Talk:Julia (daughter of Juba II)

Birth year confusion
The title of the article and the birth category give 5 [AD]; the article says that her birth year is uncertain but could be 8 BCE and cites Roller 2003. Should the title and birth category be changed?; Also the life subsection mentions the 5 [AD] birth year--FeanorStar7 (talk) 16:41, 21 May 2011 (UTC)
 * I think it's pretty clear we don't know her birthdate, so yes, the title will need changing and the category removed. But it get's worse. According to this book we have given her Drusilla of Mauretania (born 38)'s parents. Note that it neither provides parents or a birth date, just says first century CE. If you search, ignore anything by the fringe author R(alph) Ellis.
 * Our article says no siblings. One of the sources for that is which will make your head ache if you see what it says about dates and her alleged father Juba II, who was according to the book and our article long dead by 5 CE and is uncertain about whether he hard a daughter named Drusilla or a granddaughter.
 * These two Drusillas might even be the same person. The other Drusilla is perhaps this one: which seems to be the one mentioned in my first source. Dougweller (talk) 17:48, 21 May 2011 (UTC)
 * There is probably only one Drusilla of Mauretania--for several reasons. While it is likely that Juba II and Cleopatra Selene had a daughter (as attested to by Athenian inscription), she is not named. Given Cleopatra Selene's insistence upon advertising her ties to the Ptolemaic dynasty, she would have more likely named her daughter a Cleopatra or Berenice than she would have named her Drusilla. (As per Chris Bennet's work on the Ptolemies.) In Roller's work on Juba II he has trouble with the notion that this daughter would have been the Drusilla of Mauretania who married Antonius Felix, because she could have been born no later than 5 BCE if his estimated date on Cleopatra Selene's death is correct. He mentions in his subsequent biography of Cleopatra that it's possible Drusilla was actually the granddaughter of Selene. This leaves us with two girls, but not necessarily two Drusillas. --Stephdray (talk) 03:44, 13 July 2011 (UTC)
 * And see Royal Family of Emesa which mentions a Drusilla of Mauretania. Dougweller (talk) 17:51, 21 May 2011 (UTC)


 * Thanks for the info. I have access to Roller at work. I will look at it next week and give you an update; I hope it mentions the other Drusilla.--FeanorStar7 (talk) 20:06, 21 May 2011 (UTC)


 * That's great. I worked on this two years ago and seem to have had access to Roller then, I'm not sure how. So some of this is my fault: . Dougweller (talk) 20:50, 21 May 2011 (UTC)

Update
I have looked at Roller's book; he says that Drusilla (born 8BC?) is the daughter of Juba II and Kleopatra Selene and is the sister of Ptolemaios (Ptolemy of Mauretania). Drusilla (born 38) is apparently Ptolemy's daughter. There is also a Drusilla of Judaea that Roller mentions who was the third wife of Felix, who had married "our" Drusilla mentioned here.

Roller gives Ptolemy's birth and death dates as 13/9BC to AD 40 which means I think he believes that Ptolemy was born either in 13 or 9 BC. The WP article for Ptolemy says he was born in 1 BC. So we have a further problem.


 * The WP article for Ptolemy of Mauretania is absolutely incorrect when it says that Ptolemy was born in 1 BCE unless we discount Roller's theory that Cleopatra Selene died in 5 BCE. There are scholars--most of whom are dead--who believed that Cleopatra Selene lived until 17, but the current theory, based on correlating astronomical data with the eulogy written by Krinagoras of Mytilene, is that she died during the lunar eclipse of 5 BCE which makes it impossible that Ptolemy could have been born in 1 BCE. --Stephdray (talk) 03:49, 13 July 2011 (UTC)

I think based on what I have found that we should rename this article to: Drusilla of Mauretania (born about 8 BC). I hope this is clear; comments?--FeanorStar7 (talk) 17:38, 19 June 2011 (UTC)


 * I am still trying to figure out how we deal with such uncertainty, see for instance. Can you think of a venue where we can discuss it? Dougweller (talk) 18:50, 19 June 2011 (UTC)


 * Do you mean discuss it outside of Wikipedia? I don't have any ideas.--FeanorStar7 (talk) 22:15, 19 June 2011 (UTC)

Title
Given the considerable uncertainty which surrounds her date of birth and a few other things about her, have we any alternative except to make her Drusilla of Mauretania Senior, or something similar? PatGallacher (talk) 14:17, 19 June 2013 (UTC)

Requested move

 * The following discussion is an archived discussion of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section. 

The result of the proposal was moved. --BDD (talk) 19:23, 1 July 2013 (UTC)

Drusilla of Mauretania (born 5) → Drusilla of Mauretania the Elder – There is uncertainty about whether she was born in 5, or what her year of birth was, and a few other things about her, so that this seems like the least problematic title. PatGallacher (talk) 21:29, 24 June 2013 (UTC) PatGallacher (talk) 21:29, 24 June 2013 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

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