Talk:Juliet Simms

Scientology
There is clearly quite a discussion on whether to include Simms involvement in Scientology in this page. I am quite involved in this as I check the edits on this page quite a lot but I am not the only one who has contributed to this section. It seems like I am always having to fix the deletions made by people to return the sourced and factual section. The Scientology section should stay. Most pages of celebrities who have religious beliefs include mentions of their religious beliefs so why should Simms' page be any different. The only reason I can see is obsessed Juliet fans wishing to erase any possible negative thing about Juliet due to the controversial nature of Scientology (as they often delete the section about the altercation on the plane as well). — Preceding unsigned comment added by Keepingitcool (talk • contribs) 16:34, 5 July 2017 (UTC)

Claim that picture is not free
Rather than revert the removal of picture again, I'm asking for evidence that it is not free to use. When I click on the picture I'm taken to its page, which indicates that it is licensed for use in the various Wikimedia sites. Can the IP who has removed it twice please explain? Beeswaxcandle (talk) 05:44, 9 March 2010 (UTC)

Non-admin closure
What a ridiculous decision to close and to keep it. The discussion was still active and was tending to a redirect rather then keep. This decision is challenged at Wikipedia:Deletion review. Night of the Big Wind talk  03:48, 7 January 2012 (UTC)
 * And it went back to AFD, and an administrator just closed it as Keep, not redirect.   D r e a m Focus  14:10, 14 January 2012 (UTC)

September drive
I am working on this article for the Sept 2012 drive and have inserted the relevant tag.--Soulparadox (talk) 15:13, 28 September 2012 (UTC)

Panda Rock Out Concert in Singapore
Is this relevant to expand? It's a panda conservation comcert she performed at in 2012. - ⊾maine12329⊿  talk  03:08, 3 January 2013 (UTC)
 * This is worth including in the article, so thanks for posting it here. I can look at it, but please feel free to add it. Regards,--Soulparadox (talk) 15:51, 28 December 2014 (UTC)

Confusion regarding Umbrella Records?
I have removed a section about Simms signing with Umbrella Records at the age of 16, and the label then going out of business in its first year, as it was in conflict with a latter section that contained the same information. Does anyone know if she signed with them at the age of 16, or in 2009 when she was 23? Regards,--Soulparadox (talk) 15:51, 28 December 2014 (UTC)

Marriage to Andy Biersack
A sudden flurry of edits in the past 48 hours have attempted to add this information to the article in various spots. There is no method of adding it to the Infobox. Spouse is simply not a valid parameter. If editors wish to add the information it belongs in the Biography section with a reliable source. All other attempts to add will be reverted by the various page watchers. Beeswaxcandle (talk) 08:39, 19 April 2016 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 12 May 2016
add birth date as February 26, 1986. Add marriage to Andy Biersack on April 16th, 2016.

Whitecrosses (talk) 12:40, 12 May 2016 (UTC)
 * Red information icon with gradient background.svg Not done: as you have not cited reliable sources to back up your request, without which no information should be added to, or changed in, any article. - Arjayay (talk) 16:09, 12 May 2016 (UTC)

In-flight domestic violence incident.
I frankly do not understand why this has been deleted, though I am happy someone took the time to reverse the deletion.

While it was cited as "not news", it was newsworthy enough that several media outlets reported on the incident, and Biersack, Simms, as well as Chris Biersack (Andy's father and Juliet's father-in-law) have taken to social media in order to maintain some PR damage. Furthermore, it was cited as "a minor incident". I fail to see how engaging in physical violence and essentially verbally and physically abusing your spouse on a flight merits a minor incident. By that logic, the section in Emma Roberts' article detailing the "minor incident" where she began hitting Evan Peters should also be deleted.

I don't believe this should be removed from the article. I see no feasible explanation as to why it does not belong here, it was not a "minor incident." — Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.199.56.75 (talk) 16:15, 4 November 2016 (UTC)


 * When an editor cites WP:NOTNEWS they are indicating that this is an encyclopaedia and not a newspaper. I do not deny reportage by the media. If in the course of time it is found that this incident in the life of a young married couple is found to be a defining moment, then by all means it belongs in the encyclopaedia. I don't believe that it will and that is what I mean by "minor". If this incident had happened in the car on the way to the airport, no-one would have seen it nor would it have been reported. Just because it happened on an aeroplane doesn't make it any more encyclopaedic. At the very least the paragraph needs rewriting to an encyclopaedic tone instead of the current "in the moment" news style. Beeswaxcandle (talk) 19:07, 4 November 2016 (UTC)


 * True enough. I did trim the entry down a bit and rewrote it. 69.199.56.75 (talk) 19:45, 4 November 2016 (UTC)

Request for semi-protection
In light of recent events concerning the domestic violence incident/quarrel between Andy and Juliet, the encyclopedic nature of the incident is going south. It went from an encyclopedia entry to "Well this was only said by X so it's not proven and blah blah blah." This is very quickly turning into a flame war/drama debate on the article and therefore can be susceptible to vandalism by both fans of Juliet and fans of Andy.

Ultimately the event occurred, and I reverted the edits as best I could to refrain from it becoming a sensationalized news topic within her article and tried to keep it factual/void of bias but this has the potential to spiral out of control. I vote adding a semi-protection onto the article to prevent further issues/vandalism/fandom disputes while keeping the current entry regarding the incident intact (though if anyone feels it can be summarized in a more transparent manner without turning into a bicker fest, I implore you to do so.)2607:FB90:2202:F086:A880:60C9:449F:2037 (talk) 02:47, 5 November 2016 (UTC)

Potential Edit SOURCE: A video story blog about Juliet Simms was created by ex porn star Mary Carey (who has over 20 entries on TMZ) and who was herself kicked off a plane flight to Miami in 2013. Carey has appeared on Celebrity Rehab and VH1 requested for her to do celebrity Re-Rehab. http://www.miaminewtimes.com/news/drunk-porn-star-mary-carey-kicked-off-plane-in-miami-6536565 http://www.tmz.com/2016/03/12/mary-carey-drunk-wasted-divorce-video/ http://www.tmz.com/2009/04/04/mary-carey-needs-celebrity-re-rehab/

In her story video blog Ms. Carey, who also appeared to be drunk on a weekend flight accuses passenger Juliet Simms of slapping husband Andy after having too much to drink. 115 pound Juliet, who had been sober for over a year fell off the wagon consuming 3 glasses of champagne after a week of travel and sudden and upsetting personal loss which Ms. Carey reported on happily to TMZ- no doubt earning her a pay check and some moral retribution in the misery loves company category of her own misdeads. Simms was not charged with any crime but was escorted off the plane which is standard procedure for the removal of intoxicated persons from planes. This incident has been picked up by many fans of teen idol Andy Biersack, Juliet's husband, who have accused 5'8" 110 pound Juliet of domestic violence against their 6'2 175 pound idol in an adolescent attempt to embarrass the girl who married their dream guy. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Sure Templeton (talk • contribs) 22:37, 4 July 2017 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 7 November 2016
The in-flight domestic violence incident.

Why was this deleted? It's been discussed to keep, as someone else has already pointed out on the edit history.

WHY THIS SECTION WAS DELETED This section was deleted because the original source is a tabloid video "account" of the incident sold to TMZ by a fading porn star who then attempted to contact the couple on Twitter and IG to get attention. Emma Roberts was arrested and it happened at a hotel room. Juliet was not even charged and she was on a plane. It's not the same. If it were she very likely would have been charged as she was surrounded by witnesses and violence on planes is more serious than in hotel rooms. Because other media outlets picked it up does not mean it is true, just that it is a story. If you listen to the video of Juliet she did not strike Biersack but accused Biersack. The source is not mainstream media or even a credible reference, it is tabloid gossip and does not belong on this platform as stated in the guidelines for credible Wikipedia sources. The inclusion of this isolated incident where no charges were brought to try to try and encapsulate historical behavior is is a poor representation of her true life. If you would like to include it please include the true source: Ex Porn Star records video of herself to report on exhausted young couple who had just experienced a big loss and had too much to drink and then sells it to TMZ. That's the ONLY source. Any other gossip sites that picked it up are parroting an isolated incident where no law was broken and no charges were brought. In my opinion including it is an attempt to degrade Juliet.

Furthermore it DOES prove to be an event in her life that has had a significant impact. She has already addressed this on social media. She has addressed her alcoholism, which led to the event taking place, and has further apologized for the actions she made and swore to change it. This is far more a significant event that it is being written off as and is not a grounds for "fan wars." The edits made were not in ANY WAY derogatory nor demeaning to Juliet Simms. They simply stated what had occurred, were trimmed down to avoid bloat and media reporting-esque tone, and met Wiki guidelines. At this point it isn't about "whether or not it was a minor event"--we've clearly witnessed the impact it's had and anyone who follows either of their careers can infer that it conclusively is a big deal to Juliet and her husband both.

^^^ If you feel it is a "big deal to her and her husband both" then why have you not added it to Andy's article?

The person who reversed the edit not only neglected to check the Talk page previously discussing the entry on the incident that occurred, they additionally had an attitude regarding it. A conclusion had already been reached. Also, someone else went in and deleted the previous comments made about the issue on this page itself, which was reversed by Beeswaxcandle.

Additionally, I stand by my previous argument--why not just delete the section of Emma Roberts' article where she was engaged in a physical altercation with Evan Peters? Since it had about the same coverage, it could be deemed a "minor incident."

Answer to above^^^ Emma Roberts was arrested in a hotel. Juliet was not even charged on a plane which is a location with harsher laws. It is totally different.

I request it be re-added. It was well-sourced, it met Wikipedia guidelines, it has had a significant impact to the person(s) it concerned, and I see no reason why it merits deletion.

69.199.56.75 (talk) 17:28, 7 November 2016 (UTC)
 * Padlock-silver-open.svg Not done: The page's protection level has changed since this request was placed. You should now be able to edit the page yourself. If you still seem to be unable to, please reopen the request with further details. Topher385 (talk) 10:44, 14 November 2016 (UTC)

Rv, why
Per BLP, instagram, truthaboutscientology, tumblr, teamrock, dailymail are not RS, especially for a BLP. Darkness Shines (talk) 18:19, 11 July 2017 (UTC)


 * Understood. In regards to the plane incident, while TMZ isn't the best source it does have video evidence not only of the occurrence but of eyewitness testimony. I condensed this as much as possible, but I do believe it merits staying within the article as in this case there is proof that it is not sensationalized tabloid gossip. As for the Scientology, it is evident that at one point she was a member and still acknowledges the organization -- the tattoo, in particular, is from a written letter by L. Ron Hubbard himself. I believe that the sources for her still being a Scientologist as of 2012 stand, due to it being a Florida-centered newspaper. I left in the tidbit of her marrying Andy Biersack as well, solely due to the fact that frankly, aside from being on The Voice that's the one thing she's most known for (she works with him on almost everything either one of them do, and Automatic Loveletter was more of an indie emo band in the mid-2000s so not a lot of people know who they are in comparison to acts such as Black Veil Brides.) If this is still not up to BLP standard, I understand its deletion. Syd Highwind (talk) 18:54, 11 July 2017 (UTC)
 * None of those sources are RS, especially for a BLP, please revert your addition. Darkness Shines (talk) 19:05, 11 July 2017 (UTC)
 * Will do. Syd Highwind (talk) 19:08, 11 July 2017 (UTC)

Propose article be renominated for deletion.
I think we should revisit the subject of merging and redirecting this article referencing the AfD discussion in 2012. Aside from her work on "The Voice" and Automatic Loveletter, she herself is not entirely notable (meaning as a solo artist, she is not notable, nor as notable as other alumni of The Voice.) Plus, this article is frequently subjected to vandalism and BLP violations by both fans and critics of Simms, edit wars to the point to where other editors think edit wars are being started without that being the case (for example, I now have a blurb on my talk page saying I engaged in an edit war with Darkness Shines, though I wasn't trying to do that and all of my edits were in good faith and I was genuinely asking questions) and it's to the point to where there are actual tumblrs that are dedicated hate or fan blogs monitoring the article to change it to portray the individual in a positive or negative light, both of which violate Wiki guidelines. Most sources related to current day are not BLP compliant. It's overall a contentious article, Automatic Loveletter has its own standalone article as does The Voice, and seeing as that's where her achievements truly lie I believe we should redirect Juliet Simms to Automatic Loveletter and splice/merge pertinent information regarding her tenure with both ALL and The Voice to their respective articles.

At the very least, if not this, I think some protections need to be added. Syd Highwind (talk) 19:44, 11 July 2017 (UTC)

Lets explain, again
Please stop restoring the "personal life" junk, cltampa.com is not RS, I see no evidence of editorial control on their website. www.cs.cmu.edu is a SPS and cannot be used in a BLP, http://stealherstyle.net is obviously not RS, http://www.tmz.com seems to have no editorial oversight that I can see so not RS Darkness Shines (talk) 16:46, 14 July 2017 (UTC)

Edit Warring
Stop it. Thank you. -Ad Orientem (talk) 00:19, 16 July 2017 (UTC)

External links modified
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Semi-protected edit request on 30 July 2019
Juliet dated Corey Alex, an aspiring artist/writer back in 2010 when they met at a Vans Warped Tour stop. Although they only dated for a few months, this was an impactful relationship for Juliet as she dedicates a lot of her writing to Corey's writing style during their short time together. Alxmakk (talk) 21:03, 30 July 2019 (UTC)
 * Pending-protection-unlocked.svg Not done: The page's protection level has changed since this request was placed. You should now be able to edit the page yourself. If you still seem to be unable to, please reopen the request with further details. That said, please keep in mind that any information added to this article must be supported by citations to reliable sources. See WP:BLP. &#8209;&#8209; El Hef  ( Meep? ) 12:51, 31 July 2019 (UTC)