Talk:Josip Jović

Merger proposal
I disagree, for reason there is article about Jović on Croatian Wikipedia, and specially for reason that other side could find inappropriate that his biography is on Wikipedia page about Plitvice Lakes incident.--Eversman (talk) 00:20, 27 November 2012 (UTC)


 * The existence of the hr: article means very little because this is such an intricate Croatian topic - to English speakers, his sole reason for notability is his participation in the event. I don't see what "other side" could find it inappropriate. The description of the event doesn't pass without his mention, so moving the handful of sentences about him there improves that article and removes a stub here. An analogous case is Emir Šišić who is inextricably linked to another event but otherwise non-notable. --Joy &#91;shallot&#93; (talk) 07:50, 27 November 2012 (UTC)
 * These factoids can be moved: his birth date and the fact of his entry into the police unity in 1990 in the background section; the sentence about burst fire, vest, last moments and burial in the conflict section; the two sentences about post-war honors into a new aftermath section. The other information about Jović is either duplicate or not notable. --Joy &#91;shallot&#93; (talk) 07:58, 27 November 2012 (UTC)


 * Well, no hard feelings Joy but if we look things like that, George Barclay sole reason for notability is his participation in the First Battle of El Alamein, and there are plenty examples like that on English Wikipedia. So why would Jović be any different? Cheers, --Eversman (talk) 19:30, 28 November 2012 (UTC)


 * I don't think that's accurate because that other soldier actually did more than one vaguely notable thing in his career, and someone published his writing later. So while I agree that he's not particularly notable himself, I don't see the equivalency - you can't merge him into a single article. Perhaps a more pertinent example is Suada Dilberović, Olga Sučić (and Nikola Gardović), which could also reasonably be merged into a single article such as Siege of Sarajevo. I'll go tag those, too. --Joy &#91;shallot&#93; (talk) 10:53, 29 November 2012 (UTC)


 * Is there any chance of adding Jović infobox to Plitvice Lakes incident article? Cheers, --Eversman (talk) 00:26, 30 November 2012 (UTC)


 * If there's space, yes, it could be added next to the paragraph with his mention, and the redirect can be made to point right there using an anchor. --Joy &#91;shallot&#93; (talk) 07:50, 30 November 2012 (UTC)


 * OK Joy, if you ask me, I agree with merger. Cheers, --Eversman (talk) 18:21, 30 November 2012 (UTC)

Disagree: For reason he is well notable to have his own article here.--Bbrezic (talk) 12:47, 23 March 2013 (UTC)
 * Can you elaborate, in particular with WP:BIO in mind? --Joy &#91;shallot&#93; (talk) 15:02, 23 March 2013 (UTC)
 * Well Notability (people) basic criteria says that a person is presumed to be notable if he or she has been the subject of multiple published secondary sources which are reliable, intellectually independent of each other, and independent of the subject. I think we can all agree that Josip Jović has been the subject in the multiple published articles in Croatia and abroad through the last 22 years, especially every year on 31 March and 1 April we have more new articles.--Bbrezic (talk) 10:58, 25 March 2013 (UTC)
 * Can you cite such a secondary source? Because the article has none. Even the Ministry of the Interior (primary source) In memoriam has only a single paragraph about him. The man is clearly described as a symbol, not as a person; his biography is a pro forma addition to the story. I know that there are regularly published newspaper articles that mention him, but are they WP:Secondary sources? I doubt it, because he was simply 22 years old when he got killed. Not many other 22 year olds are notable as such, and the encyclopedic thing in this case is the Plitvice Lakes incident, not his biography. --Joy &#91;shallot&#93; (talk) 07:54, 26 March 2013 (UTC)

Oppose on entirely different grounds - the Plitvice Lakes article mentions and IMO gives due weight to Jović already containing everything in this article except personal details, posthumous awards and such. I'm not too familiar with biography-notability-requirements to comment on keeping of this article or otherwise. Re biographies of Jović I suspect there may be few to none of those, but quite a few things are named after him (academy, patrol boats, etc) and there's a monument dedicated to him, so that may warrant some notability - I'm simply not sure there. I wonder if a parallel may be drawn to Stjepan Filipović here?--Tomobe03 (talk) 11:12, 15 September 2013 (UTC)
 * Looking at WP:BIO, he may be notable per Additional cirteria/Any biography item 1 at the very least. Furthermore according to WP:SOLDIER, posthumously awarded rank of major general makes him notable (item 3), possibly also under item 5 of the same policy.--Tomobe03 (talk) 11:18, 15 September 2013 (UTC)

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