Talk:Joseph Biroli/GA1

GA Review
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Reviewer: Amitchell125 (talk · contribs) 18:54, 4 January 2022 (UTC)

Happy to review the article.

Review

 * Link Burundian; chief (Tribal chief); public relations
 * Done.
 * Add 'also called Joseph Birol'
 * That would almost certainly be a typo, what's the source for this?
 * Apologies, for Birol read 'Biroli'. AM
 * I see, done. -Indy beetle (talk) 01:29, 10 January 2022 (UTC)


 * No commas needed in , Jean-Baptiste Ntidendereza,
 * Done.
 * was sentenced to death – 'he was sentenced to death'
 * Done.
 * Biroli was initially sentenced - 'Biroli was found guilty and initially sentenced'?
 * Done.


 * Link chief (as above); colonial and political sciences (Political science); degree (Academic degree)
 * Done.
 * Joseph Biroli – his name was given in full in the lead, so presumably it needs to be the same here.
 * Done.
 * He then worked for the European Economic Community. Are more details available about his role in the EEC?
 * No, but this seems to be a common thread for early African graduates from Belgian colonies. Thomas Kanza of the Belgian Congo also took a position at the EEC, but sources are illusive as to what he or the other students really did there.
 * Understood. AM


 * Link ideological (Ideology); diplomat; communique (Press release); house arrest; municipal (presumably Municipal council); prime minister
 * Done.
 * I’m unclear how communal elections are different from any other kind, could this be clarified?
 * Communes are administrative units in Burundi; the elections resulted in the selection of their governments. I've wikilinked this to make it clear.
 * Amend In 1960 Biroli's brother to 'In 1960 his brother' to improve the prose
 * Done.
 * No commas needed in , Jean-Baptiste Ntidendereza,
 * Done.
 * Unlink New York City (commonly understood term), and amend to 'New York'
 * Done.
 * events in Ruanda needs to be expanded in order for readers to have some sort of an idea of what they were
 * Revised as "ethnic violence".
 * I would use this resource for information about the Marzorati Group, which Biroli was involved with
 * Wonderful find; added.

An interesting article! More comments to follow. Amitchell125 (talk) 14:22, 8 January 2022 (UTC)


 * Link assassinated; testimony; constitution; Supreme Court (Supreme Court of Burundi); hanged (Hanging)
 * Done. Supreme court was already linked.
 * Ioannis Kageorgis - should be named in the preceding sentence
 * Done.
 * Readers may not be sure what retroactive competence means, perhaps this could be rephrased or explained
 * Basically means the Court had jurisdiction to review events that happened before Burundi's independence. Wikilinked jurisdiction.
 * Consider using this source (p135) on efforts to save Biroli by his old Oxford college
 * Excellent find, now incorporated.
 * Link mwami (which I think should be in italics), and perhaps provide a brief explanation of the term
 * Linked. The article explains it was the title of Burundian kings, so I don't think elaboration on the point is necessary. MOS:FOREIGNITALIC is the relevant guidance here, and I'm kind of mixed on italicizing Mwami since it serves as part of a title in this case and thus almost acts as a proper noun (at least in my mind), and most modern sources on Rwandan and Burundian history do not italicise the term and use it plainly to mean "king of Rwanda" or "king of Burundi", though it is arguable that books on East African history are to English audiences automatically be considered "specialist literature".
 * Understood. AM


 * This source has more details of the events leading up to the executions
 * An interesting source, but I don't think it pertains much to Biroli in particular so I'm not keen to use it.
 * Understood. It might be of use in a related article (I'll find one and add it). AM
 * Done at André Muhirwa :).


 * The source for ref 1 (Huybrechts) is available from the Internet Archive (here). I would list the book in the Works cited section
 * I prefer to use the free link provided directly by the Overseas Academy, since it's an academic organization and the original publisher of that work.
 * Understood. AM


 * The source for refs 5, 9 & 17	(Russell) is available here
 * As the WM Library says to me, "To view this link you need to be an eligible library user. Please login to continue." (I don't have a WM Library account). This isn't really helpful for accessibility.
 * Understood, but as pages 61, 127-128 and 218 (all cited in the article) are not accessible in the Google Books preview—which which makes the current link a bit redundant—I wouldn't include the link as it stands. AM


 * The source for refs 6 &12	(Weinstein) is available at the Internet Archive (here)
 * Linked.


 * Link Ludo De Witte; René Lemarchand
 * Done.
 * More details of Biroli could be obtained from this source
 * I'm frankly not seeing the value; Eggers is basically copying what Lemarchand says in his 1970 book (to the point of, if it were a Wiki article, risking a copyvio).
 * As a dictionary, Eggers can use Lemarchand as a source, so I'm unclear why plagiarism comes up here. Several points that compare Biroli and Rwagasore made by Eggers should appear in the text (cited by any source you wish, but I would use this one):
 * that their mutual dislike was known to the general public;
 * that Biroli was more academic;
 * that Rwagasore appeared to the Europeans "awkward and backward by comparison" with Biroli;
 * that Biroli received more sympathy and support from European officials. Amitchell125 (talk) 09:25, 10 January 2022 (UTC)
 * These are points made by Lemarchand 1970. My edit according to your requests. Biroli's good performance as a student is already mentioned. My opposition to citing Eggers for this info is not necessarily her style, it's that I'd rather use the original (and usually more detailed) source. It's not that I think citing her is a copyvio problem (I've used her work on other articles), I was just commenting that if I was writing a Wikipedia article that used Lemarchand 1970 as my sole source and produced text that looked like some of Eggers' entries, other Wikipedia editors would probably chastise me for too closely paraphrasing. IOW her historical scholarship in the dictionary(s) is not that great; she's classically trained as a linguist and her explanations of Kirundi phrases are much better.
 * Looks sorted, thanks. AM

* I would cite this book by Lemarchand (his book already used in the article, whilst useful, is decades old).
 * I don't really see the value in citing that either. Lemarchand's newer works will sometimes discuss the same things he covered in older works, but since the scope is different his 1970 book remains more detailed on this time period in Burundi, and it's basically the same info but more fully articulated. Despite its age, Eggers seems to have no problem ripping directly from it!
 * Understood. AM


 * This source looks useful as a way of adding more detail to the article
 * Excellent point and done. I had seen this source before but had ignored it for some reason.
 * The Report Of The UN Commission for Ruanda-Urundi on the Assassination of the Prime Minister of Burundi (this document from https://francegenocidetutsi.org/) could be used as well, or perhaps added to a Further reading section
 * It is a fascinating resource, but it's basically a primary document, and amounts to a lot of "he said/she said"
 * Looking again at this one, I agree it's a primary source, and therefore shouldn't be used as a reference, but readers might want to know what it has to say, and the article would be incomplete without it. The report should be placed in a Further reading section (positioned after the Works cited section)' Amitchell125 (talk) 09:03, 10 January 2022 (UTC)
 * Added, but used a UN-link, since that's the original publisher.
 * Looks sorted. AM
 * The suggested texts really are only suggestions, please feel free to pick and choose anything that could be used to add further details. Amitchell125 (talk) 22:24, 8 January 2022 (UTC)

On hold
I'm putting the article on hold for a week until 16 January to allow time for the issues raised to be addressed. Regards, Amitchell125 (talk) 14:41, 8 January 2022 (UTC)
 * I've responded to your comments. -Indy beetle (talk) 09:44, 9 January 2022 (UTC)

Pass
Passing the article now, congratulations and thanks for all your work. Amitchell125 (talk) 07:11, 11 January 2022 (UTC)
 * Thank you for your detailed review. -Indy beetle (talk) 07:15, 11 January 2022 (UTC)