Talk:Joko Widodo/Archive 1

Re-write needed
The introduction is far too long, and needs to be cut back. Details should be moved to other sections.101.98.175.68 (talk) 00:29, 8 April 2014 (UTC)

Can you translate the Indonesian to English？
id:Joko_Widodo <- Very complete --Erik Fastman (talk) 08:42, 13 May 2014 (UTC)

Reads like an advertising promotional piece
The article is entirely pro Widodoo - it is like reading a advertising promotional piece (the sort of thing that Time magazine produces for, say, the head of General Motors) or even a fan letter. There is no critical section - not even the basic question of where all the money (for Widodoo's spending projects) is supposed to come from.90.199.153.102 (talk) 10:00, 21 October 2014 (UTC)

One of Wikipedia's WORST biographies
This article is entirely lopsided in favor of this extreme right wing nutcase who promotes death by firing squad of drug convicts. This is a hugely controversial capital punishment policy and it should be addressed in this guy's profile. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2A00:1028:8D1C:741E:F00D:3EAC:960F:F06A (talk) 10:48, 18 January 2015 (UTC)
 * His party the Indonesian Democratic Party – Struggle has a socialist/marxist platform. So he is actually left wing. And from reading the news I have the impression that the decision is only controversial in the home countries of the foreign nationals whose citizens are about to be executed (like Australia) and not controversial at all in Indonesia. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 110.22.21.87 (talk) 16:30, 8 February 2015 (UTC)

Be Neutral and No trolling
This article were trolled and vandalized by an editor named Pineporky and several anonymous editors, especially in political career and medal-honour section please someone else go and fix it.

Mufidkce (talk) 11:14, 10 February 2015 (UTC)

Photograph
I think this article need a formal photo, as all Indonesian presidents' articles using a formal photo. Yoshiharu10 (talk) 08:05, 11 March 2015 (UTC)
 * The formal one already deleted by wikimedia, hence this current photo showed that he wear a blangkon and Beskap which is considered as "formal" to Javanese Tradition. Mufidkce (talk) 09:40, 18 March 2015 (UTC)
 * Why was the formal picture deleted? (http://www.indonesia.go.id/in/presiden-dan-wakil-presiden/presiden). It is shown on the (featured!) Indonesian version of the page. Isn't it part of the public domain as an employee performing official duties of a government? (eg. Barack Obama's portrait) Shonen84 (talk) 19:22, 12 April 2015 (UTC)
 * The publication contains a copyright notice. According to Article 14 item b of the Indonesia Copyright Law No 19 the publications by the Government are not in the public domain if the publication contains a notice of copyright. --Martin H. (talk) 20:00, 12 April 2015 (UTC)
 * I see, understood. However, the copyright on the Indonesian government's website precedes the picture (copyright 2010, picture must be from 2014 or later). Also, if the same argument applies, why does the Indonesian wiki maintain the copyrighted image, and mentions the same Indonesian public domain law? Shonen84 (talk) 20:34, 12 April 2015 (UTC)

Military uniform
Why is he wearing one? Brutannica (talk) 14:06, 11 July 2014 (UTC)
 * He is not; that is a civil officer uniform. 110.22.21.87 (talk)
 * As the IP said: standard issue for governors. See our image of Rano Karno of Banten for comparison. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 08:58, 23 July 2014 (UTC)

Even parking hops in Indonesia have a uniform with fruit and a whistle. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Suastiastu (talk • contribs) 10:18, 16 July 2015 (UTC)

Early Life and Education
Can we please have a better source on the claims around Jokowi's business sources of capital. The assertion that he relied on a loan from his mum to restart the business is quite at odds with sourced material that Jokowi started his own business in 1989 with a loan of Rp 15 million from his father. The business went bankrupt and in the early 1990s, he was forced to restart, this time with a fresh loan for Rp 500 million from state owned enterprise, State Gas Enterprise(Perum Gas Negara) http://asiapacific.anu.edu.au/newmandala/2014/07/29/the-local-merit-president/ Suastiastu (talk) 08:19, 25 July 2015 (UTC)

Jokowi compared to previous Indonesian presidents
The phrase "the first Indonesian president not to have emerged from the country’s political elite or an army general" is preserved from quoted material from The New York Times, Please do not add any weird additions linked to BJ Habibie's aerospace engineer education (btw, Habibie could be categorized as country's political elite) like user:Suastiastu did, and please learn Quotations, Wikipedia do not quote itself (refering to other Wikipedia article as source/reference).  Gunkarta  talk 13:41, 24 July 2015 (UTC)

Its factually incorrect/controversial and also a bit weird - - why wouldn't a president, former governor of Jakarta and Surakarta not be political elite? Hardly a nobody from nowhere. Or is your suggestion that being Governor of Jakarta is not political or elite? What does it mean? Habibie was not an army general...how was he a political elite? Former President Gus Dur was not an army general - Former President Megawati Sukarnoputri was not an army general Suastiastu (talk) 13:59, 24 July 2015 (UTC)


 * Do you understand what "political elites" means? Political elite does not always equates an army general. Megawati clearly a political elite from Sukarno dynasty, benefitted from Sukarno's legacy. B. J. Habibie was actually Indonesian intellectual elite that gained scholarship in Germany, caught attention of Suharto, and unexpectedly chosen by Suharto as successor, so yes he belongs within Suharto inner circle. And don't even start with Gus Dur. He is hardly a commoner or poor, he belongs to Nahdlatul Ulama religious organization elite; his father is Wahid Hasyim, the first Minister of Religious Affairs 1945-1952. His grandfather is Indonesian National hero Hasyim Asy'ari. Gus Dur's family modest lifestyles was based on their own preferences, not forced upon. Jokowi started his political career as governor of Surakarta not as political elite, but through won Pilkada popular vote (pemilihan kepala daerah or kabupaten/kota election).  Gunkarta  talk 14:52, 24 July 2015 (UTC)

Gunakarta - you might want to consider your tone which is consistently personally aggressive. It is quite obvious that "Political Elite" does not equate with an army general - in most countries no-one would even think the two equated - it is only because of Indonesia's corrupt military dictatorship history that this might be assumed by Indonesians. Habibie was a technocrat an educated man but not arising from a political elite (his agriculturalist father passed away at 15). He wielded power mstly through technical respect being afforded him, not because he was part of an entrenched political elit - in fact you quite rightly point out that he held position by virtue of patronage from Suharto. The difficulty I think you are having expressing your views to an international audience is that you are using descriptions that parrot or might fit Indonesian orthodox narrative but make no sense when writing to an audience that regards "political elite" as meaning something quite different to a campaign slogan- for example Gus Dur coming from a religious organization is quite different from Megawati being a daughter of the first president. Gus Dur biography is clear that he had to make his own way and earn his own living through employment. For sure Jokowi did not start his political career as an elite, but he has certainly held high office before being President - perhaps it would be better to describe him as the most inexperienced President Indonesia has ever had. Suastiastu (talk) 08:38, 25 July 2015 (UTC)

Jokowi's policy on drugs-related crime and capital punishment
On contrary to user:Suastiastu edits (here and here), I think we should put the issue on perspective (which was drug-related crimes and capital punishment in Indonesia), and avoiding to reduce the article into a simple dramatic parody of itself by blaming, launching smearing campaign, and painted darkly Joko Widodo with sentences describes him as "against human life/human rights" etc.  Gunkarta  talk 02:40, 16 July 2015 (UTC)

The appropriate way to "put things in perspective" is to put objectively factual and referenced material - not delete objective referenced material which you might wish did not exist. It is objectively a major factor of Jokowi's Presidency the killing of many foreigners - you may wish to explain it (and please put up REFERENCED facts), but it is objective history. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Suastiastu (talk • contribs) 10:11, 16 July 2015 (UTC)


 * Ah.., at last a response, where have you been mate? Dear Suastiastu, I do not mind any well-referenced unbiased sentences, or any (perceived) negative aspects of Joko Widodo, as long as it is carefully addressed, since this is Biographies of living persons. You also selectively erased some of positive aspects of the article, simply by stating as "political spin". Excuse me, was it your non-neutral POV that was kind of "political"? Please do not try to make the sentences/opinion as if it is wikipedia's, those are Australian columnists opinions that you're keenly quoted regarding recent Indonesia-Australia spat on Australian drug convicts execution. You seems to eagerly blame Joko Widodo on this problem, and ignoring the bigger picture, context and the background, which was the drug-related crimes in Indonesia and Indonesian position on capital punishment. Those deceased people were executed by Indonesian legal system, not Jokowi, which only refuse to grant clemency and letting the process went. And please refrain on using non-neutral "colorful" phrases such as "Joko Widodo took harsh stance against human right to life", which was (again) your POV.  Gunkarta  talk 10:57, 16 July 2015 (UTC)

I'm not your "mate" Gunakarta whatever meaning you think that conveys. The Head of State of Indonesia (currently Jokowi) has the life or death authority on all persons executed byu virtue of the provisions of the Indonesian constitution - its base legal document. It is a clear change in Presidential policy since his election and he has made a big political thing about it domestically - but now Indonesians appear to want to distance themselves or Jokowi from it?? Germans don't like Hitler I suppose - but it wouldn't be a reason not to document the gas chambers - Anyway you seem to insist on posting your own colourful descriptions of Jokowi's political narrative. Your description of his action/inaction on this is controversial not factual. If you Suastiastu (talk) 14:11, 24 July 2015 (UTC)

I agree with your last comment Gunkarta. They quote from Australians who outspokenly hate Jokowi and tell people like me and you who want a less-biased portrayal of Jokowi's presidency to "show objective facts."Bookracoon (talk) 23:22, 20 July 2015 (UTC)

Bookracoon - Which do you say are the quotes from Australians who outspokenly hate Jokowi? Who are "people like me?" Who are "They"? - I'm unashamed about wanting the page to contain objective facts not a tribal misdescription. 14:11, 24 July 2015 (UTC)Suastiastu (talk)


 * Now-now, let's not start personal attack then, by referring Indonesian perspective as "tribal". It is not a secret that your recent edit records dear Suastiastu, are hardly objective, since only focused on negative aspects and selectively tearing down well-referenced quotes of the positive aspect of Jokowi. I understand that recent executions row of Australian Sukumaran and Chan has caused negative sentiments among Australians towards Indonesia, and I suspect somewhat you have bone to pick with Jokowi. However, spilling ugly diplomatic spat upon Wikipedia article is not a healthy practice for the sake of Wikipedia's neutrality. I think what Bookracoon means by "people like me and you" are people that do not have problems or bone to pick with Jokowi. Btw, the call "mate" was just a friendly gesture, it is up to you to consider anyone your mate or not, g'day...  Gunkarta  talk 15:53, 24 July 2015 (UTC)

Gunarkarta - please do not write in a patronizing personal manner. Your assumptions are not only incorrect, they are irrelevant to a page such as this. Jokowi has in fact made a major deliberate change in Indonesian foreign policy from that of SBY (a thousand friends and no enemies) and therefore is quite relevant to the page. Its not a matter of neutrality in opinion because opinion really shouldn't enter - its a matter of neutrality and accuracy in presentation of facts. The tribalism of your comments is exemplified by trying to use "Mate" and "G'day" as if its definitive or stereotypical of a person. I'm also referring to the gangs of (yes Indonesians) who all wear red to follow Jokowi and all wear Yellow to follow the other "tribe" and then attach colours or slogans that can be chanted or repeated without substance or thought. You will be going hard to find people that don't have problems or bone to pick with Jokowi or any politician. Don't try and make an Australia_Indonesia nationalist thing about this or about the worldwide reaction to Jokowi's shooting spree and auto-da-fe. I am sure you will find a mate elsewhere, mas. Suastiastu (talk) 09:00, 25 July 2015 (UTC)

Blusukan
Would it be better if an article called "Blusukan" is made? It will briefly describe on how Jokowi visits the rural areas surprisingly. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Jeffreyjahja (talk • contribs) 14:00, 6 November 2014 (UTC) Is this seriously something of Presidential stature???

Not the first president to visit a rural area of Indonesia on short notice - in fact they all did it and usually on short notice often for security reasons. This is an example of the page being used to promote a myth in line with Jokowi's domestic political narrative Suastiastu (talk) 14:15, 24 July 2015 (UTC)

It should be an own article. Jokowi does blusukan to see and interact with the people, not for security concerns. Suas is a biased hater.Bookracoon (talk) 02:34, 31 July 2015 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 7 July 2015
add the sub section "Subsidiary Petrol Policy" under section "President of Indonesia"

Tensa Februari (talk) 04:00, 7 July 2015 (UTC)
 * And what goes in that section? Stickee (talk) 05:47, 7 July 2015 (UTC)

Unlike previous presidents, Joko Widodo take unpopular measures to reduce fuel subsidies. Although gets a reaction in the form of demonstrations at several places in Indonesia, Joko believes it does to increase funding in infrastructure, health, and education.

"Some say I would be unpopular if the increase in fuel subsidies. I said I did not seek popularity, "he said. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Tensa Februari (talk • contribs) 09:49, 7 July 2015 (UTC)

Actually the price of fuel has been rising by increments under previous Presidents - it is not a sudden miracle due to Jokowi. If there is to be something about a decision of Jokowi it is appropriate to put something about what his decisision was - not to try and puff it upo with anciliary story about why it is special or a good thing.... — Preceding unsigned comment added by Suastiastu (talk • contribs) 10:14, 16 July 2015 (UTC)

Prove it Suas. You hate Jokowi so much you're all over this page.Bookracoon (talk) 02:37, 31 July 2015 (UTC)

I have inserted a reference to the increases in fuel prices/decreases in subsidies under President SBY. Actually what Jokowi has done is transfer the subsidy from one area of state accounting to another by arrangement with 100% state owned entity PERTAMINA having to wear the loss instead of the direct government account. That is also well reference on the page. also Bookaroon - you may want to consider being less personally aggressive in your approach and stop casting aspersions. If you have a contribution to make to the page then make it in a well-referenced and objective manner not tearing down contributionsSuastiastu (talk) 02:02, 8 August 2015 (UTC)

You've referenced Aussie political commentators who call Jokowi an idiot and a coward. You are the one attacking in unobjective manners Suas. Bookracoon (talk) 02:46, 18 August 2015 (UTC)

Infobox picture
His current infobox picture feels a bit... weird to me. The section Photograph above has already stated that the official portrait is a no-go, but isn't there anything better on Commons? Besides, the current image has no clear license anyway. - HyperGaruda (talk) 19:36, 9 September 2015 (UTC)
 * Added the official (but low-res) one. Muhraz (talk) 08:19, 1 October 2015 (UTC)
 * The quality is good enough, we don't really need to see each spreckle ;) I am concerned however that this may be exactly the image described under Photograph... - HyperGaruda (talk) 15:28, 1 October 2015 (UTC)
 * It is indeed the exact image. But I have to note that Indonesia had its copyright law updated in 2014 and the new legislation have some new sections that provided a public domain for images of President, Vice President, and several other public officials. The PD-IDGov template is, however, not updated yet and we're looking forward to do it as soon as we can get an official translation for the law. Muhraz (talk) 14:26, 5 October 2015 (UTC)
 * Also, not all publications would have had notices. The pictures hanging in classrooms and offices almost certainly don't. — Chris Woodrich (talk) 15:01, 5 October 2015 (UTC)

the Presidential Career section
Like the already-existing wikipedia note says, this section needs expansion, or else I think it should be deleted. Yes Jokowi ordered the executions, but to write absolutely nothing else about his entire presidency is bias-by-selective-reporting. It's a smear on Jokowi by those who don't agree with the executions.Bookracoon (talk) 21:07, 24 June 2015 (UTC) Why is it a smear if he ordered the executions???? By all means write some other things he is famous for, but you can't simply ignore one of his major actions since becoming President....Suastiastu (talk) 14:19, 24 July 2015 (UTC)

To report facts without any bias is by definition non bias reporting. His sharp increase in executions against global condemnation is a major component of his time as the president. To consistently delete it is a deliberate attempt to sanitise his brief time in office.

Reporting the executions is not tantamount to disagreeing with with them. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Bakerthebulletdodger (talk • contribs) 05:48, 26 June 2015 (UTC)

You missed his point: not that reporting executions are wrong, but that's it's wrong to only report them and ignore everything else in his presidency. Bookracoon (talk) 23:20, 20 July 2015 (UTC)

Isn't the appropriate response to try and find something else he has done during his presidency and include it? So far though its the thing Jokowi is most famous for - and it was completely deliberate on his part (eg getting the military fighter jets involved in a big media escort of the condemned)Suastiastu (talk) 14:19, 24 July 2015 (UTC)

Suastiastu makes a valid point Bookracoon. It is becoming clear that the Wiki page is being edited to appeal to local politics and from what the global media is reporting, its not working. The Wiki page is full of political fluff with all of the hard stuff left out. He made be known locally as the "bike path building president" but globally he is known as the executioner. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Bakerthebulletdodger (talk • contribs) 10:01, 9 October 2015 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 3 November 2015
The "Policies on Drug Crimes" section has multiple grammatical errors and should be fixed.

2602:306:831B:A6E0:6562:34A6:CED6:A9A (talk) 02:50, 3 November 2015 (UTC)
 * Yes check.svg Done Stickee (talk) 04:55, 3 November 2015 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 17 November 2015
There is a typo within the personal life section in the part that reads "however after the Bali Nine and the Lindsay Sandiford case, the he came under fire from the band" The word "the" should not be included.

104.136.190.160 (talk) 23:12, 17 November 2015 (UTC)
 * Done, thanks for catching that. 97198 (talk) 05:49, 18 November 2015 (UTC)

Remove Javanese script
It's unsourced and Indonesian people have its own name written in Latin script. Hddty. (talk) 14:25, 16 April 2017 (UTC)
 * It's the Hanacaraka which is an alphabet - it's just a transliteration hence ꦗꦏꦮꦶꦢꦢ (Jaka Widada). Since he's Javanese by birth I don't see any problems with having a Javanese name in addition. Juxlos (talk) 04:22, 8 September 2017 (UTC)
 * He is Javanese but his name originally written in Latin. Hancaraka shouldn't written here if that isn't his original name. I'm trying to search "ꦗꦏꦮꦶꦢꦢ" on Google but it only showed blog that copy-pasting text from Wikipedia. Hddty. (talk) 03:35, 9 September 2017 (UTC)
 * That's the only transliteration possible to Javanese. Regardless, getting written Javanese for anyone born in the past 60 years or so is rather hard, yes. While at it, I've got no luck finding references for the previous presidents as well (ꦯꦸꦏꦂꦤ, ꦩꦸꦲꦩ꧀ꦩꦢ꧀ꦯꦸꦲꦂꦠ, ꦯꦸꦱꦶꦭꦨꦩ꧀ꦧꦁꦪꦸꦝꦪꦤ). I hold that transliterations wouldn't need citations to WP:NOTOR but oh well Juxlos (talk) 03:46, 9 September 2017 (UTC)
 * I don't need the reference for the transliteration, what I need is that a reference that says that his name is originally in Javanese. I personally didn't believe that his name originally written in Javanese, so therefore the Javanese name shouldn't written here. Per WP:EN: "Names not originally in a Latin alphabet, as with Greek, Chinese or Russian, must be transliterated into characters generally intelligible to literate speakers of English." Hddty. (talk) 04:27, 10 September 2017 (UTC)

External links modified
Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified 5 external links on Joko Widodo. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20131224154423/http://www.thejakartapost.com/news/2012/01/03/surakarta-mayor-uses-car-made-vocational-schools-students.html to http://www.thejakartapost.com/news/2012/01/03/surakarta-mayor-uses-car-made-vocational-schools-students.html
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20131029205100/http://berkas.dpr.go.id/pengkajian/files/info_singkat/Info%20Singkat-V-9-I-P3DI-Mei-2013-38.pdf to http://berkas.dpr.go.id/pengkajian/files/info_singkat/Info%20Singkat-V-9-I-P3DI-Mei-2013-38.pdf
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20131224102842/http://www.development.asia/PDF/issue15/devasia-15-web-4-nov-2013-14-overdue-antidote.pdf to http://www.development.asia/PDF/issue15/devasia-15-web-4-nov-2013-14-overdue-antidote.pdf
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20140323130638/http://money.cnn.com/gallery/leadership/2014/03/20/worlds-best-leaders.fortune/37.html to http://money.cnn.com/gallery/leadership/2014/03/20/worlds-best-leaders.fortune/37.html
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20131002011435/http://www.princeton.edu/successfulsocieties/content/data/policy_note/PN_id199/Policy_Note_ID199.pdf to http://www.princeton.edu/successfulsocieties/content/data/policy_note/PN_id199/Policy_Note_ID199.pdf

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Amateur Radio Callsign
I open this section to discuss the president's amateur radio callsign. There has been two attempts to add that information. I removed it in both instances because there was no summary of explanation whatsoever regarding that callsign. Even the reference contains almost nothing other than saying that the president has the callsign. Before such information make it into the article, I would like to ask: "What is the significance of the callsign, especially in regards to Jokowi himself and his job as president?" AdaCiccone (talk) 04:15, 11 January 2019 (UTC)
 * It's more of a "do sources report on it"? And I really have never seen this be mentioned anywhere in regular media. Juxlos (talk) 07:50, 11 January 2019 (UTC)

“Presidency” article
Now that Criticism of Joko Widodo is an article, it probably would be fair if a Presidency of Joko Widodo is a thing as well. Juxlos (talk) 12:16, 20 October 2019 (UTC)

A Commons file used on this page has been nominated for deletion
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page has been nominated for deletion: Participate in the deletion discussion at the. —Community Tech bot (talk) 07:21, 22 November 2019 (UTC)
 * Rodrigo Duterte and Joko Widodo on blusukan in Jakarta (2016-09-09).jpg

Irresponsible undo
I objected with an reckless undo removing a large edit contribution without any clear reason.

In Indonesian article, there is a section about Controversy (Joko_Widodo#Kontroversi) supported with Criticism of Joko Widodo why not here?


 * I don’t understand why User:Gunkarta reverted my edit with ‘’BLP issue’’ without specify which Issue that [roblematic because my significant edit supported wih more than 50 reliable references. Please check which part of this edit contains BLP Issue:


 * His approval rating as president was declining by a lot of unpopular decisions especially related to economic policies impacted public life directly. Policies on cutting subsidy on fuel, electricity power, gas and health security are also affecting foods, toll road, airplane tickets and other commodity prices that multiplying life burden of non-high income group instead of increasing public welfare. This issue was hightlighted by opposition vice-presidential candidate Sandiaga Uno during his campaign that he received many complaints from local housewifes about the price raising.


 * Because of tens unfulfilled campaign promises that are noted by public, such as ending bagi-bagi kursi (political nepotism) policy, Swasembada pangan (Food self-sufficiency), and improving economic growth the president was scorned by the opposition as hypocrite. Before his inauguration in October 2019, he said young figures with age 20-25 years old would be chosen to fill ministrial post and it would be a lot of 30-40 years old figures in his Cabinet, but the statement is unfulfilled, as his plan to reduce bureaucracy when there are 12 deputy ministers appointed to his cabinet.


 * Several anti-Jokowi movements went viral amid the public especially in social media such as term "Presiden Jokowi Makin Mendunia" in April 2015 when a newspaper cover showed title "Joko:I don't read what I sign". also the hashtags #ShameOnYouJokowi, #2019GantiPresiden, #UninstallJokowi which have become a top worlwide Twitter trending topic. The term Cebong-Kampret also became popular in social media.


 * As a governor, Widodo had been reported to Komnas HAM (Indonesian Human Rights Board) for human rights abuse for the violent eviction. There are also other incidents which are criticized as human right violations during his regime.


 * Based on various controversial policies, such as foreign citizen on minister appointment, Constitution violation charge and other law breaches during the presidential administration, a number politicians and senior analysts expressed that he could have been impeached by law.


 * In his administrations as Mayor and Governor, he had unsound achievements for financial management from the annual BPK (Indonesian Audit Body) reports  and had been reported several times to Local Courts, KPK and Supreme Court related to various corruption charges,  such as BPMKS scandal involving data manipulation in educational budget and Transjakarta scandal with problematic bus procurement, but none of the charges is proceeded into trial while there are witnesses to support the criminal charges against him.


 * A controversial policy on food imports while in 2014 campaign election he had declared to stop food import decision to support the Indonesian farmers who should be honored. however millions tons food supply were imported, even in harvesting seasons which disappointing the local farmers, and reported by BPK audit that there are mismanagement on these import policies. After the corruption scandal of garlic import was uncovered including politician figures, this controversial imports policy raised accusations about the existence of "food import mafia" and in September 2019, following the import scandal, he made an immediate approval of KPK bill that is responded negatively by the public because this decision broke his own promise in Nawacita programs to root out the corruption.


 * Based on several studies were conducted by the scholars to examine the progress of democracy in Widodo era, they concluded on their results that the Indonesian democracy in recent years is declining, even reached the worst level in Reform era.

Anti-Islam accusations

 * Anti-Islam charges are often addressed to the president from various cases, including the controversial sudden Islamic group ban and unresolved cases of persecutions against Islamic preachers.


 * Term "radicalism", that has been blown up on the media, is linked with religion by several tendentious reports during his presidential administration, that a lot of mosques to Islamic preachers were affected with radical thoughts,  while no other religion in Indonesia linked with the radicalism, except Islam. In October 2019, the suspicious about effort to connect radicalism with religious issues has been raising in public when he appointed new Religious Affair minister with main task to tackle radicalism and intolerance.  Later, he suggested that term "radicalism" is replaced by term "manipulator agama" (manipulator of religion). Former House of Representative Deputy Speaker Fahri Hamzah accused that the president is surrounded by Anti-Islam circle, and blamed his position as sins when letting Anti-Islam sentiment and Islamophobia through "Ideology conflicts." The narration of radicalism itself is viewed as an issue diversion from serious economic problem,.   while MUI official Din Syamsudin and other Islamic scholar claimed that massive deradicalization propaganda in Indonesia is a part of the Intelligence operation project related to "Islamophobia propaganda" that is funded by the West to undermine Islamism from within.   ''


 * Please provide strong reason before dismiss the significant contribution, that everyone might have controversy stories you cannot deny including Joko Widodo Qzxv5 (talk) 09:09, 21 November 2019 (UTC)


 * As well as the problems with WP:UNDUE, the addition of this huge section is also a clear breach of WP:SYNTH. Where are the sources explicitly supporting the editor's conclusion that Jokowi is controversial? He is certainly not universally popular, but no politicians are. That isn't a controversy: it's politics. There are, of course, clear references supporting the contention that Jokowi is a politician. Davidelit (Talk) 09:50, 21 November 2019 (UTC)


 * When there are a lot of Information supported with dozens of reliable sources, then is accused of WP:SYNTH Don't be kidding. If you asking Where are the sources explicitly supporting the editor's conclusion that Jokowi is controversial? In Indonesian article, there is a section about Controversy (Joko_Widodo#Kontroversi) Qzxv5 (talk) 10:34, 18 December 2019 (UTC)


 * Leaving aside the problems of Indonesian Wikipedia, the section on controversies there does not support the religious agenda being pushed. I repeat, where are the sources explicitly supporting the editor's conclusion that Jokowi is controversial?. Regards Davidelit (Talk) 03:24, 19 December 2019 (UTC)


 * If you ask me "where are the sources explicitly supporting the editor's conclusion that Jokowi is controversial?" You should check dozens of references of Controversy section in (Joko_Widodo#Kontroversi) or Browsing them on Internet yourself and you might found several articles about the controversies (whether including religion topic or not). That aside, Which part of "my long edit and various sources" above contains BLP Issue that should be removed? If no one could give reasonable argument for this, therefore the section should have not been reverted on the article. Qzxv5 (talk) 09:17, 17 January 2020 (UTC)

response from uninvolved editor
All the signs are that adding material like this to an existing article is WP:UNDUE - it would rest much more appropriately in a separate article that addresses the 'controversy' relative to a person. Understanding WP:BLP and WP:ABOUT and WP:NOT clearly also helps. Existing articles being added to with material like this makes the article a problem for any editor putting it up as it is specifically in the area of WP:SOAPBOX material, where the creation of such an article that is offering in the content is a view that is WP:POV and unencyclopediac. A better handle on how other politicians are covered in the Indonesian section would also help. Also more english language sources would also help. But I would not support its addition to the existing article. JarrahTree 09:40, 21 November 2019 (UTC)


 * Whether you support the addition or not, Wikipedia do not depend on subjective supporter but any addition must be depending on fact, reliable sources and cooperation among the users. Qzxv5 (talk) 10:34, 18 December 2019 (UTC)

Honorifics in the infobox
Skabe24 and Tensa Februari are having a minor edit "skrimish" about the honorific-prefix parameter in the infobox. "His Excellency" has been removed and re-added every now and then, these past few weeks. I don't see any sources supporting this honorific, neither here nor at Joko Widodo, although the id-wiki version of "President of Indonesia" mentions "Yang terhormat" as the presidential addressing style. I thought that "Yang terhormat" meant "The honourable", while "His excellency" was more like "Yang mulia"? Can anyone support the honorific "His Excellency" with reliable sources? - HyperGaruda (talk) 12:08, 3 January 2016 (UTC)
 * Just read this discussion and this edit is still keep added every now and then. In Indonesian language, actually there is official letter mentioning how to address the president which is "Yang terhormat, Presiden Republik Indonesia, Bapak Jokowi", but no official English translation. However, there is Gov't regulation on state protocol (PP No 39 tahun 2018, penjelasan pasal 28) that mentioned how address president (not just president of Indonesia) which are "Your Excellency, Your Excellency The Honourable, The Honourable, Honourable, Dear Mr. President."  So... I guess all of five them is OK. Ckfasdf (talk) 00:09, 17 May 2020 (UTC)

No merge for Criticism of Joko Widodo
The criticism article was huge content (more than 100 kb) while no single point of the criticism preserved on the Joko Widodo article Qzxv5 (talk) 10:29, 25 April 2020 (UTC) — Qzxv5 (talk&#32;• contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic.
 * Everybody in the AfD agreed that the original article was a 100k-piece of low-quality soapboxing by a SPA-user. The closing result was merge, with an explicit task given by the closer : "I strongly urge whoever does the merge to only take the best material, and rigorously enforce policies such as WP:RS, WP:BLP, and WP:POV." I had begun to clean up the page even before the AfD had a result, because of the obvious blatant policy violations by, and I became simply tired because nobody cared to join. After the closer, eventually took up the task, which I highly appreciate, and merged the remaining 40k into this article. Now it's my turn to strongly urge all editors to remember that the result was merge (the best content) and not delete. Keeping not even a single grain of the material without previous explicit vetting is against consensus. Sorry, , as much as I agree with you, we must do the dirt job first, scrutinize every paragraph, and say why it's not worthy to be kept, otherwise it does indeed looks like censorship. It's all about quality, nothing else. –Austronesier (talk) 11:17, 25 April 2020 (UTC)
 * I get the idea and I understand the censorship issue, but dumping 40kb worth of "Criticism" content which is basically Google Translated rants onto a 90kb article is a gigantic BLP violation. Many points are also already in the "Presidency" parts (e.g. meh economic growth, human rights issues that doesn't involve the FPI). We should try to incorporate valid points into the "Presidency" section if anything. Juxlos (talk) 16:41, 25 April 2020 (UTC)
 * I took care of removing 17k unencyclopedic material, MorningThoughts more than 40k, so sifting through the remaining 40k will be tedious, but manageable. I don't know, does it comply with WP policies to draftify the page (last version before merge) for the cleanup? –Austronesier (talk) 17:12, 25 April 2020 (UTC)
 * Just realized that critics section took half of the page. I will to try to trim some of the criticism and them removing some WP:overcite. Since criticism sub-section is located in presidency of Indonesia section, I propose to only include criticism during his presidency (not include times as governor or mayor). and the criticism include there are only critics that directly related to him. Ckfasdf (talk) 01:45, 17 May 2020 (UTC)
 * Trimming is done - I kept gubernatorial criticism where relevant, but roughly 3/4 of the wikitext (including 20+ citations for "Jokowi violated freedom of expression", several big WP:SYNTHESIS items, Fahri Hamzah and Fadli Zon's ramblings, and borderline hoax misreadings of sources) were removed and merged into other sections. Juxlos (talk) 06:30, 18 May 2020 (UTC)