Talk:Jonjo Shelvey

Untitled
Is Jonjo actually on his birth certificate?--MartinUK (talk) 22:54, 23 September 2009 (UTC)


 * Based on http://www.findmypast.com/post84BMDSearchStart.action?&submit=1&redef=X&searchType=B&fromYear=1990&toYear=1994&forename1=jonjo%20&surname=shelvey believe it is.--Egghead06 (talk) 06:02, 24 September 2009 (UTC)

Removed part of sentence stating "Liverpool, Britain's most successful club side"
Statement not referenced and possibly inaccurate?

basalisk (talk) 16:56, 28 April 2010 (UTC)

28/4/2010

Bald
I have a pest reverting my edits to indicate that Shelvey is bald. They are using the typical Wikipedia red tape to inevitably block me from editing. It is a fact that Shelvey is bald, and Wikipedia is supposedly all fact based, so I cannot see this person's problem. I think it is worth mentioning in the article, so if anyone feels the same way, please add a mention to his baldness. I would gladly add it back, except the aforementioned pest is just waiting to block me. CyberWallrus (talk) 18:10, 12 February 2011 (UTC)
 * Not every fact belongs in every article. That he's bald is not notable unless reliable sources actually discuss the baldness. --Onorem♠Dil 19:18, 12 February 2011 (UTC)

But, he's bald! CyberWallrus (talk) 21:22, 12 February 2011 (UTC)
 * Yes, he is bald. He also has 2 hands. I suppose we should be sure to mention that fact prominently as well? --Onorem♠Dil 21:24, 12 February 2011 (UTC)
 * That is a similar comparison. I bet 1/4 of the people living are bald or somewhat so. WikiCopter (♠ • ♣ &bull; ♥ • ♦ &bull; simple • commons • lost • cvu • onau) 01:27, 13 February 2011 (UTC)

I think you guys are missing the point. He is bald, this is a fact. In order to improve the article, a mention of the baldness should be included. For example, what would happen if a blind person was reading the article. Without mention of the baldness, the reader would never know of this fact. CyberWallrus (talk) 16:34, 13 February 2011 (UTC)

I see no one is contesting my point. I will add the reference back. CyberWallrus (talk) 23:29, 14 February 2011 (UTC)
 * I'm still contesting it. I see that nobody has agreed with any point you've made. It's silly trivia. If he wasn't bald, would you want to describe the color, length, and style of his hair in the opening line? Find a reference that discusses it. Otherwise, I'm sticking with 'who cares'? --Onorem♠Dil 23:34, 14 February 2011 (UTC)

I refer you back to the point I made above on 16:34, 13 February 2011 (UTC) CyberWallrus (talk) 23:36, 14 February 2011 (UTC)
 * I saw your post yesterday. Unless sources discuss it, I still don't see a reason to include it. --Onorem♠Dil 23:46, 14 February 2011 (UTC)
 * Not that I agree with including it either way...is he actually bald, or does he just have a shaved head? Bald at 18 might be uncommon enough that we could expect to find sources. If he shaves his head, I'm sticking even more with 'who cares'? --Onorem♠Dil 23:51, 14 February 2011 (UTC)

If he is actually totally bald through some medical condition, that might be of interest and could be mentioned as an additional biographical fact somewhere in the article, subject to being sourced. What is not only inappropriate but plainly ridiculous is the opening sentence "Jonjo Shelvey is a bald footballer..". What overrides everything is that Wikipedia biographical pages begin with nationality and what the person's occupation or sphere of activity is or was. For example, if he had one arm, it would still not be appropriate to open with "Jon Shelvey is a one-armed footballer". You would mention it further on in a separate sentence. Dubmill (talk) 10:30, 15 February 2011 (UTC)
 * Describing the physical features of people, unless significant, in Wikipedia articles opens up a whole can of worms. You'd end up with sections saying things like so-and-so is 6 foot tall with red hair, blue eyes, freckles and a prominent mole on their left cheek. All 'facts' but none of which benefits the quality of the article. Ilikeeatingwaffles (talk) 10:42, 15 February 2011 (UTC)


 * The following page explains clearly how the introductory paragraph of a Wikipedia biography page should be written: Manual_of_Style_(biographies) Dubmill (talk) 10:53, 15 February 2011 (UTC)

Ok folks, some good points there. I have read the Manual of Style (biographies), and including a mention of baldness in the first paragraph does not benefit the article. However, it should be noted, and as Dubmill posted above at 10:30, 15 February 2011 (UTC), "you would mention it further on in a separate sentence." So I will do exactly that. CyberWallrus (talk) 00:05, 16 February 2011 (UTC)


 * You have rather distorted what I said. I said 'would', not 'should', and in addition I was referring to the imaginary scenario in which Shelvey had one arm. Regarding his baldness, it has already been stated that it would need to be established if he is bald because of some medical condition. If that can be shown, there might be a case for including a sentence about it, but it would definitely need to be supported by an external reference. Even then, that's just my opinion and others might still regard it as inappropriate. By the way, if he merely shaves his head, there would not be any case whatsoever for mentioning it in the article. Dubmill (talk) 21:27, 17 February 2011 (UTC)
 * Wikipedia works by consensus, and the consensus seems to be that his baldness is not noteworthy, and even if it was there is no third party reliable source stating that he is bald, rather than that he chooses to shave his head. Ilikeeatingwaffles (talk) 09:47, 18 February 2011 (UTC)

'What would happen if a blind person was reading the article', how do you suggest blind people read it? With a braille screen? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.153.76.35 (talk) 00:55, 12 November 2011 (UTC)

Lock article?
Seems like abuse is spiraling right now with Liverpool playing against Manchester United. loffe (talk) 13:34, 23 September 2012 (UTC)

Goal celebration
I have added information regarding his goal celebration. Unfortunately I could only find two reliable sources giving his explanation of it - if anyone has more, please do add. I put this information in the "personal life" heading, which doesn't seem quite right, but I did not think it is worthy of its own section. However, it is very noteworthy and needs to be in there somewhere. Salim555 (talk) 22:36, 15 October 2012 (UTC)

I added information regarding Shelvey's famous goal celebration. This has proper references to external sources and was (I believe) properly written. However, this information was removed by the user "Ilikeeatingwaffles" on the grounds that this information is trivial and not from reliable sources. I do not wish to get into an edit war, so I will not simply re-add the information without discussion, but I would like to point out:

1. When a player has an unusual repeated goal celebration, it is normally mentioned in their wikipedia article. For example, I cite the precedent of the article on "Lomana LuaLua" which states "LuaLua is known for a spectacular goal celebration, which consists of seven back flips and a backward somersault; the celebration stems from his interest in gymnastics."

2. Jonjo Shelvey has a very unusual and remarked-upon goal celebration. To say this information is "trivial" is to disregard precedent, and is meaningless - almost anything can be regarded as trivial. The article mentions that he is bald, that he was Charlton's youngest player, that he scored with a header against Udinese; this is all trivia, in a sense. But it's also information about the subject's football career and public actions. One of the things for which Shelvey is most notable is his goal celebration. Wikipedia should contain the notable information about a subject, which this clearly is.

3. I am not saying that the whole article should be a long discussion of his goal celebration. That would be disproportionate and ridiculous. It should just be one sentence, stating what his goal celebration is and his reason for doing it.

4. It is possible that the sources I used were not the best. In this case, the solution is not to remove the information entirely, but to get better sources.

I hope that this is a reasonable discussion and please would welcome any comments about this; we should proceed by consensus about this matter as otherwise the article will be sadly lacking important information.Salim555 (talk) 02:10, 15 November 2012 (UTC)

I notice that no-one has responded to my comments. Therefore I will take it that no-one objects, and I will put back the notes about the goal celebration. If anyone does in fact object, please let's discuss the matter civilly here; I do not wish for an edit war. Salim555 (talk) 18:44, 19 November 2012 (UTC)

Newcastle's relegation
I've noticed a few edits referring to Newcastle as a Championship (or even Championship League, which is snooker) club. Even though Newcastle have been relegated, they are still, for now, a Premier League club. Can we wait until at least after the final match of the season (preferably even after the play-offs) to make this change? Andrew (talk) 23:18, 11 May 2016 (UTC)
 * That is the standard procedure. If they were a Championship club they wouldn't be hosting Spurs on Sunday &#39;&#39;&#39;tAD&#39;&#39;&#39; (talk) 23:21, 11 May 2016 (UTC)
 * Agree it should remain the same until at least the end of the Premier League season. Mattythewhite (talk) 23:28, 11 May 2016 (UTC)

External links modified
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External links modified (January 2018)
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 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20120331154052/http://www.liverpool.tv/news/latest-news/shelvey-hopes-to-copy-pal-jack to http://www.liverpool.tv/news/latest-news/shelvey-hopes-to-copy-pal-jack
 * Corrected formatting/usage for http://www.blackpoolfc.co.uk/page/NewsDetail/0,,10432~2533307,00.html
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