Talk:Jon Gibson (Christian musician)

Hammer/Gibson
I do most of Hammer's article and did a large part of Gibson's awhile back (extremely familiar with both artists), and may continue to expand it eventually. It was the concensus that Hammer has periods in M.C. per album covers, etc. I have been going to related articles changing them. There is a talk page discussion about it on his page. We have also discussed merging or changing the article title and search/link to M.C. which is correct, not MC. Thanks, but you didn't give me the benefit of the doubt with my good faith edit nor did you discuss it as I'm doing now. Good day! P.S. M.C. works too. It goes to his page without affecting the "link". I wasn't trying to correct it, I'm more concerned about being accurate/factual, not right. 63.131.4.149 (talk) 08:49, 2 January 2011 (UTC)
 * Take it up with Wikipedia. The article doesn't contain the periods. The one with the periods is a redirect to the one without. If you want it to have periods, pipe it. --Walter Görlitz (talk) 08:54, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

CD Baby bio is the same as the Soul Tracks bio
Bold are the differences. They are otherwise identical and as far as WP:V and WP:R go, are the same document. Unless there is text in the profile that is not displayed to all users. --Walter Görlitz (talk) 02:36, 3 January 2011 (UTC)
 * http://www.soultracks.com/jon_gibson.htm
 * http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/jongibson4
 * CD Baby's starts "For the last two decades" while Soul Tracks starts "For nearly three decades".
 * CD baby "moved him to the head of Contemporary Christian artists" Soul Track "moved him to the A-List of Contemporary Christian artists"
 * CD baby "urban-sounding disc made with master producer Tommy Sims. The album didn't fare well" Soul Tracks "urban-sounding album made with master producer Tommy Sims. It didn't fare well".

Photo
Would be a good idea to get a publicity photo posted on the article eventually. 64.134.54.7 (talk) 11:49, 7 July 2012 (UTC)
 * A photo, yes. Publicity photos are copyrighted and so are not permissible on Wikipedia. --Walter Görlitz (talk) 14:22, 7 July 2012 (UTC)

Of course, but in general, a publicity photo meaning a public domain photo. Or simply, a/any photo available to post on Wiki (without being so "micro"). For instance, a current one from his new album or from a prior release. Thanks! 64.134.54.78 (talk) 05:18, 8 July 2012 (UTC)
 * Many photos (past and present) on his website that might be "available" for use? 209.103.209.92 (talk) 11:22, 8 July 2012 (UTC)
 * Publicity photos do not enter the public domain. Their ownership is retained by the original copyright holder whether that is the photographer, record company or publicist.
 * Published online, by American copyright law, means that they are copyrighted. Sorry. --Walter Görlitz (talk) 19:59, 8 July 2012 (UTC)

This and other articles (ie. one used to be posted on an actor's article from Welcome Back, Kotter for awhile) claim to be "publicity" photos (perhaps as a generic term) which is the point. However other editors acquire photos for articles, some from artist's websites, would work I'm sure (without being too technical and in hopes you won't be too literal with the words I'm using). You or I can get the wheels in motion so that one can be posted. If you've checked and nothing is approved by Wiki, please disregard. (I realize there are older and newer photos of Gibson on various sites, but that doesn't mean they can be used for the article.) Thanks! 209.103.207.26 (talk) 01:52, 31 August 2012 (UTC)

Consider context first
Please don't be "revert happy". Consider the context of all changes and by all means READ sources and sections before just undoing good edits. It's wrong and unproductive! It's lazy to undo quick fixes and appropriate updates/changes... FYI. 99.129.112.89 (talk) 12:43, 21 January 2013 (UTC)

FYI only
"Ebony & Ivory" + "The Wall" + "She Told Me So" videos all on Youtube and/or social media sites of artists involved. 2602:304:CEED:E550:EC6B:4B7F:25C9:67C4 (talk) 11:37, 28 January 2018 (UTC)

Unproductive/unnecessary/unwarranted reverts by Walter Gorlitz
'''(cur | prev) 16:00, 31 January 2018‎ Walter Görlitz (talk | contribs)‎. . (14,908 bytes) (-1,256)‎. . (Reverted to revision 804571074 by NihlusBOT (talk): Revert to last stable version. (TW)) (undo) (Tag: Undo)'''

''All of the edits made to the article were legitimate and sourced. The new information is appropriate as is the revised additions. In fact, if you took time to view them all and not use "twinkle" then you'd see that the current way the article is has errors (such as "Love Comes Down" is "Love Come Down" and "This Wall" is actually "The Wall", fixed/updated links to other articles, etc.)! Adding information such as his first interaction with Wonder makes sense instead of a paragraph that claims they reunited when it's never even mentioned they collaborated before until the edits made that you undid. I don't want to get in an edit war so I didn't "undo" it but you're absolutely wrong and do not own the article. The personal life info is cited and allowed within the article. The only thing that can stick is No. 1 not #/Number 1 (most likely done in error). Please check all the edits carefully (don't be lazy and ignore/discredit edits without doing verification first) and see that they comply with Wiki and therefore should remain. I see you have a history of doing this and it's not appreciated. Thanks and good day! P.S. I may not be back on to reply or defend myself. You just need to do the right thing and accept the changes/updates not revert them all (without explanation) to a "stable status" which is not correct such as punctuation errors within the listing of the songs/albums at the end of the article. Please pay attention and don't sabotage/suppress "good faith" contributions!'' 2602:304:CEED:E550:2142:3FC8:DC76:4D71 (talk) 10:04, 1 February 2018 (UTC)

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Notices are 5 years old (hence updates/improvements made):
This article has multiple issues. Please help improve it or discuss these issues on the talk page. (Learn how and when to remove these template messages)

This article may be written from a fan's point of view, rather than a neutral point of view. (December 2013)

This article may contain an excessive amount of intricate detail that may only interest a specific audience. (December 2013)

This biography of a living person needs additional citations for verification. (December 2013)
 * There are multiple issues. No, not all of the edits are legitimate. Many are primary sources. Most are not reliable. For instance you source the title for his song to Amazon.com. That is not a reliable source for songs. You also have the primary source, http://www.jongibson.com/story.html, for that. That's already a problem for a claim like this, but then when I read it, it doesn't mention the song and while it mentions Hammer, it's not in relation to that song.
 * The next sentence makes the claim that it was featured in Time-Life's CCM Presents The 100 Greatest Albums in Christian Music. First, that's not referenced. Second, you're saying a song appeared in a book about albums. Do you understand how illogical that is from the outset? Third, The album on which it appeared, Change of Heart, does not appear in that book, but Jesus Loves Ya appears at No. 90. Finally, the book was published by CCM Magazine and not Time Life. The magazine published a subsequent article (or was it a book?) in 2006 on the 100 best songs, and no work of Gibson's appears in that. Granted, those claims are made later in the article, but you've had a lot to do with this article over time (and over multiple anonymous accounts) so a thorough cleaning of the article is due.
 * I do not have the time to respond to all of the other problems but how about you start by explaining your edits using edit summaries, and without making massive changes. And it would be best if you did not remove the maintenance templates at the top of the article.

No mention of pre-Christian career
added to Music career section:

After Gibson got out of the army at age 20, he signed with Dick Griffey's Constellation label as a rhythm and blues artist. Jon's debut as a singer/songwriter came as a guest vocalist and songwriter on three songs for The Jacksons' keyboardist, Bill Wolfer's solo project entitled "Wolf" on the Constellation label. The album included Michael Jackson singing background vocals on the Gibson/Wolfer collaboration "So Shy". Griffey had fun circulating Gibson's demo tape, with people believing they were listening to Stevie Wonder (who Gibson sang "Ebony and Ivory" with while on tour in 1983). Gibson released his debut album Standing on the One with Constellation and produced the 1983 single "She Told Me So" via Elektra Records (including a music video that premiered on MTV).[2] Gibson, however, being torn between his desire for pop stardom and his need to give testimony to his faith, entered the Christian music industry when he signed with Frontline Records in 1986.[5] 2602:304:CEED:E550:2142:3FC8:DC76:4D71 (talk) 00:57, 2 February 2018 (UTC)
 * Good point. The source for being signed to Constellation is primary but should be OK. This content needs to be rewritten because it's a copyright violation, or at least very closely matches the word order from that page though. Walter Görlitz (talk) 03:46, 2 February 2018 (UTC)

per Walter Gorlitz's disruptive reverts — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2602:304:CEED:E550:2142:3FC8:DC76:4D71 (talk) 01:00, 2 February 2018 (UTC)
 * And I have requested that the article be locked to new and unregistered editors based on the comments I left above. The problems are all yours. Walter Görlitz (talk) 01:13, 2 February 2018 (UTC)
 * Page protection already applied, no further admin action needed here. Yunshui 雲 水 08:39, 2 February 2018 (UTC)


 * Admin action needed was not for a temp block on this page it was because WG violated revert rules again and was not even warned. He recently conducted an edit war on Billy Graham as well even after given a reason for the content being removed. This is an ongoing problem with him over the years because he's too busy (as he mentions above) or lazy to do any work but delete good faith edits by anon users. I'll be back years from now when he's long gone until the truth is included on this article. P.S. I will not directly communicate with him, view his messages on my talk page or reply to any messages he leaves here. He can not be cooperated with. He's difficult and I've been over it for years. 2600:1702:1690:E10:8938:94E:77FE:6FF1 (talk) 16:43, 1 March 2018 (UTC)
 * Actually, it was you, anon, who were adding unreliable sources. This is an ongoing problem with you over the course of this article because you have no clue what a reliable source is. If you're not willing to communicate, that could get you blocked as well.
 * That you're pretending to be a different editor than the earlier anon is laughable. Walter Görlitz (talk) 17:50, 1 March 2018 (UTC)
 * Reports of edit warring should be made to the appropriate noticeboard, rather than by using the help template. Yunshui 雲 水 08:41, 2 March 2018 (UTC)
 * And read WP:BOOMERANG before you do. It seems that the addition of sources that fail WP:RS and the WP:OVERREFs have stopped. The prose are, more or less, the way the anon would like them (even though it completely misses the point that "This Wall" was also the name of the song "The Wall") and the refs are sufficient, albeit not of the highest quality. I don't see the need for page protection, but do have the article on my watchlist and should notice any inappropriate changes. Walter Görlitz (talk) 15:56, 2 March 2018 (UTC)
 * I just fixed another case of using poor sources and OVERREF, although a read of MOS:LEAD wouldn't hurt. For the record, online sources are not required. Sources are. Read WP:V. Walter Görlitz (talk) 16:20, 2 March 2018 (UTC)

Notes to self
This article has come a long way over time since the original creation of it but I would still like to eventually include additional notable collaborations/influences contained within this early contribution (ie. John P. Kee + Rick James, Ray Charles, etc.): as well as more recent ones (ie. Gibson serving as the house band for Prince, etc.) when I have more acceptable sources. For now, i'm taking a long break from this article and hope in time the notices/headers/templates can be removed (at least some of them). I may not return until his new album is released. I also think adding jazz, funk, pop and/or rap genres is acceptable based on album content and some sources I've read categorizing them as such (ie. urban). Not important. No response needed for this. Just a reminder for myself in the future. 2600:1702:1690:E10:1CC6:9EDD:42E:91BF (talk) 06:18, 6 March 2018 (UTC)

These issues no longer apply and are outdated since the recent changes were made so they should be removed:


 * This article may be written from a fan's point of view, rather than a neutral point of view. (December 2013)


 * This article may contain an excessive amount of intricate detail that may only interest a specific audience. (December 2013)


 * This biography of a living person needs additional citations for verification. (December 2013)

76.238.222.85 (talk) 06:16, 13 March 2018 (UTC)


 * For the record, the song was always "The Wall" but was typed wrong by mistake. As with allot of other contributions i made in the past, meddling editors came to this article on purpose bent to ruin it by deleting/changing content and adding false templates resulting in poor quality, misspellings, missing sources and info being out of context/order. It made it sloppy due to their arrogance and ignorance. It's why people get upset on here when they have to redo things and prove themselves yet other articles have NO sources at all. This type of double-standards is epic on Wikipedia but tell anyone and they just dismiss complaints as being disruptive. The only common factor is humans making errors but not accepting blame. It is what it is but doesn't make it right. Moving forward... 2600:1702:1690:E10:5800:576:9EC4:80DC (talk) 19:49, 13 March 2018 (UTC)

P.s. I'm the reason this article exists and the one who has built it from nearly nothing over the years while others simply ruined it by suppressing my contributions! 2600:1702:1690:E10:A5FA:C10D:53AE:CE7 (talk) 04:37, 18 April 2018 (UTC)

Associated Acts
This edit is simply incorrect based on the documentation at Infobox musical artist This field is for professional relationships with other musicians or bands that are significant and notable to this artist's career.

This field can include, for example, any of the following:
 * For individuals: groups of which he or she has been a member
 * Acts with which this act has collaborated on multiple occasions, or on an album, or toured with as a single collaboration act playing together
 * Groups which have spun off from this group
 * A group from which this group has spun off

Separate multiple entries by using commas, Flatlist, or Hlist.

As per Wikipedia:Manual of Style/Lists and WP:Bandname, use sentence case for lists of band names. Example: The Rolling Stones, the Beatles, the Who

The following uses of this field should be avoided:
 * For groups: the solo careers of its members
 * Groups with only one member in common
 * Association of producers, managers, etc. (who are themselves acts) with other acts (unless the act essentially belongs to the producer, as in the case of a studio orchestra formed by and working exclusively with a producer)
 * One-time collaboration for a single song
 * Groups that have played or toured together as separate acts
 * Groups that are merely similar

There are no appropriate associations, at least not as the article is currently sourced. Walter Görlitz (talk) 14:18, 17 April 2018 (UTC)
 * How can you imply Gibson didn't have 'a professional relationship with other musicians or bands that are significant and notable to this artist's career' based on the content included throughout his "music career" section? They were all instrumental AND recorded with him (not just once with most of them). The article is overly sourced. His early beginnings with "The Hammer" as the Holy Ghost Boys could be added as well. Notice i didn't include Prince or Herbie Hancock for instance since they didn't record together or have a musical relationship outside of the gig he did. The associated acts comply with Wikipedia and coincides with all other musical articles that list collaborations with others. Your nit picking and cherry picking again as with Van Morrison still not being properly sourced as a Christian rock band artist yet is still not removed when Gibson is sourced as hip hop, urban and rap (his active years in the genre can be added after his name on the "list article" we're in dispute/debate about but i'm no longer contributing to since it's just you and i going back-and-forth so others need to give unbiased input for a consensus). And the consensus to remove U2 on the "list of Christian rock bands" has been ignored regardless of a source that does not say they are a Christian rock band in all fairness. These inconsistencies supported by you and the other editor who started the discussion (going as far as to say a 'citation tag' can't be added yet is/was done on the other list articles and even suggested/encouraged/reverted by you as well) is why i'm ignoring that topic/discussion/article. I've given enough proof whether you agree with it or not. I can contact you off this site instead since i know/found your location, social media sites, church, etc. I don't need to use this IP to contribute on Wikipedia and blocks have NO/ZERO effect on me plus i'm not addicted/obsessed like you are. I don't want to be on here getting harassed, hounded/stalked, threatened to be blocked, given multiple "fake warnings" on my talk pages or unnecessarily going to noticeboards for page protection against me, reverted which is disruptive vandalism and causes edit wars you're guilty of but not warned or blocked for yet (ie. per sources you removed and other past contributions for instance) and lied to/about by you anymore. I did my best to ignore articles you watch and only use an IP when i do contribute to them but i have better things to do than be controlled/manipulated by someone who wants to OWN articles. Thanks for taking this to the talk page at least for a change. Take care and Godspeed! 2600:1702:1690:E10:C8C8:4C73:ECE2:AC4A (talk) 17:07, 17 April 2018 (UTC)
 * I wrote that it's not an appropriate relationship based on the objective criteria. It'll number the entries so when I take to an RfC based on your intransigence on the subject editors can more easily comment.
 * Having been in a band together with Hammer is probably a good association.
 * Michael Jackson: He worked on (in your own words) "a guest vocalist and songwriter on several songs for The Jacksons' keyboardist, Bill Wolfer" and that Michael Jackson performed on one of Wolfer's songs. We don't even know that it was one Gibson performed on or wrote. Even if all of that came together, it's a "one-time collaboration for a single song" which is an association that "should be avoided".
 * Stevie Wonder. Sounds like him. Wonder playing harmonica on Gibson's cover of "Have a Talk with God". Gibson covers other Wonder songs. Not an association, but much closer than with Jackson.
 * Crystal Lewis does a duet with Gibson on "Lost Inside of You". Another one-time collaboration for a single song.
 * MC Peace. Collaborated on one song.
 * Soup the Chemist. Collaborated on one song.
 * Scott Blackwell. Blackwell remixed a song by Gibson. Collaborated on another.
 * Bill Wolfer. Addressed above. Possibly an association, but it appears that they collaborated on one album.
 * How are they both significant and notable to this Gibson's career?
 * Overly sourced with a vast array of unreliable sources.
 * As for contacting me, Facebook has been notified of your crude and vulgar slurs on my Facebook page.
 * You do have a block. In fact it's two. In fact, they were range blocks. That they were against your IP addresses rather than your registered account is immaterial. If they additions are not removed, I will take it to the next step. Walter Görlitz (talk) 17:35, 17 April 2018 (UTC)
 * More lies. Not sure what you're talking about as far as FB. Don't use that crap site. Also, MC Peace collaborated on more than one song. No "probably" with Hammer and more than once with Wonder and Jackson as well. Notable because they toured together too. Notable because of their influence and similar style. Notable with Wolfer because of his first start/break. Soup goes back to early days with Gibson in the hip hop game as rap pioneers which you want to ignore/dispute. Legit history with all these artists not just minor impacts. Funny how articles you watch have insignificant acts added. These meet the criteria. Don't be so jealous. And you still want to ignore the Van Morrison and U2 issue because you know i'm right and you/others contradicted yourself/yourselves on the hip hop list. Seriously, how do you live with yourself? It's 'laughable' (in your own words) you are here to "love my neighbor" as you stated on the Billy Graham article which you were also wrong about (per edit summaries) when it's clear you don't follow Christ as you claim. Just stop with the games! I'm onto you. Technically you shouldn't even be on here after all you've done wrong. It's just a slow work in progress! Your vandalism can not continue. Blocks/warnings against me weren't warranted and I didn't even notice them. They don't phase me. Does that bother you? :) It's a smoke screen based on your prejudices towards IPs. You need to get a consensus not have the final words on all the articles you watch. And with that, I... am... outta here! 2600:1702:1690:E10:C8C8:4C73:ECE2:AC4A (talk) 18:07, 17 April 2018 (UTC)
 * Sorry. I didn't mean to impugn your character. Stricken.
 * No sources to support "more than once" with Jackson.
 * The association with Wonder is more solid. If I recall the Frontline Rewind interview with Gibson, he toured with him.
 * "Groups that are merely similar" is to be voided. That means "similar style".
 * Having a start or break with someone is likely not an association.
 * The "back to the beginning" association with Soup the Chemist is not discussed or supported in the article.
 * One more time, please stop with the personal attacks. I ignored the first set. Consider this a clear warning. I will report the next one. WP:NPA reminds us to "comment on content, not on the contributor." Walter Görlitz (talk) 18:20, 17 April 2018 (UTC)
 * Similar sound in the sense he did backup for Wonder and Jackson for Gibson. Wolfer and Gibson worked on each other's projects so more than once. Please stop reverting (edit war) with previously sourced content (history of rapping since "The Wall" and "Ain't it Pretty" for example). Perhaps you need to read the sources better which explain the relationships with these associated artists. 2600:1702:1690:E10:C8C8:4C73:ECE2:AC4A (talk) 18:48, 17 April 2018 (UTC)
 * I seem recall that he did BGVs for Wonder, but it's not sourced in the article. No indication he did for Jackson.
 * Please stop adding hip hop. It's not a primary genre for Gibson. He uses rap as a tool. He also uses other musical elements in songs, but they're not a primary genre. Walter Görlitz (talk) 18:57, 17 April 2018 (UTC)
 * I just noticed the edit that caused the edit conflict. The multiple projects that Wolfer and Gibson worked on together do not appear to be sourced. Feel free to supply those from reliable sources. Thanks. Walter Görlitz (talk) 19:08, 17 April 2018 (UTC)
 * As for Facebook, I guess it's a just a coincidence that shortly after your most recent block that my church's Facebook page was once again plastered with slanderous material about me, as the associate pastor called it. And of course, there was another direct message to me warning me that I'll be sorry. I guess you can comment on it in a month's time. Walter Görlitz (talk) 04:32, 19 April 2018 (UTC)
 * Which is almost identical to the message you left here. Walter Görlitz (talk) 04:39, 19 April 2018 (UTC)

Replacing content removed by disruptive editor now blocked indefinitely
(clear examples of edit-warring and harassment by Walter over the years without being blocked)

Future update (need to fix cite warnings):

Discography Albums
 * 1983: Standing on the One (12-inch vinyl debut re-released in 1986)/(SOLAR/Constellation/Warner/Elektra/Asylum)/(Pop/R&B/Soul)
 * 1986: On the Run (album re-released in 1990)/(Frontline/Man/Benson)/(with No. 1 Single)/(Pop/R&B/Rap)
 * 1988: Change of Heart (Frontline/Benson)/(with 3 Top 10 Hits and a No. 1 Single)/(Pop/R&B/Rap/CCM)
 * 1989: Body & Soul (Frontline/Benson)/(with 3 Top 5 Hits on CCM/Gospel Charts)/(Pop/R&B/Gospel/CCM)
 * 1990: Jesus Loves Ya (Frontline)/(with 3 No. 1 Hits on CCM/Gospel Charts)/(R&B/Rap/Gospel/CCM)
 * 1991: The Hits (Frontline)/(Pop/R&B/Rap/CCM)
 * 1992: Forever Friends (Frontline)/(with 7 Top Ten Hits including 4 No. 1s)/(Pop/R&B/Rap/CCM)
 * 1994: Songs of Encouragement and Healing (a collection of Spiritual/Gospel songs)
 * 1995: Love Education (Brainstorm/Word)/(with 3 Top Ten Hits) /(Urban/R&B/Gospel)
 * 1999: The Man Inside (GospoCentric/B-Rite/Innerscope/Universal)/(No. 20 on Billboard's Top Gospel Albums )/(Urban/R&B/Gospel)
 * 2002: Soulful Hymns (Reachers/Imagery Records)/(Gospel/Spiritual/Praise/Traditional)
 * 2009: Spirit of Christmas Northern Light Orchestra (Christmas music)
 * 2010: The Horizons of Knowing (unreleased Urban/Soul album)
 * 2012: The Storyteller (Soul Scan Music)/(Urban contemporary/R&B/Soul)
 * 2017: Live in '85 (bootleg concert album) /(New Soul Records)/(Urban/R&B/Soul)

Singles/songs
 * 1983: "So Shy" ( featuring Bill Wolfer and Michael Jackson) from Wolf and "She Told Me So" (Elektra Records)
 * 1986: "God Loves a Broken Heart" (No. 1) and "Ain't It Pretty" from On the Run
 * 1988: "Friend in You" (No. 1), "The Wall" (featuring MC Hammer) and "Yah Mo B There" from Change of Heart
 * 1989: "Father Father", "In the Name of the Lord" and "Everyone Needs the Lord" (Top 5 Hits) with "Have a Talk with God" ( featuring Stevie Wonder) from Body & Soul
 * 1990: "Jesus Loves Ya" and "Love Come Down" (No. 1 Hits) from Jesus Loves Ya
 * 1991: "Jesus Loves Ya (Blackwell Remix)" and "Everybody Sing a Christmas Song" from The Hits
 * 1992: "Happy to Know Jesus" (featuring MC Peace), "Can't Live Without Jesus", "You Are the One", "Forever Friends" and "Found a Home" (Top 5 Hits including a No. 1) from Forever Friends
 * 1995: "Love Education" (Top Ten Hit) from Love Education
 * 2002: "Awesome God" from Soulful Hymns
 * 2012: "I'm on a Mission" from The Storyteller

2600:1702:1690:E10:19B2:37F5:ED48:57F0 (talk) 23:50, 5 September 2018 (UTC)

Archive talk page topics
These discussions are old and should be archived. There's also clearly a recidivism pattern/history of Walter edit-warring in the past without being blocked here and on other related articles, especially with IPs (many who haven't encountered any toxic "behavior" problems until Walter is involved). 137.27.65.235 (talk) 03:45, 22 September 2021 (UTC)


 * Per incivility and 3RR: (eg. Talk:Joe Bonamassa & ) 137.27.65.235 (talk) 04:52, 2 May 2022 (UTC)

Edit summary
Oops! Forgot edit summary for : notable music style per reference already provided. Editing8 (talk) 00:08, 28 February 2022 (UTC)