Talk:Jonathan Spector

Birthday
This is a silly edit war. Back up your edits with sources. It seems to mostly be a daft confusion over whether dd/mm/yy or mm/dd/yy ordering should be used, and since both dates seem to be kicking around the net, I've taken the date out. If you want it back in, at least provide a checkable source. Scans of Spector's passport, birth certificate, or actual confirmation from him or his mum is obviously preferred. Here's three to be going on with :
 * http://www.manutd.com/bio/bio.sps?iBiographyID=10444
 * http://www.essendonfc.com.au/manunited/player.asp?id=36
 * http://www.unitedrant.co.uk/archives/2006/01/preview_arsenal_away06.html

ANSWER: I read an article in a supporter magazine, where they had spesifically asked when his birthday is. He answered January 3rd. I can't link to this interview, since it is not on their homepage, but I have their profile page. Remember, it's a Norwegian page, so it's dd/mm/yy...


 * http://www.united.no/index.php/news/klubbhistorie/spillere/s/29_spector_jonathan

Soccer (football)
I don't think the word soccer poses any confusion. I personally feel football (soccer)/ soccer [no football] is more appropriate.

WikiProject class rating
This article was automatically assessed because at least one WikiProject had rated the article as start, and the rating on other projects was brought up to start class. BetacommandBot 07:09, 10 November 2007 (UTC)

Carling Cup Goals
They don't count towards the total on the right hand side, they are LEAGUE GOALS so stop adding them.. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.152.205.218 (talk) 20:39, 30 November 2010 (UTC)

Maybe we should wait when match end.Hope Spektor score one more time today :) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 91.78.199.53 (talk) 20:51, 30 November 2010 (UTC)

League goals for West Ham
Believe in this case Soccerbase is not accurate in recording his League goals for West Ham as 2. On the West Ham site it notes his goal against Derby as being credited by the dubious goals panel as an own goal by Eddie Lewis. Also noted here .--Egghead06 (talk) 07:44, 30 January 2012 (UTC)
 * Thanks for that. The 2010/11 Rothmans Sky Sports annual agrees. Had the same thing with a goal that was clearly IMO an own goal but the Dubious Goals Panel credited it to Cameron Jerome, though in his case the FL/PTV stats on his club profile page eventually caught up with reality even if Soccerbase hasn't. It is particularly stupid that the words on Mr Spector's West Ham profile mention the goal being chalked off, but the stats immediate below still include it... I'll revert myself, and add an explicit explanatory note somewhere. cheers, Struway2 (talk) 08:44, 30 January 2012 (UTC)

Jewish or not
An assertion that Spector is Jewish was recently added, citing a blog, a Jewish Journal piece, and an online magazine snippet that references the Jewish Journal.

However, Nate Bloom's syndicated column from June 2010 says the Jewish Journal was mistaken in identifying Spector as Jewish, which apparently they did "based simply on the fact that Jonathan's paternal grandfather, Art Spector, an original member of the Boston Celtics basketball team, was identified as Jewish in some sources". The column claims that Art Spector "was either raised Christian or converted to Christianity" and that the other grandparents were not Jewish. Spector himself certainly attended a Catholic high school. (This para loosely copied from the talk page of the editor who added the assertion)

Given the contradictory evidence, I've removed the assertion pending anything convincing, preferably from the mouth of Mr Spector himself, on the matter. cheers, Struway2 (talk) 09:40, 27 March 2014 (UTC)
 * That's sensible -- I'll revisit if a future copy of JSR comes in that bears on the point, as they speak directly with the player or with his representative. BTW -- online magazines are perfectly fine as RSs (I'm not sure if your above description was meant to denigrate the source) -- and Tablet Magazine is one such RS. Also, as you may or may not know, there are a number of Jews who have attended Christian high schools and colleges; that is not dispositive. Let's see what JSR says.--Epeefleche (talk) 15:51, 27 March 2014 (UTC)
 * Wasn't intending to disparage the source at all. Meant only that, as the Tablet piece was no more than a namecheck, and explicitly referenced the Jewish Journal piece, it didn't add anything to our knowledge on the subject. Sorry for any confusion. cheers, Struway2 (talk) 16:26, 27 March 2014 (UTC)
 * Understood. Best.Epeefleche (talk) 16:51, 27 March 2014 (UTC)
 * Have not had a chance to check the JSR yet, which bears directly on this. But I do notice that more recently, in June 2014, the Jewish Chronicle (long-standing publication; founded in 1841) indicated that he was Jewish. More to come. Epeefleche (talk) 20:52, 23 March 2015 (UTC)

External links modified
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 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20100515182222/http://www.whufc.com/articles/jonathan-spector-west-ham_2228487_30124 to http://www.whufc.com/articles/jonathan-spector-west-ham_2228487_30124
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20071213145453/http://www.whufc.com/page/PlayerProfilesDetail/0%2C%2C12562~30124%2C00.html to http://www.whufc.com/page/PlayerProfilesDetail/0%2C%2C12562~30124%2C00.html
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20100901100623/http://www.premierleague.com/page/PlayerProfile/0%2C%2C12306~30124%2C00.html to http://www.premierleague.com/page/PlayerProfile/0%2C%2C12306~30124%2C00.html

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Editor deletions
An editor has now repeatedly deleted the same reliable source supported material, for very different reasons, and the reasons are not legitimate, especially since effort has been made to satisfy ones (like "location" of the information) etc. If we have reliable source supported text, and he keeps deleted it, it does not look good. And if the reasons are bad, it does not look good. If this continues, I will ask an admin to look into this editing. We cannot have it on Wikipedia, and editors who do this are hurting the other editors and hurting wikipedia.

I reverted him and restored the reliable sourced content here.

Maybe some administrators who have dealt with this deleting editor can keep an eye on this article to help if he does it more .. he has now done it many times. Writing to User:El C and User:TigerShark and User:Bbb23 and User:HighInBC and User:Darkwind and User:Toddst1 and User:Chase me ladies, I'm the Cavalry and User:PeterSymonds and User:Kevin and User:EdJohnston and User:IanManka and User:Luk -- y'all keep blocking him, but he just keeps on fighting with editors, and trying to learn how to do it without getting blocked, but if you look at his history in this article and his history of blocks, you see his pattern. --2604:2000:E010:1100:8DCF:F3FE:605B:533 (talk) 01:38, 9 July 2018 (UTC)
 * You may be speaking about User:PeeJay2K3 though it is hard to know for sure, since you don't mention his name. Why not try to use the steps of WP:Dispute resolution to get consensus for your material? It will be easier for you to make your arguments if you will stop IP-hopping for a bit, or register an account. EdJohnston (talk) 04:07, 9 July 2018 (UTC)
 * I've objected to the addition of this information first of all because the sources are not adequate. Some of them simply include Spector in a list of Jewish soccer players without substantiating this claim, while the ones that do actually attempt to substantiate it say little more than that his grandfather, Art Spector, was Jewish. Since Art Spector is Jonathan's father's father and Judaism is passed down the matrilineal line, it seems a stretch to claim Jonathan Spector is himself Jewish. I've yet to see anything that says Jonathan considers himself Jewish or follows any of the practices, so at the minute, there's no real reason to consider him as such. Furthermore, the info was added simply as a sentence saying, "He is Jewish". This adds nothing to the encyclopaedia except to get the reader to scratch their head and say, "so what?" – PeeJay 12:12, 9 July 2018 (UTC)
 * I haven't blocked anyone for years now. It's beneath me, I'm far too important. Chase me ladies, I'm the Cavalry (Message me) 20:12, 12 November 2018 (UTC)
 * If Orthodox, PJ is correct. But nobody says he is Orthodox. Reform Jews, for example, pass it through the father alternatively. PJ really doesn't understand what he is talking about - there is no need for someone to follow any practices to be Jewish. They are commonly born Jewish, just as Americans are commonly born American - they don't have to say the Pledge of Allegiance to be American, and they don't have to "follow practices" to be Jewish. That's simply ignorant. As to the last point, when someone says that a person was born on date x - "so what?" Or that their middle name is y - "so what?" Or that they were born in town z - "so what?" The thing is, this is covered by RSs, and therefore of the stuff that is appropriate for the article. The sources are clear and abundant, and the deletions are borderline vandalism - actual vandalism if they continue. BTW, I'm not IP hopping, but my computer automatically on its own (not my doing) does change IP addresses at times, within a range.--2604:2000:E010:1100:3CD3:9AC3:AED2:9C02 (talk) 22:43, 10 September 2020 (UTC)
 * Thanks for finally getting back to us, two years later. So you're claiming Spector is a Reform Jew now? The fact is, we don't know what religion he subscribes to. We see websites trying to claim him as Jewish, but there's no evidence that he actually is Jewish or considers himself to be so, which is the key point that you have failed to address. – PeeJay 19:01, 11 September 2020 (UTC)
 * No. I'm claiming it is OR for you to assert what type of Jew he is. What are you going to do next -- assert a Black man is not an American, because x% of Americans are not Black men? That makes no sense at all. What we have is RSs saying he is Jewish. WP is built on statements by RSs. We don't require photos of circumcised members. We don't require photos of grandparents' graves.  Just as we have RSs saying he is American. In neither case is it required that they do more than state the fact. You can't make up your own rules.
 * Also - please don't delete dead refs. That's not how its done. Please read KDL.2604:2000:E010:1100:C44B:B2F0:71E2:B05F (talk) 05:27, 14 September 2020 (UTC)
 * Dead refs are not useful if the only reason they were included in the first place was to bloat the number of citations for a single claim. You never needed to provide seven refs for this claim, especially since one of them doesn't mention Spector's alleged Jewishness. Also, I never asserted he was any kind of Jew, I asserted that it was my understanding that were he Jewish it would have probably come down his mother's line and that the only evidence we have for him being Jewish in the first place is a bunch of claims with no substance to them. The refs you provided merely assert that he is Jewish with nothing to back up those claims. You can come up with all the straw man examples you like, but until we have a source that actually quotes Spector stating in the affirmative that he is Jewish, we don't actually have grounds to include that info in this article. – PeeJay 15:31, 14 September 2020 (UTC)