..... he
 * "so he can go on"..... not very encyclopedic
 * "When the Joker escapes he attacks"..... needs a comma after "escapes"
 * What makes "Topless Robot (ref's #59 and #85) reliable?


 * Origins
 * "An unreliable narrator"..... POV, remove it
 * Remove "here" from "Here, the character"
 * Remove "in this story" from "In this story the Joker"
 * "the Joker's unreliable memory"..... sporadic memory or forgetfulness would be better
 * "He has his fateful first meeting with Batman, which results in his disfigurement" → "He is disfigured during his first encounter with Batman
 * "The story implies"..... I know what this is trying to say, but It is suggested would be better
 * "In Batman Confidential (#7-12) the character"..... needs comma before "the"
 * "a gifted criminal" is POV


 * Other versions
 * This subsection seems rather short compared to the previous subsections
 * Remove "Still" from "Still others"


 * Characterization
 * See note above in "" regarding "HowStuffWorks" (ref#86)
 * "Renowned as Batman's greatest enemy, the Joker is known by a number of nicknames" → "The Joker is Batman's archenemy. His nicknames include"
 * "an extreme psychopath" → "a psychopath"
 * see note above in lead regarding "warped, sadistic sense of humor"
 * "an eccentric, harmless prankster and thief"..... "eccentric" is POV, and I'm not sure how I feel about using "harmless" here
 * "the pair representing a yin-yang of opposing dark and light force; although it is the Joker who represents humor and colour and Batman who dwells in the dark"..... keep it simple and say they are polar opposites of one another
 * "Murder, theft, and terrorism, no crime is beyond the Joker, and his exploits are a theatrical performance that are funny to him alone"..... not very encyclopedic
 * "becoming a monster like the Joker"..... POV
 * The Huffington Post (ref#96) isn't the worst of sources, but not exactly the best either


 * Personality
 * "Like a psychopath, he lacks empathy, a conscience, and concern over right and wrong"..... needs to be rewritten completely, try something like "He is depicted as a psychopath with no remorse for his actions.
 * See above note in "Origins" regarding "unreliable narrator"
 * "paralleling Batman's origin in the loss of his parents" isn't really needed
 * "He tries (and fails) to prove" → "He unsuccessfully tries to prove"
 * "aware of how his actions affect others; his insanity"..... replace the ; with "and"
 * "twisted" in "twisted parody" is borderline POV
 * "illogical" in "illogical nature" is borderline POV
 * "In The Dark Knight Returns and Arkham Asylum: A Serious House on Serious Earth the Joker"..... needs comma after "Earth"


 * Skills and equipment
 * "inherent" in "The Joker has no inherent superhuman abilities" isn't really needed
 * Is "WhatCulture" (ref#108) a high-quality professional source?


 * Relationships
 * "introduced the Joker's daughter; her parentage claim was later proven to be false" → "introduced Duela Dent as the Joker's daughter, though he was later proven not to be her father".
 * "The story is notable for the Joker taking on a (relative) god and the ease with which Superman defeats him—it took only 17 pages"..... very POV and unencylcopedic
 * "the villain replies" → "the Joker replies"
 * "the Joker fought his third major DC hero: Wonder Woman" → "the Joker fought Wonder Woman"


 * Cultural impact
 * See note above regarding ref#96
 * See note above in lead regarding "iconic"
 * Include who views the Joker as one of the "best comic villains" or "greatest villains" (i.e. book critics or journalists)
 * Include comments Wizard, Empire, IGN, Wired, and Complex gave in their rankings for Joker
 * See note above in "Skills and equipment" regarding ref#108
 * I realize that CollegeHumor (ref#141) is used for a ranking, but am not sure if they're accepted as a reliable source. Probably better to play it safe by removing this.
 * Specify who the "other publications" are and which decade is being referred to in "the decade's top villain"
 * "has involved the character in most Batman-related media, from television to video games"..... doesn't read very well
 * "He has been received positively on film and television, and (as in the comics) the character's personality and appearance shift"..... rather abrupt transition
 * The reliability of About.com (ref#158) as a whole is disputed, so let's play it safe and remove this
 * See note above in "Character biography" on "Topless Robot" (ref#161)


 * In other media
 * Three images in one spot is excessive, just go with one or two
 * "The Joker has appeared in a variety of media, including television series, animated and live-action films" should be removed as it doesn't really read well and I can't think of a good way to phrase it
 * "The character's earliest adaptation"..... specify that this is an on-screen adaptation
 * I don't think everyone reading this article is going to automatically know what "darker" refers to in the instances used in this section
 * "The Joker has also been featured in video games" → "In video games"


 * References
 * The New Yorker should be italicized in ref#1
 * "Bleeding Cool" should link to Rich Johnston in ref#4
 * The Daily Telegraph should be linked and italicized in ref#5
 * Remove "Dennis Publishing" from ref#6, and "Den of Geek" should not be italicized
 * The New York Times should be linked and italicized in ref#14
 * Los Angeles Times should be italicized in ref#18
 * PopMatters should not be italicized in ref#22
 * Remove "Townsquare Media" from ref#24 (Comics Alliance)
 * Link IGN in ref#26
 * See note on ref#6 regarding ref#27
 * See note on ref#24 regarding ref#32
 * Daily News (New York) should read "New York Daily News" in ref#41
 * See note on ref#6 regarding ref#48
 * Complex (magazine) should be italicized in ref's #50 and #51
 * See note on ref#18 regarding ref#54
 * See note on ref#6 regarding ref#58
 * Geek Monthly should be italicized in ref#61
 * See note on ref#24 regarding ref's #67 and #68
 * See note on ref#61 regarding ref#70
 * The Guardian should be linked and italicized in ref#72
 * Kotaku should not be italicized in ref#82
 * See note on ref#24 regarding ref's #101 and #123
 * See note on ref's #50 and #51 regarding ref#130
 * See note on ref#18 regarding ref#131
 * See note on ref#24 regarding ref#134
 * See note on ref#14 regarding ref#135
 * Wizard (magazine) (ref#137), Empire (film magazine) (ref's #138 and #147), and Wired (magazine) (ref#140) should all be italicized
 * See note on ref's #50 and #51 regarding ref#149
 * Entertainment Weekly should be italicized in ref#151
 * See note on ref#72 regarding ref#154
 * See note on ref#18 regarding ref#155
 * See note on ref#5 regarding ref#156
 * GamesRadar (ref#157) should not be italicized, and remove "Future plc"
 * Roller Coaster DataBase should not be italicized in ref's #159 and #160
 * Forbes should be italicized in ref#178
 * The Hollywood Reporter should be italicized in ref#181
 * See note on ref#41 regarding ref's #189 and #190
 * See note on ref#178 regarding ref#193
 * Shacknews should not be italicized in ref#194, and remove "GameFly"


 * GA Result
 * I am failing this article as it needs a thorough copyedit and reference overhaul. Sorry that this article has had such poor luck in the past getting to GA, though. Given how this is the fourth unsuccessful GAN, do NOT renominate right away. I strongly suggest taking to peer review. I see that the peer review from May 2008 was brief, though it's worth taking another shot at PR. This also went through GOCE this past April, but it looks like that wasn't enough. Feel free to take back to GOCE as well. Better luck next time, everyone.
 * I feel that after having waited 4 months for someone to review it, giving me two days to address your issues wouldn't have seemed very excessive. Especially since most of the content complaints are about your apparent personal dislike of any writing flair. Darkwarriorblake / SEXY ACTION TALK PAGE! 11:45, 9 August 2014 (UTC)