Talk:José María Morelos

Date of Birth
Is it September 1st or 30th? It was changed back in November with no comment.{Symmetric (talk) 19:42, 9 April 2011 (UTC)}

Challenging information
I would like a considerably better source for José María Morelos y Pavóns african ancestry, the current article has a peculiar, badly written article form an afro-american website as the only source. Since José María Morelos is definitely not generally thought about as an afro-mexican in Mexico I think it is a controversial and extraordinary claim that requires extraordinarily good sources. please provide better sources soon or changes will have to be made to the current state of the article.·Maunus· · ƛ · 14:00, 29 December 2007 (UTC)

This is an old comment but indeed, there is no final say that he was either "Mulato" or "Zambo" or what ever other weird casta name he might be called, each author and source would say a different thing on the matter, other authors/sources say he was just Mestizo. The only real concrete evidence we have is that he was classified as an "español" at the time of his birth, but the article does not take into account that being an "español" then was also a status symbol that people could afford and also for people that identified with the empire, meaning also a nationality. In short, yes, Morelos isn't thought of as being "black" in Mexico, but as simply another Mestizo. The article claiming that he was of "dark complexion" makes it sound like only people of African descent can be of a dark complexion when Indigenous and Mestizos can also have dark skin. --FerHnz (talk) 10:36, 30 May 2016 (UTC)


 * User:FerHnz, I have reverted your unilateral removal of the sourced claim that he was of African descent. On Wikipedia, NEVER do this- it is in direct violation of our policy (see Content removal). We seek to create neutral articles using the most reliable sources. You responded to a very old complaint that justifiably had qualms with the source being used then. (Permalink to the article during that time). The source used now is from a Mexican government website that created biographies on historic figures. You are right in saying that we can not label him as a Zambo or Mulatto as some authors do as that would not be neutral and gets into original research territory (the 2007 Wiki article called him a Zambo). What we can do is inform the reader that he was of indigenous, African and Spanish descent without labeling him using any Casta or modern term. Xochiztli (talk) 21:21, 4 June 2016 (UTC)

Any claim of Morelos being anything other than an español is in fact original research based on the fact that he is dark skinned on his portraits, as if only African descended people are dark. All biographies of Morelos differ as to what his ethnic background was, creating confronting views/sources. The so called "most reliable source" doesn't even exist anymore but is being linked via an archival site. I think that if there such confronting views on his background than it's best to not confirm whether he was this or that. Furthermore, I didn't violate anything, I posted sources as well, that are not any less reliable and aren't at least death sites. --FerHnz (talk) 00:18, 5 June 2016 (UTC)

FerHnz Agreed. Morelos was a Spaniard. There is an ideological need in the Mexican ultra-nationalist far-left for Morelos to be indigenous or black. He wasn't. Period. Huasteca (talk) 17:52, 30 March 2021 (UTC)

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