Talk:Juan Martín del Potro/Archive 1

Requested move
The name of this article should be changed to "Juan Martin del Potro" because that is the name used on the English-language websites of the official governing bodies of tennis, which are the Association of Tennis Professionals and the International Tennis Federation. This is also the name used on the English-language website of Davis Cup. Finally, this is the name used on the English-language websites of the following Grand Slam tournaments: the French Open (Roland Garros), Wimbledon, the Australian Open, and the US Open. Tennis expert (talk) 04:29, 13 June 2008 (UTC)

2009
I trimmed down the section for 2009, here's the original:

2009
In his second appearance at the Heineken Open in Auckland, New Zealand (after a straight-set defeat to compatriot Agustin Calleri as a wildcard entry in 2007), Del Potro was the top seed for the tournament. After a first-round bye, Del Potro defeated Latvian Ernests Gulbis in three sets in his opening match of the season. He went on to defeat Serbian Viktor Troicki in the quarter-final and Swede Robin Söderling in the semi-final. Del Potro then defeated American Sam Querrey in the final 6–4, 6–4 to win the title, the fifth of his career.

Seeded eighth at the Australian Open, Del Potro disposed of Germans Mischa Zverev and Florian Mayer in the opening two rounds, before defeating third-round opponent Gilles Muller in four sets, coming back from a set down. Del Potro did the same in the fourth round, defeating Croatian Marin Cilic 5–7, 6–4, 6–4, 6–2. Del Potro then was dominated by Roger Federer in the quarterfinals 6–3, 6–0, 6–0.

At the BNP Paribas Open, Del Potro was seeded 6th. He defeated Ryan Sweeting, Jurgen Melzer, and John Isner en route to the quarterfinals, where he was eventually defeated by world no.1 Rafael Nadal 6–2, 6–4.

At the Sony Ericsson Open, Del Potro came back from a double break down in the third set at 0–3, to defeat Rafael Nadal in the quarterfinals 6–4, 3–6, 7–6(3). This was the first time Del Potro had defeated the World No. 1, Nadal. Despite defeat in the semi-final to Andy Murray, 6–1, 5–7, 6–2, he had gained enough ranking points to reach a career high of world no 5. Alonsornunez Comments  15:52, 14 April 2009 (UTC)

9/14/09- fixed W to be a bold W next to his 2009 US Open win like other tennis winners.. fixed federer v del potro score to the correct one (second tiebreak score was incorrect) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.244.101.118 (talk) 00:48, 15 September 2009 (UTC)

4 titles in as many tournaments?
I'm not sure what this phrase is supposed to mean. He won 4 tournaments straight, but the source says nothing about him being the first to do so. Also, it's misleading as these four tournaments were certainly not his first tournaments. I'm in favour of removing this line. 82.168.48.157 (talk) 20:42, 3 June 2009 (UTC)


 * If you read the article, you'll see that it has been properly quoted. Here's the part that mentions the info in question, from the ATP official website:

''In capturing four straight titles he becomes the first player in ATP history to win his first four titles in as many tournaments. He is now the 12th different teenager to win at least four titles in a season; 10 of the previous 11 all reached No. 1 in their career.''

--Nat91 (talk) 04:07, 19 June 2009 (UTC)

Career statistics section
Grand Slam performance table is duplicated as it is also included in the Singles performance table beneath. Remove like the articles on other tennis players? Feudonym (talk) 04:44, 15 September 2009 (UTC)

That sounds like a good idea, as long as it matches the same format as other articles, and doesn't lose any information. Also, redundancy isn't good. Kevinmon (talk) 02:33, 17 September 2009 (UTC)

Recurrence of wrist injury section
Del Potro injured his left wrist in 2012, his right wrist is fine. So this is not a recurrence. I'm going to re-title it. — Preceding unsigned comment added by SmoledMan (talk • contribs) 07:53, 9 March 2014 (UTC)

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The pronunciation
In theory, the [n] in Juan (Juan Martín) is assimilated to [m]. But said the pronunciation in the source is [n]? The pronunciation by Juan Martín del Potro himself LoveVanPersie (talk) 15:10, 27 October 2017 (UTC)
 * This may be dialect-dependent, but I'd still transcribe it . I don't have a source though. Mr KEBAB (talk) 15:14, 27 October 2017 (UTC)
 * If it is dialect-dependent, should this be the default, and the only authoritative pronunciation in the article? I know this is not a reliable source, but Spanish/Pronunciation on Wikibooks agrees that "n" is pronounced "Like n in no. Before p, b, f and v (and in some regions m) sounds as m in important". If it is really only in some regions, and obviously not in Juan Martín's region, then I really would not choose it for this article.&mdash;J. M. (talk) 15:37, 27 October 2017 (UTC)
 * You're right, Wikibooks is not a reliable source. Phonemically, Juan Martín is or, if you're into archiphonemes. But Help:IPA/Spanish lists phonetic, not phonemic symbols and the IPA-es template encloses transcriptions within brackets, not slashes. The  assimilation is mandatory before , but I'm not sure about  and I'd rather not discuss this further without a valid source. This is not very important by the way, as Spanish has no phonemic distinction between word-final nasals. Mr KEBAB (talk) 15:56, 27 October 2017 (UTC)
 * He very clearly pronounces it as "xwan maɾˈtin". And so do Spanish-speaking commentators I can hear live right now in his Basel match. I can understand that someone can say something like "xwamaɾˈtin", but if you really insist that it is "xwam maɾˈtin", that is, with double "m", then you really have to provide a very authoritative source for this claim, as it directly contradicts the provided source, that is, the pronunciation by Juan Martín himself. &mdash;J. M. (talk) 15:20, 27 October 2017 (UTC)

here and here it is said that the sequence is generally realized as, or at least that  weakens being in coda position before a consonant. According to this text (pp. 133-134) it becomes a coarticulation (probably a way to say it is not a pure ), as opposed to  (→  or ). Moreover, Spanish phonology states is realized as a bilabial before other bilabials, without specifying this does not occur before. Since we are supposed to transcribe a standard pronunciation, even admitting he actually “clearly” pronounces it with, we should leave it as , possibly with a side note. イヴァン スクルージ 九十八 （会話） 17:30, 18 December 2018 (UTC)
 * The pronunciation should first and foremost reflect the actual pronunciation (and it cannot in any case contradict the provided authoritative source). The fact is that Juan Martín himself and basically all Spanish-speaking commentators (and commentators in other languages, too) say [xwan maɾˈtin], not [xwam maɾˈtin] (e.g., , , ). So that's how his name should be pronounced. Wikipedia always prefers real-world usage in everything. Besides, Spanish has many regional variations, there is no single Spanish pronunciation that applies to all dialects. Juan Martín is Argentinian.
 * Now, you mention [n͡m]. And that indeed looks correct. But [n͡m] (or even [mː]) is not [m], and definitely not [m m]. When native Spanish speakers pronounce his name slowly, they say [xwan maɾˈtin], that is, with a clearly separated [n] at the end of "Juan". When they say it more quickly, they say [xwanmaɾˈtin], you could perhaps describe it as [xwan͡maɾˈtin], and maybe, just maybe, in some cases even [xwamːaɾˈtin]. But definitely not [xwam maɾˈtin], that is, with a double "m" with a pause between the two "m"s, and with a clear, separated "m" at the end of "Juan". That is simply wrong and I've never heard anyone pronounce it like that. So, as a compromise, I suggest the [xwan͡maɾˈtin] variant. It is both correct (people really pronounce it like that), and it is supported by your source.—J. M. (talk) 19:29, 18 December 2018 (UTC)
 * first of all, the transcription can be a broader way of representing, in this case because it spans two separate words (Wikipedia’s transcriptions are only as narrow as to approximate single languages when there are dedicated helps); also, the source suggests  stands for something between  and , possibly , in which case it should be approximated as  in our transcriptions (just assuming). [[File:Italy.png]]  イヴァン スクルージ 九十八 （会話）[[File:Italy.png]] 20:13, 18 December 2018 (UTC)
 * I really do not think the transcription should be based on theoretical assumptions (based on a couple of inconclusive theroretical sources), approximations and guesswork, especially when they contradict real-world usage. The sources are not unequivocal and convincing and really do not suggest to me that it should be [xwam maɾˈtin]. I really think two separate names, "Juan" and "Martín" are different from the examples mentioned in your sources, that is single words or nouns with prepositions like "conmigo" or "con María". When people say his name slowly and clearly, there is no doubt at all that the pronunciation is nothing else than [xwan maɾˈtin] (e.g. ). That's the "basic", elementary pronunciation of his name. It is only when people say "Juan Martín" very quickly when the [n] at the end of "Juan" gets less distinct (but does not disappear completely), but I do not think this has much to do with Spanish pronunciation. This is just a general feature of human speech, typical for many different languages. When you say a couple of words very quickly, they sort of get welded together, the n͡m joint in quick speech is not unique to Spanish. But I don't think the pronuncation should try to emulate quick, casual speech. It should just present the basic ("canonical") form.—J. M. (talk) 17:40, 19 December 2018 (UTC)

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