Talk:Jordan Pefok

Jordan Pefok
In the US, Siebatcheu is increasingly known as "Jordan Pefok" rather than Siebatcheu so we should probably redirect that to this page. RatedPending (talk) 01:25, 6 September 2021 (UTC)
 * As always, we need sources demonstrating this. An article on his club's website from just a few days ago still uses "Siebatcheu": https://www.bscyb.ch/news?nID=12664 If it were the player's preference for Pefok to be used I'm sure he would have had a word with his club and this preference would be reflected in the club's publications. Robby.is.on (talk) 08:19, 6 September 2021 (UTC)

Here is the link from US Soccer. The page calls him Pefok, but the link ironically still uses Siebatcheu. https://www.ussoccer.com/players/s/jordan-siebatcheu

His twitter handle is currently "Call me PEFOK" and Pefok is on the back of his club and national team shirts, so I would say that's a pretty clear preference https://twitter.com/Theosonsmith

Requested move 14 September 2021

 * The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion. 

The result of the move request was: Moved. (non-admin closure) Natg 19 (talk) 00:48, 25 September 2021 (UTC)

Jordan Siebatcheu → Jordan Pefok – Seems the player is using his maternal surname, and going by Jordan Pefok. This should probably be changed as per WP:NAMECHANGES and WP:USEENGLISH since most new references in English use his new name (Swiss references still use Siebatcheu). Some pages that use Pefok: US Soccer, FBREF, SBI Soccer, The Athletic. He also wear Pefok on his shirt, as seen in this article: here. Finally, his Twitter handle says "Call me PEFOK" here. Ortizesp (talk) 18:47, 14 September 2021 (UTC)


 * Support: The official twitter account of the US national soccer team stated "Jordan asked us to begin using Pefok so we obliged." (https://twitter.com/USMNT/status/1437843047212109834) as well as a reporter stating "Again, he legit asked us as broadcasters to refer to him as Pefok. FYI." (https://twitter.com/jennyachiu/status/1437849344783392778). The USMNT use Pefok on all of their press releases. The name of his Twitter account is "Call me PEFOK" (https://twitter.com/theosonsmith). With these as my references, I fully support this move. Nobreadsticks (talk) 04:25, 15 September 2021 (UTC)
 * Support:dashiellx (talk) 15:25, 15 September 2021 (UTC)
 * Support: When you watch a player and there’s Pefok on his jersey and the commentator says Pefok, it’s reasonable to expect to find him listed under that name. Jim (talk) 16:53, 15 September 2021 (UTC)
 * Support: At first, I didn't support this. But it is now clear that his functional name, and the one he prefers, is "Pefok". Anwegmann (talk) 21:32, 15 September 2021 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in WikiProject Football's list of association football-related page moves. GiantSnowman 18:11, 16 September 2021 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
 * Support per nom. GiantSnowman 18:13, 16 September 2021 (UTC)
 * Support – per nom, per given refs, per the player, per everything, support. Keskkonnakaitse (talk) 15:58, 21 September 2021 (UTC)

Sources for fullname
Hi and. To avoid further further reverts and an edit war, let's discuss here. I would assume both the CONCACAF and the SFL info are based on official documents? I would assume the SFL data is from when the player joined Young Boys, i.e. 2020, whereas the CONCACAF document is from May 2021. Perhaps the player had his name officially changed in-between? Kind regards, Robby.is.on (talk) 10:52, 24 November 2021 (UTC)
 * His full name according to official documents is  (see Swiss league profile, second line). The league gets to see the passport or another official document of all players in order to grant eligibility to play. Some full names of players are rather unknown, e.g. Mvula Jordan Lotomba or Fodé Yannick Toure.
 * A roster can often quickly compiled and thus may contain errors. This has recently been the case for the Swiss national team, where Renato Steffen was called Stefan Steffen. I'd assume that on the US roster Pefok was added to the name to make it clear that it's the guy with that name on the jersey. ;-) The UEFA still calls him Siebatcheu (see champions league game yesterday). --Leyo 11:10, 24 November 2021 (UTC)
 * What's to say his name wasn't changed since he joined Young Boys in September 2020, and his SFL profile was not updated? He's also a citizen of the United States and France, depending on the country of the documents used there could be different names written. Regarding your comment that "league gets to see the passport", unless you looked at the passport this seems to be speculation of how the SFL operates, the Norwegian federation does the same thing though I have still seen a few profiles missing part of a player's name. The UEFA website is not relevant in this case, they only list the common name of the player submitted by the club. U.S. Soccer submitted the roster to CONCACAF with Pefok included in the name, given he is representing the United States this seems the most appropriate to follow. S.A. Julio (talk) 17:15, 24 November 2021 (UTC)
 * SFL profiles are constantly updated when it comes to the number of games and goals or club changes. There is usually no need to changes names. In the case of Eray Cümart (now Eray Cömert), however, the name in his profile was quickly changed.
 * Please note that in the US roster, his first name is given as, i.e. they left out the hyphen. It's thus unclear how accurately the list was compiled. If you would like to, I could e-mail the SFL and/or the club to ask when they have last seen his passport or so. --Leyo 23:01, 24 November 2021 (UTC)

Changing Full Name
Given the page move due to renaming last year (which I would have supported), I'm going to alter the man's full name to what I believe is correct, which is that his second surname is Pefok. This would be consistent with Spanish naming customs, though he's not Spanish of course (French and Cameroonian parents, with his mom also giving him US citizenship), but at least the structure is something common and understood. See FBRef, the leading reference-data site for global football. Or SoccerWiki, which likewise has it as "Siebatcheu Pefok". Any objections, let's discuss here rather than immediately reverting. Thanks! Denzera (talk) 14:48, 6 July 2022 (UTC)
 * FBRef, the leading reference-data site for global football Is it? According to whom? Soccerwiki does not seem particularly reliable. I had not heard of that website until just now.
 * The fact that he will be wearing "Siebatcheu" for Union Berlin would suggest that, while he would prefer "Pefok", it is not his official and legal name. Robby.is.on (talk) 15:16, 6 July 2022 (UTC)
 * Sports-reference, the parent site, has been around for 25 years and leads most google searches for " statistics" and similar terms - in just about any professional or college sport. They provide data to a lot of other sports sites, and aggregate best-in-class data sources.  While TransferMarkt might have more traffic and a bigger team behind it, their crowd-sourced model means they are slower to respond to new facts.  If FBRef has it, that means StatsBomb and other wholesale data providers have it.  And if you don't care for SoccerWiki (which is fair), perhaps you'd care for NatStat, another major wholesale data provider, which also has it as "Siebatcheu Pefok". Denzera (talk) 15:52, 6 July 2022 (UTC)
 * It's an argument, but not a decisive one. We don't know what's on his birth certificate (though perhaps we should ask).  He might well be keeping Siebatcheu with his club for continuity / fandom's sake, but that doesn't mean his mother's name isn't part of his legal name. Denzera (talk) 15:52, 6 July 2022 (UTC)
 * The official website of the Swiss Football League of which the persons in charge got the see his official documents is more credible when it comes to full player names. --Leyo 19:31, 6 July 2022 (UTC)
 * As far as I know, the name on the back of your jersey does not have to be the legal surname. Unless that is something specific to German football? Either way, I am watching the Union Berlin match right now in the first round of the DFB-Pokal and he has Jordan on the back of his jersey. Rupert1904 (talk) 18:06, 1 August 2022 (UTC)

On 1 July 2022, B.Z. wrote:
 * Er trug bislang auf seinen Trikots den Namen „Pefok“. Das ist der Vorname seiner Mutter. In Deutschland wird er mit dem Schriftzug Siebatcheu auflaufen müssen. Laut DFB-Statuten darf auf dem Trikot nur der Familienname oder aber ein im Personalausweis eingetragener Künstlername stehen. Das ist beim Stürmer nicht der Fall.
 * DeepL translation: He used to wear the name "Pefok" on his jerseys. That is his mother's first name. In Germany, he will have to wear the name Siebatcheu. According to the DFB statutes, only the surname or a stage name registered on the identity card may appear on the jersey. This is not the case with the striker.

Now, we know that he has a part of his first name on his jersey. But on the same time, we have another confirmation that Pefok is not part of his official name. --Leyo 09:59, 8 August 2022 (UTC)
 * Thanks The B.Z. article confirms what I suspected above. Robby.is.on (talk) 11:12, 8 August 2022 (UTC)
 * Pefok is not even mentioned anywhere in the player profiles on the websites of his current club and the UEFA. --Leyo 09:46, 24 February 2023 (UTC)