Talk:José Martí

Children
Hello, I'm trying to find more info about José Martí's family. I know he had siblings, but did he have children? - --Rev. Austin 03:32, 15 February 2006 (UTC)


 * Yes, he had children. I think the actor Cesar Romero was related. -- Beardo 22:59, 23 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Jose Martí was his Romero's godfather. He (Romero) always claimed Marti was his grandfather but his legal parents were Carmen and Manuel Mantilla. Marti boarded with Romero's parents..--Tales of the Gold Monkey 06:01, 24 November 2006 (UTC)


 * Here http://www.latinamericanstudies.org/marti-1.htm regards Maria as his daughter.


 * Her two grand-daughters came to Cuba for a visit and were treated like descendants of Marti. (Though who were they - http://www.cubanow.net/global/loader.php?secc=5&cont=stories/num11/01.htm says daughters of Cesar Romero, but our article has him as a confirmed bachelor. -- Beardo 03:14, 13 December 2006 (UTC)

I have always heard that Cesar Romero (who does sort of resemble him) was a descendent. As many things like this, it is hard to confirm. 75.48.21.125 (talk) 05:01, 20 February 2011 (UTC)

Birthplace
Jose Marti actually was born in Havana, in Calle Paula there is a museum at the house where he was born and is marked even the room where it happened.

198.20.41.219 19:35, 5 June 2007 (UTC) cubano

That's true. He's born in Havanna! Please change that!

(141.76.176.45 15:41, 7 June 2007 (UTC))


 * Now changed. Thanks. Unnoticed vandalism. -- Beardo 05:05, 11 June 2007 (UTC)

Death of Jose Marti
There is some additional evidence that Marti and Maceo argued vigorously; this is based on first hand testimony of General Loynaz del Castillo. General del Castillo was very long lived and talked a lot. Some of this is mentioned in:

de Justiz y del Valle, Tomas 1953. Mayo 19 de 1895 Academia de la Historia de Cuba. Imprenta Sigle XX Havana.

I have more but you will need to wait for my book, Xe xe El Jigue 1-2-07 —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 208.65.188.149 (talk) 22:32, 2 January 2007 (UTC).

The intro to the article says Martí was murdered ("his murder was used as a cry for Cuban independence from Spain") but section 1.7 says (rather vaguely) that he died in battle. Given the psychological importance of Martí's death in his day and his historical importance, the details of his death should be given accurately.

DWorley (talk) 15:12, 27 September 2010 (UTC)

Hi guys, newbie here. The paragraph on the death of Jose Marti is confusing (to me, at least). Having read it three times, I still don't understand how Marti was killed or what the "Young man, charge" comment had to do with his death, or even who killed Marti or how. It's as if the paragraph was written by someone who doesn't speak English. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.7.58.204 (talk) 11:57, 25 July 2016 (UTC)

Proposed merger
For the purposes of centralized discussion, please post your comments here. John Carter 19:49, 15 May 2007 (UTC)

Internacional Meeting I have been reliably told of a meeting of International Republicans that took place in North America 1880-1890s between Jose Marti, Irish Republicans and others. Does anyone have information (outside of the 'Conferencias Internacionales Americanas') ?

For information on the IRB:- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irish_Republican_Brotherhood

why is this protected? and just where was he born?
first of all, why is the article protected? and just where was he born, the article says mexico with no city mentioned, and the sidebar says havana, Cuba   -- —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.4.208.105 (talk • contribs)  on 22:24, 10 June 2007


 * Protected because of frequent vandalism by anon ips. It is comon that vandalism reduces when an article is semi-protected.


 * The place of birth was wrong because a piece of vandalism had not been noticed. Thanks for the alert. -- Beardo 05:36, 11 June 2007 (UTC)

Merge
This page has been merged:


 * 1) A prudent amount of time was given for this discussion
 * 2) More importantly, we will honor Martí by working together for improving this article's quality for the Editorial 1.0

John Manuel -21:44, 6 July 2007 (UTC)


 * So true,
 * took awhile to respond sorry about that 2600:1011:B32F:CC7:0:1C:B4BE:A501 (talk) 15:57, 24 August 2023 (UTC)

Untranslated Martί quotes
Would someone mind translating the four Martí quotes that are cited in the "as a translator" section? Many English-language readers of this article aren't proficient in Spanish.--Pinko1977 20:41, 4 August 2007 (UTC)


 * Another request for the above; please. 75.6.238.141 (talk) 09:08, 2 July 2008 (UTC)

Plan
Delara, Valerie, and the mysterious Bas87 have the following plan to improve the Jose Marti article:

1) First of all, find our lost member, Bas87, so that we can feel complete.✅


 * Hehe. --jbmurray (talk • contribs) 07:30, 30 September 2008 (UTC)

2) Library session in which we will find books and articles on Marti, as well as any material we can find written by Marti (Nuestra America...)✅{

3) We will improve the section on his life, make it more clear and more succinct, change the section headings which divide up his life in the article.✅

4) Add sections outlining Marti's contributions to his many fields and how he changed/inspired these areas. Also discuss the main themes in each of his fields of contribution.

5) Add a WORKS section with a basic description of each of his works.

6) Create a killer bibliography, cite everything possible, lots of hard evidence.

7) Spanish parts of the article are untranslated...since this is an English article we will remove them and if we choose to quote him, we will do so in English.

8) Legacy section is cool...but a bit choppy; we will modify it and make it flow.

9) Before doing numbers 3-8, we will look at featured articles/good articles and use these as guidelines.

10) Divide or coordinate the writing of the article...first we need to see who wants to write what. Write our own article sections FIRST without using the wiki article to distract/lead us.  Compare our article with the wiki article and choose the strongest.

No problem. Valerieraynard (talk) 23:03, 18 September 2008 (UTC)

Also...no mention of Nuestra America. Which is probably his most important work. Valerieraynard (talk) 20:33, 24 September 2008 (UTC)

I'm going to focus on the "contributions" area. Jose Marti as the "universal Man": a historian, sociologist, political scientist, economist, writer, philosopher, rebel, anthropologist. Jose Marti's view on the United States. Jose Marti's vision for Latin American. Jose Marti's revolutionary plan and contribution to the social revolution in cuba. Jose Marti's diplomacy in America and Latin America. His 74 volumes of works. Valerieraynard (talk) 19:56, 20 October 2008 (UTC)


 * Looks like a good plan. You can of course add to it over time.  And cross things off when you've done them, including adding a big green checkmark ✅ ✅.  --jbmurray (talk • contribs) 18:16, 26 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Added persondata, which is for indexing. It isn't seen by the reader of the article.Fconaway (talk) 07:17, 11 October 2008 (UTC)

a few more?

 * This is a great idea for a worthwhile class project. If I taught older students, I'd do this as well.


 * Marti was (and still is, by those who know his story) very celebrated in Ybor City. Just in case somebody has the time and desire to follow up on it, here are a few sources documenting the Marti/Ybor connection:


 * Cigar City Magazine
 * Politics in Ybor City
 * Lastra, Frank (2006). Ybor City: The Making of a Landmark Town. University of Tampa Press. ISBN 159732003X.
 * Westfall, Loy G. (2000). Tampa Bay: Cradle of Cuban Liberty. Key West Cigar City USA. ISBN 966894820.

Zeng8r (talk) 00:15, 3 November 2008 (UTC)

progress?
Guys, it seems that the only edits made by the WP:NRG group to his article are these five contributions almost three weeks ago.

This article still needs plenty of work. We need to see some progress! --jbmurray (talk • contribs) 10:02, 17 October 2008 (UTC)

Progress.
I have written out all of what I will add to the article on 1) marti's contribution to Cuban independence and 2)Marti's role as a journalist and diplomat. These will be up on wikipedia (only got 1st half of 1) today) in the next couple of days with referencing and everything. Finally in motion. Valerieraynard (talk) 03:07, 27 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Yay! It's marvellous to see some progress!  Keep at it!  --jbmurray (talk • contribs) 05:16, 27 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Yes. It's good to see progress. Some essential events have been deleted, and now must be restored with appropriate citations.  Out of fairness to earlier editors, let's look for the references before making hasty deletions.Fconaway (talk) 01:57, 2 November 2008 (UTC)
 * This is indeed a good point. To take the most recent example, this edit removed a claim about Martí's view of slavery.  It's true that that claim was unsourced, but the topic is certainly important, and the information needs to be found.  Likewise, the material deleted here, about Martí's final trip back to Cuba, is also important.  We need sourced versions of this information, yes.  But we do need the information, or something similar.  --jbmurray (talk • contribs) 02:57, 2 November 2008 (UTC)

out-of-date sources?
It's marvellous to see progress on this article. However, as I've noted repeatedly in my comments on the bibliography, above, I do worry that too many of the sources used are forty or even fifty years old. Are these really the best sources we can find on this important figure of Latin American literature? I don't think so. --jbmurray (talk • contribs) 04:53, 31 October 2008 (UTC)

I mean, just to take one example at random... What about this book:
 * The Cuban Republic and José Martí : reception and use of a national symbol / edited by Mauricio A. Font and Alfonso W. Quiroz. Lanham, MD: Lexington Books, 2006.

It's only two years old. It's in Koerner library at F1783.M38 C88 2006. Why did you decide not to include it on your bibliography? --jbmurray (talk • contribs) 05:03, 31 October 2008 (UTC)

question about source
About the various references to pages 15 and 16 of José Martí: vida y obra: are these in fact references to something written by Martí himself, or to the prologue, which I gather is written by Carmen Alborch Bataller? If so, we need to be citing Alborch Bataller, and have details about this prologue in the References. --jbmurray (talk • contribs) 05:19, 31 October 2008 (UTC)


 * Thank you :) yes it's the one by Alborch Bataller. So Do I just put her name as the author?--Dtiv (talk) 23:03, 2 November 2008 (UTC)


 * Well, in the references, instead of:
 * Martí, José (1995), José Martí: obra y vida, Madrid: Ministerio de Cultura, Ediciones Siruela, ISBN 978-8478443000.
 * You want something like:
 * Alborch Bataller, Carmen (1995), "Prólogo [Or whatever the actual title is], José Martí: obra y vida, Madrid: Ministerio de Cultura, Ediciones Siruela, pp. [whatever the pages are], ISBN 978-8478443000.
 * And yes, we will then indicate that these citations are by her, rather than by Martí.
 * The general principle is that citations should be accurate, indicating who wrote what, when, and where. --jbmurray (talk • contribs) 23:33, 2 November 2008 (UTC)

Meanwhile, exactly the same issues arise with this new Garganigo source. --jbmurray (talk • contribs) 12:08, 3 November 2008 (UTC)

Submitting the article
I've done what was on my list. Submitting the article, for whoever is at it the latest, is easy to do if you look it up. Good luck and if you need help on anything, let me know. I've also been doing all kinds of grammar (haha) and format and spelling checks on the whole article. Valerieraynard (talk) 05:12, 11 November 2008 (UTC)

Unused references
Guys, I note that a bunch of unused references (i.e. references that are not actually cited) have made their way back into the article. I'm trying to prune them out again. Please: either use them; or you'll lose them. Better to use them, of course! --jbmurray (talk • contribs) 09:58, 11 November 2008 (UTC)
 * OK, I think I've now got rid of the last one. --jbmurray (talk • contribs) 00:06, 12 November 2008 (UTC)

Why can't you put reference you've used, just not cited, in the reference section? Valerieraynard (talk) 01:34, 13 November 2008 (UTC)

To do
Guys, this article has come on in leaps and bounds, but as I'm sure you're aware, there is plenty still to do. Let me refer you back first to your plan:

3) We will improve the section on his life, make it more clear and more succinct, change the section headings which divide up his life in the article.
 * The biography that you have is much improved, though there are still two entirely empty sections; these need to be completed as soon as possible. Also what you do have still somewhat rough around the edges, and could do with further revision and copy-editing.

4) Add sections outlining Marti's contributions to his many fields and how he changed/inspired these areas. Also discuss the main themes in each of his fields of contribution.
 * This is also much improved, and further developed. You might think, however, if you should perhaps reorganize this second part of the article better.

5) Add a WORKS section with a basic description of each of his works.
 * Not done.

6) Create a killer bibliography, cite everything possible, lots of hard evidence.
 * The bibliography is much improved, but could be better. See above for problems with some of your sources, as well as for a note of how many are still unused.  Also see the article itself for many notes about accuracy of details.  All clean-up tags should be dealt with ASAP.

7) Spanish parts of the article are untranslated...since this is an English article we will remove them and if we choose to quote him, we will do so in English.
 * The few times in which Martí is (apparently) directly quoted, it's in translation from the Obras completas. It would be better to use published translations where possible.  It would also, incidentally, be marginally better to use English-language sources (up-to-date ones, of course!) where you can.

8) Legacy section is cool...but a bit choppy; we will modify it and make it flow.
 * There's now no longer a legacy section; but Martí surely needs one!

9) Before doing numbers 3-8, we will look at featured articles/good articles and use these as guidelines.
 * Perhaps this is a good moment to go back and look at other examples.

So you've come a long way; but there's still a fair amount to be done. This is now rather urgent, as at any moment someone may come and review this article for GA review. Unless they are fixed, it's quite likely that they may outright fail the article. This is far from the end of the world, but it'd be better if it didn't happen. Good luck! --jbmurray (talk • contribs) 00:13, 12 November 2008 (UTC)

Get on it
Hey group members. I know you're all overwhelmed with school, But I'm going to complete the missing part about his time back in cuba and before that. Sebastian PLEASE do the part about Works' of marti with a little bit about few of his works. GET ON IT! Valerie please do a small section about legacy. Come on guys just a little bit more and the article might end up as a good article. Good luck and c U tomorrow. --Dtiv (talk) 20:01, 13 November 2008 (UTC)

Legacy
Hello teacher. I'm going to do legacy part if no one else is going to do it. I'm waiting for a book from the Okanagan library, hopefully it will get to me by tomorrow, and hopefully it's not going to be too late.Meanwhile, mis queridos companeros, if you can and have resources please start doing the Lagacy part. We can already see it in his contribution to Cuban independance and modernismo... but we have to put it together and cite it. so let's do it. Animo!--Dtiv (talk) 23:45, 13 November 2008 (UTC)

I'll do legacy
Delara I will take care of legacy: I'll have it done by tonight or tomorrow night for sure and I have good books for it and you have done it all. YOU don't worry about it it's better if you just do the modernismo one (if you aren't done) or just finish up his life. I won't be in class tomorrow because i have the INternational Business Conference for my Economics Major but please if you get a hold of Sebastian, you know what to do. I will do legacy. Valerieraynard (talk) 01:29, 14 November 2008 (UTC)

Rechecking Sources And Adding Content
I recently was going over some of these sources and Abel's citation of Jose Marti wanting a Democratic Republic is not true(As in Abel never writes this on the suppose page citation given). Marti mentions a Republic and was an advocate of democracy that shared deep characteristics for a free-open society (almost very libertarian principled (see Libertarian Principles)) I'm not a huge Wiki user nor do I know how to really write wiki articles. But I'm just stating this as I'm currently writing on Marti and have come to these conclusions from reading a lot of his works recently. And there is many sources to back this up. Marti believed freedoms were indispensable for the advancement of society and governments should be created under the conditions for a particular people.Also, Marti was a huge fan of Grover Cleveland as cited from his writings on Cleveland's Presidential Victory were he said it was "a moral rebirth for society", and George Washington on his works on the Founders. Please see Ripoll's book for further citations unfound on this Article that should be added.

Verb0s (talk) 01:35, 28 January 2010 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 128.54.173.221 (talk)

bottom scrollbar
There's something going on on this page that makes the browser use a bottom scroll bar. You can scroll over to the right away from the text. I'm not sure why. 211.228.53.158 (talk) 10:55, 11 May 2010 (UTC)

marti bust on pico turquino
need to include this information:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pico_Turquino — Preceding unsigned comment added by 173.173.79.132 (talk) 02:43, 26 May 2013 (UTC)

Anti-American propaganda
Believe me, I'm no fan of the Spanish-American War. I believe it was a disaster for all concerned. But the abject slander in this article is utterly ridiculous.

''At this point, Martí became increasingly alarmed about the United States' intentions for Cuba. The United States desperately needed new markets for its industrial products because of the economic crisis it was experiencing,''

The notion that tiny Cuba was to provide any significant share as a market is too laughable to discuss. And it is not as if there was no trade with Cuba before the war.

In an Interamerican Congress summoned in Washington in October 1889 to discuss U.S. position on Cuba, purchase, annexation, and seizure were discussed.[42]

Not by the government.

''Martí was strongly opposed to this expansionism, reiterating his constant position: full independence for Cuba and nothing else. The interests of Cuba's future lay with its sister nations in Latin America, and were opposite to those of the United States.[43]''

LOL. Then why did his platform explicitly demand friendly relations with the U.S.? Why did he accept the Cuban resistance headquartering itself in New York City instead of a Latin American country?

''Through this medium he argued against the exploitative colonialism of Spain in Cuba, criticized the Home Rule (Autonomista) Party for having aims that fell considerably short of full independence, and warned against U.S. annexationism which he felt could only be prevented by Cuba's successful independence.[48]

Really? How does that logic work? If Cuba was independent, it would be completely defenseless against the U.S., whereas if it was autonomous it would be under the protecting power of Spain. Just compare the exertions the U.S. had to through in the Spanish-American war to the laughably easy occupations of Hispaniola and Nicaragua.

Martí demonstrated an anti-American attitude from an early age,

There isn't a shred of evidence for this.

Martí's distrust of North American politics had developed during the 1880s, due to the intervention threats that loomed on Mexico and Guatemala,

What on earth is this talking about?

Although Marti admired the United States and its society, he thought that America's "dealings with 'Nuestra America' left a great deal to be desired".[59] Also he was preoccupied that the United States was becoming "increasingly intent upon extending its dominion over Latin America".[59]

A classic propaganda technique. Leave it vague whether the quote comes from Marti or the author.

Marti alerted and informed Latin Americans that the United States was "totally ignorant of the culture and history of her southern neighbours, and this, combined with the ever increasing phenomenon regarded euphemistically as 'pioneer spirit', augured badly for future relations between the Americas".[59]

How could the "pioneer spirit" be an increasing phenomenon when a) it began over 100 years ago and b) the frontier was closed in 1890.

''By the end of 1889, Marti had changed his "sympathetic attitude" towards the United States. This was due to the U.S. wanting to expand their territories into Latin America.''

Needless to say, no evidence of this intent as of 1889 is provided.

''By this time, Marti was getting ready to prepare a campaign that would liberate Cuba. However, this campaign was in danger as talks "re-surfaced in the United States as to whether that country should purchase Cuba from the Spanish government in order to turn the Island into an American protectorate".[60]''

Dishonestly implying that the government was conducting these talks.

Marti argued that "any attempt to sell his patria as if it were some negotiable merchandise, and of course, without taking into account the wishes of people, was completely unacceptable – particularly when the prospective purchaser was the United States".[60]

Surely an actual quote from Marti could be provided if this was true.

Once it was apparent that the United States were actually going to purchase Cuba and intended to Americanize it, Marti "spoke out loudly and bravely against such action, stating the opinion of many Cubans on the United States of America.[60]

More lies. There was no attempt to purchase Cuba until 1896 after Marti's death.

Marti became distressed as he knew that in order for him to gain independence for Cuba not only did he have to defeat the Spanish, but also had to keep the Americans out.[61]

If Marti really believed this he must have informed his colleagues who later welcomed American intervention. Did they disobey his wishes, or is this another convenient lie?

CJK (talk) 20:26, 15 November 2014 (UTC)

Hagiography
This isn't really a very good biography. Some of the weasle-like half-truths noted by some critics remain in the article. More serious is the still, lack of many contemporary sources and the hagiographical tone of the whole. This is a man who never made a mistake or put a foot wrong? I doubt it very much. As well, many socialists of the nineteenth century were either anti-clerical (they associated christianity with superstition and mental oppression) or they were outright atheists. Where on the spectrum does Marti fall? Or is he an early Christian socialist? Some discussion of this is surely merited as is more detailed discussion and critique of his ideas. Much of this is vague, some of it is just silly, and some of it, frankly, is unbelieveable, as for example, Marti's supposed anti-Americanism, a posture that didn't even really become possible until at least the early to mid-twentieth century.

I just checked the section on Mari and the US and found that there really is only one source (Kirk, 1977 – a 15PP article written nearly 40 years ago. Essentially then, that section is simply a summary of one article. That doesn't really meet Wikipedia standards. More sources, and more diversity of views is needed. Theonemacduff (talk) 03:57, 13 January 2015 (UTC)

External links modified
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External link error
so, one of the external links (José Martí (.org)) seems to lead to a site that has nothing to do with marti (or this marti). Just want to verify this before I delete it.

Bensjones (talk) 21:46, 14 November 2018 (UTC)

Biografia de joaneliz aimar pimentel lopez
HELLO AQUI NO AHI NAH CHECKKK 152.166.155.62 (talk) 00:36, 18 June 2022 (UTC)