Talk:Joni Mitchell/Archive 1

Influence on other artists
Joni Mitchell is one of the greatest song-writers of all time. Surely a more impressive list of artists she's influenced could be found? I would rather the list currently given be removed than remain in its current state - it's not representative of her standing at all, so is irrelevant in my opinion. For instance - George Michael? Madonna? Please. Most of the other artists are minor.

Dylan's use of open tunings on Blood On The Tracks - a legendary album, of course - was most likely heavily influenced by Joni Mitchell. The Heylin biography of Dylan, if I recall correctly, is a reference for this. Perhaps someone could dig it out and mention this? --172.202.206.191 08:35, 15 June 2007 (UTC)

This page does not represent in just form the influence and the relevance Joni Mitchell has brought upon established artists, notables and the general public. I am not a writer, but there must be someone who will write a more astute account of her life. A few things I know from reputable interviews given by the following notables, and a live discussion by Joni Mitchell; 1. In a past Rolling Stone interview, Prince stated that Joni Mitchell was his biggest musical and lyrical influence. On most of his compiled recordings he makes some reference to her. 2. Dylan is one of the only people from her past she still speaks with and he refers to her as his equal but only when he thinks of her as a man. 3. The King of Sweden requested her presence at a banquet, at his palace, to honor her for her brilliance and for his personal love of her music. 4. President Clinton named his daughter Chelsea after Joni Mitchell's song "Chelsea Morning". 5. Charles Mingus wrote six songs titled, Joni 1,2,3,4,5,6,. He sought her out to write the lyrics to them even though he had not yet met her when he wrote the songs. 6. Joni Mitchell's speech at The Commonwealth Club of San Francisco, challenged organized religion in a form comparable to Richard Dawkins, and summed up the demise of the earth and the human specie more        profoundly then most renowned philosophers. 7. An Ivy league American University (I can't remember which one), teaches a class on the analysis of Joni Mitchell's music.

These are a few items that I hope will inspire an intelligent and interested writer, to rewrite some of this page so as to represent her more accurately. I am no Mitchell expert but I just happened to come to this discussion page and felt I should comment on the few things I do know. SurferStan

External link
Under "External Link" should include www.jonimitchell.com
 * Your wish is my command -- User:GWO

Your link to "Chuck Mitchell" is not correct. It links to an actor named Chuck Mitchell who was not her husband.

Suggestion for 'Vocalists with stylistic connections'
I think perhaps Tori Amos should be added to this list. Anyone who seconds this, is welcome to do the addition. Maybe just my opinion.

Vocalists with stylistic connections
I've removed this section from the article. It seems very POV to me. I can imagine it being rewritten as a NPOV section discussing Joni's influence and connections with other singers. Unless the connections are stated explicitly and backed up with sources I don't think this section should be in the article. (Though it can continue to remain here on the talk page.) I can imagine something like...

So-and-so credits Mitchell as being the inspiration of her singing style. In a 19XX interview So-and-so said "blah blah blah Joni Mitchell..." ==Samuel Wantman 06:39, 29 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Here's the list as it was before being removed...


 * Tori Amos
 * Björk
 * Alanis Morissette —Preceding unsigned comment added by Paladin91 (talk • contribs) 21:21, 27 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Kate Bush
 * Iris Dement
 * Nanci Griffith
 * Emmylou Harris
 * Rickie Lee Jones
 * Maynard James Keenan
 * Suzanne Vega
 * Liz Simcock
 * Bridget St. John
 * Indigo Girls
 * Ani Difranco
 * Chan Marshall of Cat Power

Ani Difranco said once 'These alternative tunings always seem like a real good idea when I'm at home and they're written out in front of me. I once saw Joni Mitchell play a show and she was just standing there for like ten minutes going, 'ah..., ah...' trying to re-tune her guitar to some ridiculous tuning. I felt that it affirmed my whole life.....

You know it's funny, I spent last August with Mr. Bob Dylan. I was touring/opening shows for him and ever since then...all the interviewers keep asking me..'What was it like touring with God?' and 'What words of wisdom did he bestow upon you?'...There's this kind of religion of hyperbole that surrounds Bob and 'long live the church of Bob.' You know, I would never attempt heresy in that area, especially not in my line of work, but it's funny because Bob was never really a deity for me, not anywhere near the scope of which Joni Mitchell was and I think that respecting his work...is a good idea...he's done quite a few cool things...but it seems that in the states, the canon of Bob seems to become deeper and richer and more ingrained in my culture every day and Joni seems to be systematically forgotten and periodically condescended to by the media....It's really strange to me, not as strange as I wish it was to me. It's actually quite familiar.

I think there's something very elusive about, the sort of liberal, open, inclusive, revolutionary, folk singing, change the world 60's scene that wasn't quite ready for a babe. To listen to people talk these days, it seems like all those voices have come down to one, in our collective memory. Anyway, I'd just like to put my vote in for Joni....as I'm struggling with this tuning..." (80.46.170.115 20:34, 6 May 2005 (UTC))

'when making someone unaware aware of Mitchell's allure, he would simply "roll them a joint", and ask that they enjoy the experience.'

Am I the only one who finds this desperately unclear?
 * No, really not. I presume it means someone unaware of JM's allure is made aware with the joint. (How that increases awareness is quite another Q.)
 * On a separate issue, saying "pregnant with no other option" is, IMHO, POV. From a purely neutral standpoint, surely abortion is an option. Whether JM accepted it as an option is another matter; if N, say so. If that's the writer's POV, take it out. (I shan't, I've no idea what she thought.)

One bit of trivia, if anybody cares (or thinks it should go in), Graham Nash played harmonica on "I'm a Radio" (or so I heard...) Trekphiler 10:42, 21 December 2005 (UTC)
 * "I really tried to make sense out of your comments on the Joni Mitchell page. You must have really been high, try pulling your head out of your ass.... 209.244.31.190"
 * You wanna be an asshole, do it somewhere else. Leave it off my page. My only "hi" comment was "One bit of trivia, if anybody cares (or thinks it should go in), Graham Nash played harmonica on "I'm a Radio" (or so I heard...)". Pull your own head out of your ass. Or call your proctologist. Trekphiler 20:07, 15 March 2007 (UTC)

Delisted GA
Hi. I have removed this article from the Good article listing due to the following:
 * No references. One of the GA criteria is that a reference section must be provided.  Inline citations are preferred but not required.  When this issue has been addressed, please feel free to re-nominate.  Thanks! Air.dance 04:06, 25 March 2006 (UTC)

It is now 2011, and I see that the reason for delisting has been addressed. So why hasn't this article been re-nominated as a GA? I can't believe no one noticed. I'd do it myself, but I'm not a member. 69.143.84.116 (talk) 23:13, 14 January 2011 (UTC)

It is now 2021, and it seems that the reason for delisting has been addressed. So why hasn't this article been re-nominated as a GA?

Big Yellow Taxi
On the list of her hit singles, I don't see "Big Yellow Taxi" listed. I am pretty sure that was a hit of Mitchell's. Can anyone verify the date of it's release on radio? fishhead2100 May 1, 2006 12:02AM (UTC)


 * It's listed twice, once in 1970, then live recording in 1975. Look again ...  Wasted Time R 10:40, 1 May 2006 (UTC)

Patricia Barber
I think something like this should be inserted into Influences section:

Also, jazz pianist Patricia Barber cites Joni Mitchell as a major influence for her album "Verse".

It could be formulated in a nicer way, of course. Anyway, if someone is interested, here is the source:

http://www.patriciabarber.com/press/allaboutjazz2002.htm

May-hem 17:02, 3 August 2006 (UTC)

Maidstone, Saskatchewan
We're missing Maidstone (and North Battleford) from the "Early Life" section: see []. I think this is a significant omission, since Maidstone is one of the very few Canadian places mentioned by Joni Mitchell in her song lyrics ("Song For Sharon").

Solness 14:32, 31 October 2006 (UTC)

"Woodstock"
The page on Woodstock (song) says she passed up playing there to be on the Tonight Show, but this page says it she was playing on the Dick Cavvett show. If anyone knows which one it was, could you fix whichever? --Chinawhitecotton 23:24, 17 May 2007 (UTC)
 * It was Cavett, for certain. NickBurns 18:34, 30 May 2007 (UTC)

Artists who are influenced
Listen, I love Joni, etc. but quite frankly, if we listed every person influenced by her the article would need its own server.

I'm thinking we should keep the list as succinct as possible. One other option is to create a page on its own of artists influenced by her. That would keep things clear. NickBurns 18:34, 30 May 2007 (UTC)

That isn't a bad idea though. I was going to mention Fairport Convention, who covered several of her songs as early as 1968 (They played "Chelsea Morning" on their first album) 172.212.38.134 11:17, 20 August 2007 (UTC)

Develop a link to The Gaslight South
The manager of the Gaslight South, Samuel Leighton Hood, passed away recently according to a September 7, 2007 NYT obituary: http://groups.google.com/group/alt.obituaries/browse_thread/thread/b072c7dcba985379/40d4b90e98a8f67e  It would be nice to develop a page for The Gaslight and the Gaslight South and perhaps Samuel Leighton Hood, it was where Joni was "discovered" by David Crosby and it was an important venue in other ways. southern students for choice 00:31, 13 September 2007 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:Joni MilesofAisles.jpg
Image:Joni MilesofAisles.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images uploaded after 4 May, 2006, and lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.BetacommandBot 06:22, 5 June 2007 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:Hejira.jpg
Image:Hejira.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images uploaded after 4 May, 2006, and lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.BetacommandBot 23:13, 5 June 2007 (UTC)

Fair use - discography
The use of images not in compliance with our fair-use criteria or our policy on nonfree content is not appropriate, and the images have been removed. Please do not restore them. -- Merope 18:50, 25 June 2007 (UTC)

Opinion piece
I don't normally tag articles as I prefer to work on them myself but this article has far too much opinons than I feel capable of dealing with. If you look at this you can see where I removed some of the material that looks like it should have been in a magazine article. There is no way an encyclopedia article should contain a sentence starting with "I" nor should it be commenting on her smoking. These could be included if they were direct quotes from another source.

Some of the material that needs removing or re-writing can be seen in the Joni Mitchell section. Read the last paragraph. It contains phrases like "...the album is one her most innocent and beautiful collections of material." There are also sentences like "Those who consider her a musical genius of the first rank at first may not detect the same level of brilliance displayed in her paintings." which again is an opinion piece. CambridgeBayWeather (Talk) 15:01, 18 December 2007 (UTC)

Wikipedia's creators seem to love mediocrity and subjective information so long as it is "cited"
I have to agree with CambridgeBayWeather. There were long stretches of the article that reflected someone's intimate knowledge of Joni Mitchell's discography and her musical, social, and cultural impact going all the way back to her early days, which was before most readers and contributors to this website were born. Some of this info was detailed and specific. I've removed all of that material, which I personally contributed. My assessment of Wikipedia has gone down several notches after seeing what gets added to certain articles, what gets edited out quickly, and what remains without objection -- for example, all that crap about Joni's musical legacy by some dipwit who doesn't know the first thing about Joni Mitchell and was probably born yesterday. I would only suggest to all the kids running this website that perhaps they ought to take a good science or history course. Citations from almost any magazine, newspaper, or even book you can name are not necessarily any more credible or accurate than an informed individual's opinion, and in fact, may be less so, especially today, when any sort of drivel can be published while well thought-out and researched material is regularly and routinely rejected by established publishing interests. If you kids don't know this yet, then you shouldn't be attempting to write an encyclopedia until you've learned a lot more about life. (Papa'sHeir 12-26-07) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Papa'sHeir (talk • contribs) 12:32, 26 December 2007 (UTC)

- I read over some of your stuff and thought it was fantastic, but perhaps better suited to the articles on her individual albums rather than her biography? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 220.237.33.95 (talk) 11:27, 2 January 2008 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:JoniMitchellWomanHeart-1.jpg
Image:JoniMitchellWomanHeart-1.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images lacking such an explanation can be deleted one week after being tagged, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.

BetacommandBot (talk) 22:51, 2 January 2008 (UTC)

Smoker
Joni is a lifelong and committed smoker. Is this worth a mention in the article somewhere?  SmokeyTheCat   •TALK•  14:22, 29 February 2008 (UTC)

JoniMitchell.com - official?
JoniMitchell.com has an impressive URL and very nice design, but it doesn't appear official. The legal section there says:


 * JoniMitchell.com is privately maintained, managed, funded, and hosted by Les Irvin, who is solely responsible for its content.
 * Neither Joni Mitchell, her management, her record company, or other affiliated organizations have any involvement whatsoever in the site's content and financial decisions etc.

So it looks like it's a private site. I'm changing the external link title. --Amir E. Aharoni (talk) 12:45, 16 March 2008 (UTC)

Vandalism, and ethnicity
(1) I notice that on the Sami People page, Joni Mitchell is listed (and pictured) as a famous person of Sami descent. If true (and I've no reason to doubt it), it would be good to have a mention of this in her own article, which I can't currently see.
 * She has said in an interview that her father is Norwegian Sami, and her mother is Irish. But I'm not sure where in the article this should go.  lk (talk) 15:07, 19 May 2008 (UTC)

I've put a bit in at the start, quoting from the Irish Times. I don't think that her mother was Irish by birth; Mitchell simply "notes that she has Scottish and Irish blood", as well as Norwegian. Nevertheless, I have heard her claim on television that she was influenced by her Irish ancestry. Read into that what you will. Millbanks (talk) 19:42, 19 July 2008 (UTC)

(2) Completely unrelatedly, I noticed on coming here (to check out the above) a couple of vandalisms in the second para of the lede. Someone who knows how might like to revert them.

Bright Blessings on Beltane! 87.81.230.195 (talk) 07:26, 1 May 2008 (UTC)

Juno Awards
Interestingly, there seems to be no mention of her Juno Awards awards, except for the category but her Grammy Awards are mentioned. Strange considering she is Canadian. NorthernThunder (talk) 09:17, 11 June 2008 (UTC)

I was wondering about this too, it seems like she must have won a Juno at some point. But there's no mention. 21:15, 23 October 2010 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 173.180.218.83 (talk)

First husband
Was this Chuck Mitchell her ex-husband? Nietzsche 2 (talk) 02:04, 28 March 2009 (UTC)

Nothing about her threats to quit songwriting?
Is there a reason her threats to quit songwriting (and her widely reported attack on Madonna) are nowhere here?

Here's a source. VsevolodKrolikov (talk) 02:34, 13 August 2009 (UTC)

Contralto?
In her early recordings she has an incredible soprano voice (listen to "Morning Morgantown") - she is now contralto, probably because of her smoking habit, but shouldn't this article describe her voice more accurately? Guinevere50 (talk) 22:52, 23 May 2010 (UTC)

Guitar style
"The use of alternative tunings allows more varied and complex harmonies to be produced on the guitar, without the need for difficult chord shapes"

Not accurate. Alternative tunings give the guitar a different overall sound (in terms of chords and resonance) to the standard tuning that is used most often. Michael Hedges recognised & used this fact to create a unique sound. Some harmonies will be easier in a different tuning, some harder.

Open tunings allow you to play chords with the minimum of complex fingering, yes, not 'more varied and complex harmonies'. JM, being a natural musician, sought out the sounds she wanted, but I imagine the ease of playing chords was important in her choice of tunings --92.0.129.69 (talk) 10:53, 30 June 2010 (UTC)

open guitar tunings
Open guitar tunings do not allow or encourage an increase in the complexity of harmony. In fact, they often decrease it a whole lot. For example, if the open strings together create a D-major chord, then any full-strum chord wanting none of those notes must somehow close all six strings. With standard classical tuning, there are no chords that occupy such a default position, inhibiting the playing of distant chords.

The kind of complexity that open tunings allow is not harmonic complexity. It's timbral complexity, perhaps, and registral breadth. The hand on the fretboard has more positions available to it corresponding to the open-tuned chord, and to some related chords, because many open strings are automatically amenable to those chords. As long as the chord progression remains simple, and not too chromatic, the range of timbres, rhythmic patterns, and textures broadens beautifully.

"Joni's weird chords" is a phrase often associated with the feeling of colorful harmony in her songs, but very few of her chords, or her chord progressions, are actually weird when played, for example, on the piano. It's the newness of the string combinations and diversity of hand positions that makes them interesting. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Blcarson (talk • contribs) 22:17, 30 October 2010 (UTC)

Article- especially influence section- needs massive cleanup
First off- this article trails off toward the end into a ridiculous mess, an endless list of acts who covered Mitchell and/or were supposedly influenced by her music, some of which are simply middle of the road adult pop female singer songwriters who not only bear little resemblance to the majority of Mitchell's work (imo), but have no source listed for why they are listed as influenced by her- whether they themselves said so, whether they made clear on multiple occasions their work was influenced by her (i.e. Prince- covered her and referenced her, made abortive attempts to work with her, said Hissing is his favorite album of all time; Bjork- covered her, said Don Juan's was the first album she ever obsessed over, has been compared by critics and entire career path seems influenced by her) or it was more of a one-time thing, just saying they had one of her albums or liked a song or something.

What kind of atrocity would Dylan's article be, if it included a similar list of everyone who had ever been compared to Dylan, let alone everyone who ever publicly said they liked him or respected him, or even a list of every act who had covered him- Mitchell is on that same level in terms of influence and covers. With a less prominent, less iconic musician, perhaps it would be alright just to have a list of everyone who was a follower. But with Mitchell, there are so many wannabes, we need to sort the weed from the chaff. The hangers-on who appear to have relatively limited interest in Mitchell's work, but simply cited her as an icon among other icons, need to be excised from the article. Those commercially prominent and/or highly respected musicians for whom she had a more profound artistic or personal influence- whether or not Mitchell herself likes them being compared to her- should be included, within limits.

Of course, we do this according to reputable sources, not our personal opinions of who actually sounds Mitchel-like. Actually, we should endeavor to include those musicians who DON'T necessarily fall into Mitchell's commonly accepted genres, but are prominent in their own fields and are well documented fans of hers. It is a given that Mitchell would be seen as an influence by pretty much any sensitive guitar/piano singer songwriter, given that she is credited with helping to invent that form of expression. It is unnecessary to list every last middle of the road female singer who ever namedropped her. On the other hand, the fact that Maynard James Keenan- a highly notable artist in the genre of metal and hard rock- is a fan of hers and recorded and released a cover of a relatively obscure Mitchell song, is relevant to the section (which currently assumes that readers are familiar with the genre of Keenan's band A Perfect Circle, not identifying it as the un-Mitchell-like hard rock band it is). The fact that James Blake, one of the most respected and hyped young artists in electronic music this year, has spoken so much of being influenced by her, is relevant, especially given that he even managed, through some magic, to get reclusive, Morgellons-afflicted 2011 Joni, who has professed little interest in ANY form of music for over a decade (even jazz, let alone modern, hipster-approved dubstep R&B pop) to attend one of his concerts (this was on his first ever US tour- and the guy is 22 or something), where he covered A Case of You, as he did in many more concerts this year throughout North America.

Ideally, once we excise the vast majority of irrelevant artists from the list, brief quotes about Mitchell's actual influence on a few of the more notable and musically diverse artists would be included. For instance, even an actual, brief quote from Prince about HOW she influenced him would be nice. So far all we have is Madonna. No offense to Madonna, but lots of girls loved Court and Spark and Blue. Would we allow a Beatles article to include a quote from say, Liam Gallagher, about loving Sgt. Pepper? I dunno if that would be judged notable. It seems like a double standard. Madonna's quote is notable, I suppose, because she identifies a connection between Mitchell's WRITING and her own- not just saying she's a fan- but we need more quotes like that from more people- the impression given right now is that Mitchell's major inspiration was on mainstream pop and rock stars- along with an unordered list of other acts. This is not borne out by the facts. Mitchell's influence on more alternative forms of music, as well as the jazz/R&B side of things, was very strong. No one genre consistently embraced all of her work, but different of her albums have been influential on different artists.

The section should also be revised so that it's more than a list of artists who were influenced by her- the influence Mitchell has had really should also be fleshed out with brief quotes from notable cultural critics about what exactly that influence has been in different areas- from the musical influence of her guitar tunings to the social import, if any, of her lyrics to the precedent she set with her career path. Plenty of notable writers weighed in on those things- even solid sources like All Music or Rolling Stone are hardly as notable as it gets for quotes about Mitchell. Mitchell, if she was not immediately an unprecedented figure when she appeared- like Dylan- became one by time she put out Blue, For the Roses and Court and Spark, not to mention by her jazz period- which has very few parallels in any mainstream commercial artist's career as far as turning one's back, over the course of four or five albums, on mainstream fans to embrace greater abstraction, rhythm over melody, texture over radio hooks- there are a few noted examples, but not many. In reading the original reviews of her work, as I've just been doing, you get the sense that, far from being someone who has been elevated out of nostalgia to a status she did not enjoy in her prime, she was seen as unprecedented even when her albums were first released, and that was when many of the albums now most praised (Hejira, for instance) were not particularly well liked by those same critics. A Mitchell article therefore, whether one likes her music or hates it, demands a seriousness about sources which is lacking in this one, and calls for the kind of well sourced, selective, carefully balanced quotations that other articles on major figures of the era- from Michael Jackson to Nirvana- employ. Reading this article, one does not get much specific sense of Mitchell's place in history. That she has one is indisputable.

I feel inadequate to do anything with an "influence" or "legacy" section that would be NPOV, and I will leave that to someone more experienced with those things. However, I've been working on the history sections of this article, which are inadequate as is. Their overall vagueness, lack of many direct quotes (from reviews, Mitchell herself, et al) and general sense of having not had much reading over, fleshing out, polishing, has yielded a text embarassing and apalling in its sloppiness for someone of Mitchell's major importance, with a focus on certain random trivia and a lack of many notable and important events in her career. To make matters worse, of the information that is actually here, much isn't even sourced, including some errors I corrected. These outright errors, three so far, were very serious. At least one of them- the claim that Mitchell's third album Ladies of the Canyon, and by implication her second, Clouds, had been produced not by herself (as it was- no other producer is credited on the sleeve or in any interview or review I've ever found) but by David Crosby, is almost at the Seigenthaler level of error, considering Mitchell's known truculence about defending her legacy. Crosby only produced her first, Song to a Seagull, and both Mitchell and Crosby agree his production role even there was a formality.

If you know anything about Mitchell, you know she is not a fan of even well-meaning journalists whose summary of her is less respectful of her brilliance than she believes fair. And I don't even want to imagine what her response would be to a Wikipedia article which makes outright false claims crediting others with work she did and was always credited as doing- there is no debate over it- Crosby certainly never said he'd actually produced Ladies of the Canyon. Worst of all, this is one of those cases where the errors (all of which appear to have been here for years, uncorrected) have already passed into the web from which they may be uncorrectable. Is there a name for this? There must be- it's one of the persistent problems I've noticed with Wikipedia over the years. The encyclopedia itself is self-correcting, given enough time. But this fails to take into account the viral nature of Wikipedia articles in a world in which Wikipedia has become accepted as the first layman's source of information on every possible subject area, certainly music and popular culture. As we know, bad journalists- and even some respected ones, working for highly reputable sources- routinely use Wikipedia as a source- without ever admitting it, of course. The better ones will re-check anything they learn here, source it properly, and then paraphrase (at the very least) from our wording, but some don't bother- our text here is public domain after all. And therefore what happens when, as inevitably happens, Wikipedia contains false information which it is able to correct eventually, but over time that information gets "laundered" into respectable sources? I find that scary. 70.108.87.64 (talk) 17:27, 12 October 2011 (UTC)

Influence on other artists
Hello, I've used Wikipedia quite a lot. From time to time I correct some orthographic mistakes some few articles may have. Today I joined Wikipedia. :)

Ok, What I edited is the addition of Marit Larsen as artist influenced by Joni Mitchell. Marit has stated several times her admiration for her. Many of them can be found on interviews found on YouTube. But the most simple source is her Facebook and her MySpace. I only added her Facebook.

Thank you.

WD C.000.000.000 (talk) 04:56, 20 February 2012 (UTC)


 * Sorry, but that won't work here. Read the edit summary. -- Brangifer (talk) 08:39, 20 February 2012 (UTC)
 * I agree with the reversion, but for different reasons: we don't need yet another person tacked onto the list! In reply to the edit summary, she does have a Wikipedia article, and a person's Facebook profile can be used as a source for something they said, but IMO a real interview with a journalist in a reliable secondary source would be much much better here. Graham 87 14:25, 20 February 2012 (UTC)

Hello,

With close to 600 cover versions of "Both Sides Now," I know you can't list them all, but perhaps mentioning Frank Sinatra's recording of it would illustrate how that song transcended the youth culture it came from and caught the ear of perhaps the most important singer of swing generation. It's no surprise that Sarah Mclachlan, Tori Amos, or Aimee Mann would record a Joni Mitchell song, as Mitchell blazed the way for them and many other songwriters, but Old Blue Eyes doing Joni's material is something that could have only happened in a narrow window of history, when standards singers were trying to connect to contemporary pop audiences in a way that was soon abandoned. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.136.246.169 (talk) 04:29, 17 October 2012 (UTC)

Father's ancestry
Could someone please clarify whether her father was Norwegian Sami (as in, ethnic Sami from Norway) or of mixed Norwegian and Sami ancestry? I realize this may seem insignificant to outsiders, but given the history of more or less forced "Norwegianization" in Northern Norway, it's a big deal to a lot of Sami people. Maitreya (talk) 11:52, 12 October 2012 (UTC)

Article Runon
This article is far too long and speaks as if it's written by Joni herself. There are people far more famous with articles 1/4 the length. Why so much? It's as if someone wrote an entire biography and couldn't get it published so they copy/pasted it here. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.82.209.86 (talk) 07:48, 3 March 2014 (UTC)

It's a bit long. But organization and avoiding trivia are more important than length. Side note: It shouldn't call her "Joni" — Preceding unsigned comment added by Howunusual (talk • contribs) 22:54, 26 April 2014 (UTC)

JM claims she's "much more original" musically than B. Dylan, Nov, 2014.
diffuser.fm/joni-mitchell-bob-dylan-interview/ JM "claims that she's  a better  musician than Bob Dylan. 'I am much more original musically', Mitchell explained, 'and a much more original thinker.' ” 74.60.161.158 (talk) 19:10, 24 November 2014 (UTC)