Talk:Joy (Fefe Dobson album)

the "in other media" should be updated. for all of fefes pages actually. some of them are missing a few. and some are behind. and also, quoting something about a "vagina_bastard" on twitter really shouldnt be put on her wikipedia page. and lastly those last tour dates are way past. i dont want to edit the page myself, bc someone always undoes everything i do. plus i dont know how to update that "in other media" thing. 76.106.178.182 (talk) 23:01, 6 June 2010 (UTC)


 * Vagina_Bastard is a user on Twitter who frequently talks with FeFe Dobson about things related to Joy. They are a source, and they were mentioned on her Wikipedia page because the information was relevant, and in turn, they were cited.

Release Date
Amazon.com is listed as the reference for the supposed release date of October 5th, but all Amazon has is a date. Where has Fefe Dobson announced that? Where is Amazon getting it's information? How authoritative is Amazon? --24.4.139.32 (talk) 03:09, 24 July 2010 (UTC)

Is Tommy2.net even reliable?
I think the track listing section should be changed to recorded tracks, as the track listing obviously will be changed. And is Tommy2.net even a reliable source? ΣПDiПG–STΛЯT  (Talk)  22:26, 17 September 2010 (UTC)


 * AGREED re Tommy2.net. I didn't edit that into the article. I shall replace it with a better ref Track Listing at Fefe Dobson's OFFICIAL fansite, Bestfan. I doubt that we even know all the recorded track titles, best to stick with an OFFICIAL source (even tho it is outdated) until we get an ACTUAL update.—Iknow23 (talk) 22:40, 17 September 2010 (UTC)

Discussion of recent edit warring, everyone invited to participate here.
Regarding recent edit warring on this album article: To all, please visit WP:CIVIL, "Stated-simply, editors should always treat each other with consideration and respect. In order to keep the focus on improving the encyclopedia and to help maintain a pleasant editing environment, editors should behave politely, calmly and reasonably, even during heated debates." (Civil 1) It is NEVER appropriate to use LMAO to revert another editor's contribution. To do so invites an immediate 'undo' as an unexplained edit and possible reporting of a violation of WP:CIVIL. (Civil 2) The age of an editor is unimportant and should not be disparaged. Constructive editors of any age is what made Wikipedia what it is today. Now on to the issues:
 * 1) BestFan is an OFFICIAL Fansite. Ending-start, it is TRUE that fansites RUN BY FANS are an unreliable source but this does NOT apply to BestFan as many are trying to explain to you. Please visit the sources in the article. Especially visit http://chrissmithmanagement.cmail3.com/T/ViewEmail/y/09010FD9592B1215/E01B62FDBF29E45344D0DD5392A9C75A a source in the 'Release history' table that you restored. If you restore material as you did with 'Added release history back'., you are acknowledging that it is a proper source (in your opinion). The link goes to the "Chris Smith Management Inc Newsletter", hereafter abbrev as "CSMIN" . Note at the bottom of the Fefe Dobson section of the article that they have links to other sites. One of which is http://www.bestfan.com/artist/fefedobson. Do you dispute that Chris Smith Management is her management company? THEY recognize the BestFan page of Fefe Dobson, making it 'official'. Fans cannot post any of the articles on the page like FefeNews, Fefe's Notes, etc. THOSE articles are reliable (at the time they were posted. Life continues and things can and will change, like Release dates, Track listings, etc. Just strive to use the most current material.) However ANY and ALL 'comments' added by fans are not 'official' and cannot be utilized as reliable sources. Now please view the very bottom of the "CSMIN" to see among the links there, one to BestFan. If this is not an 'official' site, why do they link to it?
 * 2) Ending-start, when you restored material as you did with 'Added release history back'., it included a link to BestFan at http://www.bestfan.com/profile.php?ida=4. By so doing you are acknowledging that it is a proper source (in your opinion).
 * 3) Amazon is a reliable source. Many say NO, but again if using as a source for a future event, it STILL REMAINS subject to change, the same as EVEN when Chris Smith Management or Island Records report release dates or track listings for Dobson OR ANY OTHER ARTIST. We will only know with ABSOLUTE CERTAINTY after the event HAS occurred, but we can properly & correctly state using reliable sources, that 'this is what the source says' by the reference link to the material and such language as 'scheduled' or 'expected', etc. Further with Amazon, view the source cited in the 'Release history' section that goes to Amazon itself at http://www.amazon.com/Joy/dp/B004BTHIYM/. Doesn't it seem to be an update to the Amazon info at the link you are insisting on. I'm going to be adding an additional source for the track listing at http://www.bestfan.com/viewblog.php?id=119, which is the most recent version of the Track listing found there. It MATCHES the Amazon link, given above. Seeing that these two match, are you instead trying to argue that the ONE Amazon link you insist on is more reliable (even without a corroborating source)? —Iknow23 (talk) 05:38, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
 * 4) Sunday Love is still a STUDIO ALBUM, released or not. It has its own wiki page so it is Notable. It is somewhat ackward to report that Joy is the third studio album but the second to be released, but it is appropriate to do so for accuracy of the material presented. In the infobox, (and discography page) it is reported correctly as being unreleased, so there doesn't  exist any attempt to say that the album is more than it is. more to come, but not right away. —Iknow23 (talk) 06:25, 20 November 2010 (UTC)

Clarification on why Watch Me Move and I Want You are singles.
All singles are "promotional" for their parent albums. Watch Me Move and I Want You are "promotional singles" only if they failed to appear on the album itself. Then they are "promotional ONLY singles." Watch Me Move never officially impacted mainstream radio, however, it was attached to a magnitude of T.V. commercials and movie trailers, and had it's own music video. FeFe talked about Watch Me Move being her debut single back in 2008, but due to her being independent at the time, it wasn't a mainstream single like Ghost and Stuttering. That however does NOT change the fact that it was a single, had a music video, and appears on Joy. Don't Let it Go to Your Head and This is My Life are still considered singles, and they're off an album that was never released, and TiML never had a video to help promote it. Both songs didn't chart, but they are still singles. Just because the new single "Stuttering" came out, it does not mean that prior singles are no longer a singles.—Blackarachnophobia (talk) 06:20, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
 * AGREED. Any song that has a DIFFERENT release date (meaning available for purchase to the general public) than its parent album has been 'released as a single'. It is usually seen that it will be 'sent' for radio 'impact' or 'going for [radio] adds' as promotion for the single to increase sales. The same applies to music videos. If not sent to radio and does not have a music video, sales may suffer greatly (and perhaps in many cases even be close to nill) but it has been 'created' as a single by the virtue of the differing release date from its album. EXCEPTION is the iTunes pre-release of 'songs' (album tracks) like one a week prior to an album's release. In spite of what iTunes page header may say of being a 'single' from XXX (album), I consider these as 'promotional songs' only and not 'singles' at all.—Iknow23 (talk) 06:48, 20 November 2010 (UTC)

Orphaned references in Joy (Fefe Dobson album)
I check pages listed in Category:Pages with incorrect ref formatting to try to fix reference errors. One of the things I do is look for content for orphaned references in wikilinked articles. I have found content for some of Joy (Fefe Dobson album)'s orphans, the problem is that I found more than one version. I can't determine which (if any) is correct for this article, so I am asking for a sentient editor to look it over and copy the correct ref content into this article.

Reference named "allmusic": From Kevin Rudolf:  From Start All Over:  

I apologize if any of the above are effectively identical; I am just a simple computer program, so I can't determine whether minor differences are significant or not. AnomieBOT ⚡ 05:27, 6 December 2010 (UTC)

There should be absolutely NO dispute that "I Want You" is a single.
It has BOTH an independent of the album sales ("Release") date AND radio add date just as "Ghost" and "Stuttering" does.—Iknow23 (talk) 01:53, 9 March 2011 (UTC)

Here is an OFFICIAL Joy poster that shows "Ghost", "I Want You", and "Watch Me Move" with EQUAL billing.
http://i.ebayimg.com/12/!B)YZHLwEGk~$(KGrHqYOKjYEwtVE2y,OBMNNvFi0gg_3.JPG You may note that the singles are listed in reverse order of their release date. "Stuttering" is not shown as this was prior to it. However just because "Stuttering" came out, it doesn't mean that "I Want You", and "Watch Me Move" are no longer singles. Buzz singles? What are those? WP:Weasel Why are they promo songs? Just because they weren't hit smashes doesn't mean they were promo. They have sales release dates and videos and "I Want You" has a Radio add date too. Just because they have had less success than "Ghost" and "Stuttering" cannot change the fact that they have already been released as singles.—Iknow23 (talk) 04:09, 16 March 2011 (UTC)
 * Also everyone is welcome to join the discussion HERE. Here's a quote found there from someone else regarding this type of situation. "But technically it is a single. was it not released digitally? did it not receive airplay? was it not given a music video? what defines "Wait your Turn" as a non-single? ... the label calling is a promo? well Mariah Carey calls "Obsessed" a "summer single" what the hell is a summer single? is it like Spanish album? lol at the end of the day labels love to label things differently if they're not successful e.g. "Go Girl" = promo single, "Wait Your Turn" = introductory single, "Obsessed" = summer single, "Whatever U Like" = club single. IMO they're all singles.... end of. none of this promo vs official single malarkey... — Lil_℧niquℇ №1 [talk] 03:29, 7 March 2011 (UTC)" Of course you do not have to agree with this, but then please explain how to define a buzz single. A single that just has low success cannot be an acceptable definition. Look at it this way, would anyone be trying to say "Watch Me Move" and "I Want You" were 'promotional' or 'buzz' if they charted at number 1 (for example) in the US or Canada (the only countries they were released, afaik). Also the same with ALL the other 'promotional' or 'buzz' singles? If low success is the defining point where does it occur? If the song fails to chart at all? Or if it charts below the top 80% of the chart, etc? There has to be some criteria that makes it 'promotional' or 'buzz'.—Iknow23 (talk) 01:21, 17 March 2011 (UTC)
 * And what about albums that have been released. It is still a released album even if it has no sales whatsoever. If they have no or low success do you call them 'promotional' or 'buzz' albums? Or just an album that has been released?...(With differentiate between Studio, Live, Compilation, etc.)—Iknow23 (talk) 01:43, 17 March 2011 (UTC)

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