Talk:Julius Harrison

Works
I know this list of works should be in  chronological order, but  I  was unable to find dates for most  of them. There are many sources of information about Harrison, but while descriptions of the music are long, complex, and mostly subjective: ''Gentle, undemonstrative English pastoral music - cow pat stuff, heard it all before - you might say? Think again, or rather listen again. How many times do you have to pass a hedge before you notice there are a million things to be seen in it? Go have another look - or do I mean another listen?'' details about the person are sparse.'--Kudpung (talk) 05:58, 27 December 2009 (UTC)

Images
There's a problem with using all those album covers. They have been uploaded as "fair use" but see: Fair use Voceditenore (talk) 07:17, 29 December 2009 (UTC)


 * Thanks for pointing this out. I have had the images deleted as per WP:CSD G7. --Kudpung (talk) 03:39, 31 December 2009 (UTC)


 * Since the subject is deceased, it would be OK to add an image of him to the top of the article, provided you write a "fair use" rationale. You need to find a photo where you know who the photographer/copyright holder is, such this one. If you need an example of how to write a fair use rationale in cases like this, see File:Vincent Dethier 1915-1993.jpg. Best, Voceditenore (talk) 17:30, 31 December 2009 (UTC)

Works lists
These need work, mainly because the very first list under Selected works has a bunch of stuff with no indication of what the compositions are. They should probably be put into the relevant categories which appear below that list. For example, Autumn Days was composed in 1952 and is for solo piano. This page at britishmusiccollection.org.uk may be of help with that. Voceditenore (talk) 18:32, 2 December 2016 (UTC)


 * Since the entire list was overly long, I've moved it to List of compositions by Julius Harrison per standard practice, and found info on the uncategorized works and moved them to the appropriate sections. There are still some pre-existing items in various sections that do not have dates. Feel free to edit the list article, and/or bring back some of the items to this article (but of course only selections, not the entire overly long list). Softlavender (talk) 12:05, 5 December 2016 (UTC)

Further sources
Please feel free to add to this list of further sources to cull information from and/or use as citations. I have also added a template at top of this talk page (under the banner) to aid finding further sources. Softlavender (talk) 10:41, 5 December 2016 (UTC)


 * http://www.musicweb-international.com/scowcroft/Composerconductors3.htm
 * http://www.requiemsurvey.org/composers.php?id=371
 * https://books.google.com/books?id=g-FzJC-B51EC&pg=PA200
 * http://landofllostcontent.blogspot.com/search/label/Julius%20Harrison
 * http://landofllostcontent.blogspot.com/2008/04/julius-harrison-bredon-hill.html
 * https://books.google.com/books?id=Q7ikDAAAQBAJ&pg=PA203&lpg=PA203
 * http://www.jstor.org/stable/912768
 * 

Let's change the citation for Cleopatra
One of the current citations for Cleopatra is pretty dismal IMO, because it is so negative and cryptic:.

Can we switch it out to one or more of the following?


 * highlighted: ; shortlink: https://books.google.com/books?id=N_E2AQAAMAAJ&pg=PA270
 * highlighted: ; shortlink: https://books.google.com/books?id=1gzlAAAAMAAJ&pg=PA67
 * http://ml.oxfordjournals.org/content/75/2/309.extract
 * http://www.bris.ac.uk/news/2016/march/the-vision-of-cleopatra.html
 * http://www.worcesternews.co.uk/news/7764894.Worcestershire_s_other_composer/ (gives incorrect date)
 * http://www.concertprogrammes.org.uk/html/search/verb/GetRecord/5046/

-- Softlavender (talk) 10:49, 17 December 2016 (UTC)

, Except that one source says te Norwich Festival cantata prize was 1907 and another says 1908. Who do we believe? Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 12:59, 17 December 2016 (UTC)


 * Hi, I've been off-wiki for a couple of days. I just now took a re-look at all the links I posted above, and they all state 1908 except the 2001 Worcester News article, which I've now crossed out. Would you agree to using one of the others as a replacement for the Jeffrey Green book (which is a biography of Samuel Coleridge-Taylor)? Softlavender (talk) 22:25, 19 December 2016 (UTC)
 * . I don't mind. Do whatever you think fit. The important thing is accuracy in Wikipedia. Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 22:35, 19 December 2016 (UTC)


 * OK, I've used the two secondary sources above, rather than the primary-source concert reviews/lists. Softlavender (talk) 23:36, 20 December 2016 (UTC)

Conundrum
Hi all, I happened just now to carefully read the 1994 Music & Letters review of Geoffrey Self's 1993 biography book on Harrison, and it contradicts something that's in this wiki article, something whose source I can't check because I don't currently have a subscription to Grove online. Here's the rub: The Music & Letters review of Self's book says:

Our wiki article reads (emphasis mine):

I'm concerned about this contradiction and the accuracy of the underscored text. I found another iteration of the Self quotation itself, without the superlative accolade, here:. It's not clear to me when the Grove profile was written, or why (if he did) Self would have changed his mind. I'm going to ping, who added the text in question , and ask him to double-check the wording in Grove. If we are at all unsure about this contradiction, would it perhaps not be best to word it like the source I just gave -- that is, without the superlative/accolade? Alternatively, we could perhaps omit "rates Harrison's finest works as" entirely, or perhaps substitute the term "most substantial" for the word "finest". I would be interested in everyone's take on this. Softlavender (talk) 00:15, 21 December 2016 (UTC)


 * New Comment: Suggestion: An alternate possibility of wording:

"His biographer, Geoffrey Self, writes that after 1940 Harrison wrote a series of substantial works; he notes particularly Bredon Hill and the Violin Sonata (1946), works which, in Self's view, are influenced respectively by Brahms and Vaughan Williams. He notes that Harrison's Mass in C (1936–47) and Requiem (1948–57), both of which he describes as "conservative and contrapuntally complex", were "influenced by Bach and Verdi respectively [with] a mastery of texture and a massive yet balanced structure"."

Or:

"His biographer, Geoffrey Self, writes that after 1940 Harrison wrote a series of substantial works; he notes particularly Bredon Hill and the Violin Sonata (1946), works which, in Self's view, are influenced respectively by Brahms and Vaughan Williams. He describes Harrison's Mass in C (1936–47) and Requiem (1948–57) as "conservative and contrapuntally complex, influenced by Bach and Verdi respectively [with] a mastery of texture and a massive yet balanced structure"."

-- Softlavender (talk) 02:04, 21 December 2016 (UTC)


 * UPDATE: emailed me the exact full text of the Grove entry. I have now edited the wiki passage in a way which accords sufficiently with that and which no longer contradicts the review of Self's book. I think this is resolved now, and this thread can be hatted or archived if desired. Softlavender (talk) 23:22, 22 December 2016 (UTC)