Talk:Joseph Sawyer House

I disagree with the assessment that this house doesn't qualify as being notable enough to have it own Wikipedia page. Not only was the house built almost 200 years ago by for one of the earliest settlers of the Connecticut Western Reserve it was designed by the Architect Jonathan Goldsmith. Goldsmith is considered one of the leading architects of the Western Reserve. His work was important enough that one of his homes the "Robinson House" was saved by the Western Reserve Historical Society and moved to become the center piece of its Hale Farm & Village property. Another of his homes the "Mathews House" was also save to Lake Erie College. Both of these homes are almost identical in design to the Sawyer-Barrow house. Goldsmith was considered such a master architect of the Greek Revival style that when one of his homes was demolished the front door was saved and is now on permanent display at the Cleveland Museum of Art. The home also has significance as the home to many wealthy business people who where part of the move to create large summer estates away from the city of Cleveland. We have years of documentation on this house and would love to be able to share it with other groups interested in architecture such as the WikiProject Architecture Jbarrow51 (talk) 18:12, 17 November 2021 (UTC)

Jonathan Goldsmith
As the notability of the house is being debated, I am discovering (as have other editors before me in the AfD discussion), that Goldsmith himself might be more notable than this particular house, and a more appropriate article might be on him (and this house would be a section on that page).

I have added some additional sources to the Goldsmith section but have only scratched the surface. I'm new here myself and so hoping those with better tools and skills can add to the article. If you do edit the section, please don't just delete everything as being unrelated to the Sawyer House. BBQboffin (talk) 23:18, 28 December 2021 (UTC)

Page Title: Joseph Sawyer House?
I could not find any source calling this the "Sawyer-Barrow House". "Twin Maples" doesn't make as much sense now that the house has been moved from the location. "Sawyer House" is confusing as there many references to a different house by the same name in Mentor that was most recently a tavern and a restaurant and then was demolished. I think "Joseph Sawyer House" (or whatever it's called in the books) is the most appropriate name for the page, but I wanted others' thoughts (especially the page creator) to weigh in on the page renaming (and also because I'm a new editor and haven't done this before and didn't want to muck it up). Per WP:COMMONNAME we want to call things by the names used in the sources, e.g. "Bill Clinton" rather than "William Jefferson Clinton". BBQboffin (talk) 15:29, 29 December 2021 (UTC)

The name Sawyer-Barrow House was arrived at for several reasons. As you mentioned, calling it the Sawyer House doesn't make since because there were several houses owned by different Sawyers in this same area. And in the 2000's when a restaurant opened, for a few years, in the nearby old Danial Sawyer House, that was already famous for being the Headquarters of Wayside Gardens, but instead called itself the "Sawyer House" the name stuck and has been used in many newspaper articles and online post since. As for calling it the Joseph Sawyer House one issue is that Joseph Sawyer who had this house built also had a son named Joseph Sawyer who built a house near by that still exist. Over the years there has been confusion in print material when people misstated facts because they were confusing the two men. As for the publication that first used the name Joseph Sawyer House it was printed in 1980 over 150 years after the house was built and 100 years after it had been called Twin Maples by multiple previous owners and in multiple newspaper articles. It was the Author of that book on Johnathan Goldsmith that stated calling it The Joseph Sawyer House but when you review the source material the author herself used to confirm this house was built by Goldsmith it reads “Joseph Sawyer Cottage corner of Ave. and Kirtland Road, long Almond Sawyer home I think still owned by his son.” It reads more like a casual name rather than some official name. The name Twin Maples was also the name of the estate so even though its history as a Summer Estate used by wealthy Clevelanders is historically important when, in 1961, the house was moved off the estate it would be confusing and incorrect to still call it Twin Maples. The name Sawyer-Barrow house was selected because it was unique and reflects the fact for the last 55+ years it’s been owned by the Barrow family which is the only family to have lived in it at its current location. There has also been a presidence set where other homes built by Goldsmith are named for multiple owners such as the Corning-White House, Kingsbury-Sanford House and the Perry-Paine House. In closing, one of the motivations for creating this Wikipedia page was that after the house was moved and the Greek Revival front was oddly faced towards the woods in the back of the property, giving it more of a 1970’s colonial appearance from the road, its history had been gradually overlooked. So even though this is a newer Wikipedia page the name Sawyer-Barrow House has been in use for several years now on a large bronze plague that shares its history and the same external photo’s that are also on this page. Jbarrow51 (talk) 21:01, 28 February 2022 (UTC)


 * If it was known for 75 years as Twin Maples then that I think would be the best name as we have multiple sources for it under that name. There are no WP:Reliable Sources for anyone calling it the "Sawyer-Barrow" house.  That it has been called that on WP for years is not a valid argument (WP is not a reliable source). When you say "the name Sawyer-Barrow house was selected", who chose the name?  Was it you yourself when you created the page?
 * The existence of "a large bronze plaque" with that name on it may not be relevant, as anyone can make a plaque saying anything. Who made the plaque?  The family or the National Parks Service, or someone else?  BBQboffin (talk) 18:44, 28 May 2022 (UTC)
 * I vote for the name "Joseph Sawyer House" because (a) the following several sources reference this name e.g. Historical and Archaeological Tracts and Local Lore, and (b) the house was built for Joseph Sawyer. Greg Henderson (talk) 22:15, 28 February 2023 (UTC)
 * I've changed my mind about the name. I created the page and had my arguments for the name Sawyer-Barrow House but its confusing to have people use two names. I vote to change the page title to The Joseph Sawyer House but I'm not sure what's the correct way to go about making the change. Jbarrow51 (talk) 14:07, 2 June 2023 (UTC)
 * Not sure either, but I'll give it a shot, per WP:BOLD and Cabal willing I won't be crushed by that 5th pillar. BBQboffin (talk) 00:35, 5 June 2023 (UTC)
 * Thanks! The page looks good. Jbarrow51 (talk) 11:48, 5 June 2023 (UTC)