Talk:Jose Calugas

Foreign Born
Jose Calugas is listed as a foreign born Medal of Honor recepient, however, I am not sure that this is the case. At the time of his birth the Philippines was a US Territory.--RightCowLeftCoast (talk) 02:56, 22 May 2009 (UTC)


 * "Foreign born" recipient is usually meant as someone who was born outside of the United States. The Philippines was still regarded as a foreign country despite it being a territory of the US during his birth. Calugas was considered a US National but not a Citizen. Ðysepsion † Speak your mind 05:00, 22 May 2009 (UTC)

Pre-GA review
There are large sections of this article that are uncited, which would automatically fail this nomination, I don't want to do that, so I'll wait until the citations are added before reviewing the article. Skinny87 (talk) 20:50, 18 December 2009 (UTC)

Which Marshall?
Hate to bring this up, but might have found an error. The article states, with two reliable source references, that the MoH was presented by GEN George C. Marshall. That being said, there is material posted by a California based non-profit that states that the medal was presented by MG Richard Marshall. Does the weight of the two reliable sources trump the one possible reliable source, or should the contested material be removed all together, or should both be mentioned? --RightCowLeftCoast (talk) 23:24, 24 February 2012 (UTC)
 * I don't know which is right to be honest. It might take a little research to figure that one out. I have to be honest I'm not really doing much editing these days so I may not get to this any time soon. --Kumioko (talk) 00:12, 25 February 2012 (UTC)
 * One is through a source with a COI, even if it is published via a CA based non-prof, that is his Son SFC Calugas Jr.; but matches photo records; and we use the source to verify other content in the article. The other source is a reliable sourced news organization, a Seattle based newspaper. Weight says the news organization is more likely to carry more weight, as is the published book which is used to support George C. Marshall as the presenting General Officer. --RightCowLeftCoast (talk) 03:23, 25 February 2012 (UTC)
 * That is if the book and newsorg are correct, and the image and his son are wrong.
 * On a completely separate note, here is him meeting John F. Kennedy.--RightCowLeftCoast (talk) 03:33, 25 February 2012 (UTC)

New Information
I have found some new information from a possible non-RS here; they are photos taken at a museum in Iloilo Museum (Museo Iloilo).
 * image of CPT Calugas meeting POTUS Kennedy in 1963
 * image of CPT Calugas' uniform
 * image of a certificate
 * another image of CPT Calugas' uniform

The reasons why I bring this up as it might help improve the Honors and awards section, but as the images do not appear to come from an RS I will hold off on adding them until the images are seen as being RSs at RSN. --RightCowLeftCoast (talk) 09:37, 14 March 2012 (UTC)

The discussion can be found here. --RightCowLeftCoast (talk) 10:02, 14 March 2012 (UTC)

It appears that the sources here have found to be reliable, and content using these sources will be used accordingly. --RightCowLeftCoast (talk) 21:20, 21 March 2012 (UTC)

An archive of the discussion described at RSN ca be found here. --RightCowLeftCoast (talk) 02:51, 26 March 2012 (UTC)

Let me transcribe something a fellow editor has written on my talk page: "Greetings,

First, I dropped a note on The Citadel External Affairs Office on Facebook (knew that ap was good for something!) about whether they have or ever had a Master of the Sword. No answer yet.

Second, I was intrigued by a couple of things about the uniform associated with Jose Calugas. The awards (ribbons) on the uniform don't match those one the wikipedia page; the uniform shows at least two Good Conduct Medals and the Occupation Medal that we don't show. The name tag is one that we wore with the Army Green uniform and I don't remember them being used with the older uniforms; it was before my time. I was wondering if the museum took some liberties. This is partly based on a walking tour of USS Alabama. It included a pass through "warrant officer country," where a nice Army warrant officer uniform was hanging in a locker. Whatever.

--Gaarmyvet (talk) 00:24, 28 March 2012 (UTC)"

Now to avoid the possibility of other editors believing an off page discussion constitutes a cabal I have suggested we continue the discussion here.

Now the reason for the difference of what is posted in the article page and what we see in the photo is the present awards reflect congressional record as spoken to Representative Bob Filner. The representative has a large Filipino American population in his district and claims to work for World War II Filipino Veterans rights, at one point sponsoring the Filipino Veterans Fairness Act, but never really doing anything to advance it substantially (even while he was the chair of the Veteran Affairs Committee in the House during the 111th Congress.)

The image itself is newer than the congressional record, and is of a uniform that was donated to a museum that receives Philippine Government funding. At RSN the image was deemed to be a reliable source. At this point I believe that some of the differences between the congressional record and what is on the uniform is that the last time the uniform was probably updated by the family was when the Captain retired, this would explain the lack of the Prisoner of War Medal due to it being created in the 80s and Calugas retiring in the 50s.--RightCowLeftCoast (talk) 17:03, 28 March 2012 (UTC)


 * If CPT Jose Calugas was awarded the Army Good Conduct Medal, it would have been for his service as an enlisted man; officers do not qualify for the GCM. Did Calugas finish his career as an officer or as an NCO?  If he finished as an officer, the GCMs should be old.  (I'm not clear as to whether Philippine Scouts qualified for the GCM.)  If he finished his service as an NCO the GCMs could be new; the apartments in Seattle were named after Sergeant Calugas.  Because he retired as an NCO?  Because the service for which he was being honored was that in the Philippines?  I don't know and the article about Seattle doesn't go into detail.  The Army of Occupation Medal is another challenge; except for occupied Berlin, it was not awarded after the 1950s.


 * However back to the "original question." I don't think the medal in question was awarded by the United States.  All US medals that I have seen hang from a ring attached to a tapering ribbon.  I poked around at List of military decorations and some of the "national pages" for our allies in WW II and the structure of the medal resembles those of the British Empire/Commonwealth, but it may apply to others as well.


 * I hope I haven't muddled rather than clarified.


 * I'll continue the quest about Master of the Sword on an appropriate page.


 * --Gaarmyvet (talk) 21:09, 28 March 2012 (UTC)
 * The son of the subject is accessible, we can ask him.
 * From the sources that are listed in the article, and from what I have read, the subject retired as a Captain.
 * As for the Army of Occupation Medal, as is stated in the article, he received a direct commission in the 44th Infantry and served in Okinawa during the American occupation of Japan.--RightCowLeftCoast (talk) 22:10, 28 March 2012 (UTC)
 * Here is a link to the identification assistance request here; there is a presently unidentified medal on the uniform in the images from the museum in Iloilo. --RightCowLeftCoast (talk) 22:28, 28 March 2012 (UTC)
 * I have emailed the son of the subject of the article and received the following response, with redaction of names:
 * Hi Mr. ****
 * Please go to google search and type Jose Calugas, Sr., it will give you a lot of information about my ather. He was a Sgt. with the 88th FA PS during WWII and was commissioned after the war and retained his commission officer, retired as captain after 27 years in the US Army. He retired as a captain in 1957 at Ft. Lewis, Washington and that is the same uniform that he wore at the retirement ceremony at Ft. Leiws. I donated his uniform at the Museo of Iliolo, Philippines, since he was born in Bgy. Tagsing, Leon Iloilo, Philippines.
 * I am also the National president of the Philippine Scouts Heritage Society, preserving the history, heritage, and legacy of the Philippine Scouts. Our website: www.philippine-scouts.org
 * National President
 * This is in response the the following email I sent, with names redacted:
 * SFC *******:
 * I thought you might be interested that there is presently a discussion regarding medals and other awards that your father was the recipient of at the Wikipedia page about him. A link to the current discussion can be found here. If there are improvements to the article, due to COI, please let us know in the article's talk page, and provide us with reliable sources, so they page can be improved.
 * Chula Vista, California
 * Unfortunetly, this still does not answer the question of what the medal below the Army of Occupation medal is. I will continue my research. --RightCowLeftCoast (talk) 01:36, 31 March 2012 (UTC)
 * Decoration is almost certainly the (Philippine) Distinguished Conduct Star, albeit a different design iteration to that currently shown at Medals of the World. His son refers to him being presented this decoration (see here). The ribbon is heavily faded but the key design elements are very similar. The design of the decoration in the photo is clearly based on that of the US Medal of Honor. Given his World War II service, it would only be a US or a Philippine decoration. Cheers, AusTerrapin (talk) 15:08, 4 December 2013 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the information, the question I have is is this a reliable source? It looks that way but it is a second hand account of the event. I will take this to RSN, if they are satisfied, then lets add it.--RightCowLeftCoast (talk) 18:42, 4 December 2013 (UTC)
 * Decoration is almost certainly the (Philippine) Distinguished Conduct Star, albeit a different design iteration to that currently shown at Medals of the World. His son refers to him being presented this decoration (see here). The ribbon is heavily faded but the key design elements are very similar. The design of the decoration in the photo is clearly based on that of the US Medal of Honor. Given his World War II service, it would only be a US or a Philippine decoration. Cheers, AusTerrapin (talk) 15:08, 4 December 2013 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the information, the question I have is is this a reliable source? It looks that way but it is a second hand account of the event. I will take this to RSN, if they are satisfied, then lets add it.--RightCowLeftCoast (talk) 18:42, 4 December 2013 (UTC)

Monument
Appears that in the subjects home town there has been erected a monument to him. That being said, there does not appear to be a reliable source which we can use in the article space for us to add information about the monument.--RightCowLeftCoast (talk) 17:13, 21 March 2016 (UTC)
 * http://www.gracianolopezjaena.org/captain_jose_calugas.html
 * http://takeanothershotatlife.blogspot.com/2014_05_01_archive.html

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