Talk:Jump Jim Crow

Lyrics
I'm trying to find the lyrics and post them here (should be well past the copyright. So far I can only find the chorus.  -User:Reboot

What about adding the lyrics from the Michelle Shocked version, or at least mentioning it? It is on her album Arkansas Traveler. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.113.41.254 (talk) 18:08, 19 November 2008 (UTC)


 * See discussion of origin, authorship, along with the same chorus, at blackface. Ortolan88


 * Adding lyrics found at a public broadcasting history of Jim Crow laws. Ortolan88

"Bluegrass" Lyrics?
The lyrics of "Jump Jim Crow" from the Bluegrass site (footnotes 4 & 5) are NOT "Bluegrass" lyrics. Bluegrass has its origins in late 1940s mountain music, whereas these racist lyrics come from a much earlier time.

Influence
Justify:
 * ...by white comedian Thomas Dartmouth (T.D.) "Daddy" Rice

and
 * The tune was one of the first major examples of African-American influence in popular music in the United States.

I don't think the possibility that it was inspired by an African-American cripple can really count as 'influence'... Tyrhinis 21:49, 29 March 2006 (UTC)
 * I agree. Zargulon 00:14, 25 April 2006 (UTC)

picture: really Jim Crow?
Are we sure that the picture we're using is really supposed to be the Jim Crow character, as opposed to a less specific caricature? I see it comes from the Jim Crow Museum, that they use it to illustrate their page on "Who was Jim Crow?" and that they titled the image "jimcrow.jpg"... which does suggest that the image is the Jim Crow character... but couldn't it also be the case that they just needed a Jim Crow-ish picture for that page, and titled the jpeg after the page they planned to use it in? We could ask them, of course, but I'm not sure if that would count as original research. --Allen 14:59, 31 March 2007 (UTC)
 * I'm on vacation and away from my books, but I have definitely seen the same image identified in the same way in print. I'll try to give a more specific cite when I get home in a couple of days. — Amcaja ( talk ) 16:11, 31 March 2007 (UTC)


 * This is indeed the correct historical image. I've uploaded a new version, which is higher resolution and includes the whole page, including the caption; you can see Image:Jimcrow.jpg for details and contextual information.--Pharos (talk) 14:36, 16 February 2008 (UTC)

"In Modern English"
This is a little silly. 19th century English is virtually identical to 21st century English—there's no reason to have a "translation". The song isn't written in some pre-modern dialect; it's a phony caricature of AAVE.--Pharos (talk) 14:49, 16 February 2008 (UTC)

Earliest sheet music editions
There appear to have been two of these published in 1832. The E. Riley edition was published in New York (this is the one we have the picture from), and there was a J. Edgar edition published in Philadelphia. The E. Riley edition has 44 stanzas; I don't know about the J. Edgar edition but it seems likely it's the nine stanza version (which is printed on this article, and is perhaps the most commonly reproduced one today). This page appears to have low-resolution views of all the pages of what are probably these two editions. The title of the J. Edgar edition appears to be (from records I have read, I can't make out anything on the low-res image) "Jim Crow: a comic song sung by Mr. Rice at the Chesnut St. Theatre". Maybe someone else can track down the rest of my loose ends?--Pharos (talk) 01:55, 17 February 2008 (UTC)

Notes on Etymology
I have been researching the etymology of Jump Jim Crow for a long time and yesterday finally figured out the whole story, the essence of which has been added to the article with references. Thomas Rice stated that he got the got the idea from overhearing a slave singing a ditty in the streets about crows wheeling and jumping (a reference and quote should probably be added to the article about this, by the way). However, other literary references from the same time period show that this could not have been just this one man's concept. For example, John Quincy Adams' wife wrote a poem to her daughter about dancing crows. Also, there are nursery rhymes from the time period with references to dancing crows. For example, one goes "Crow and caper, caper and crow, there, little baby, there you go, etc." The whole story becomes clear when we find out about the practice of doping beans or corn with whiskey. Since keeping cornfields clear of crows was often the responsibility of young male slaves the origin of the man's ditty was probably of his knowledge of this practice and his observation of its effects on crows. John Chamberlain (talk) 17:16, 7 July 2009 (UTC)

Nice work. I found a secondary reference to the practice in the 1864 Old Farmer's Almanac in Mother Earth News, but I have not seen an original or facsimile and do not have a page number. It would be good to verify and there are copies available on the internet for anyone so inclined to buy.Jojalozzo (talk) 04:12, 8 July 2009 (UTC)

Song for online listening or downloading
Isn't there one single rendition of the song in the public domain, so that we could link it here? Maikel (talk) 15:51, 25 August 2009 (UTC)

External links modified
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Jump Jim Joe
The children song was deleted from this article with the remark there is no evidence for the connection. It has been mentioned by [The American Folk Song Collection from Kodály Center that the alternative title of the children song Jump Jim Joe is Jump Jim Crow. Probably they meant another song with the same title. If you compare that music sheet of Jump Jim Joe with the refrain in the Jump Jim Crow music sheet from 1919 at https://library.duke.edu/rubenstein/scriptorium/sheetmusic/b/b07/b0775/b0775-3-150dpi.html the text is identical except for Crow->Joe and devil->partner. Is that 1919 related to the Jump Jim Crow song of 1828? If not, the deletion is correct, but if the 1919 version is a variant of the 1828 version we should re-add the children song --[[User:Hannolans|Hannolans]] (talk) 20:48, 4 January 2018 (UTC)

The cover says the 1919 song was written by Rida Johnson Young, and music by Sigmund Romberg (https://library.duke.edu/rubenstein/scriptorium/sheetmusic/b/b07/b0775/b0775-1-150dpi.html). So probably we have indeed two independent songs with the same name? EDIT: the song premiered in the Maytime (musical) on Broadway in 1917. --Hannolans (talk) 21:01, 4 January 2018 (UTC)

In the book Anything Goes: A History of American Musical Theatre, 2013 is said the song Jump Jim Crow is '.. using the title and concept of an old minstrel song'. --Hannolans (talk) 21:11, 4 January 2018 (UTC)
 * As you have discovered, this is a different song of the same name. Please read WP:OR and WP:VERIFY. World&#39;s Lamest Critic (talk) 23:50, 4 January 2018 (UTC)
 * I pretty know WP:OR. It was not me who placed the children's song in this article. It was placed here. I only moved that text down. --Hannolans (talk) 08:31, 5 January 2018 (UTC)

Where is the music for this song?
After 10 years of edits, you'd think the Wiki editors here might have found the correct music to this song? Plus variations of additional verses, if any were found? Misty MH (talk) 13:30, 13 October 2019 (UTC)
 * Not sure if this is helpful, but it's recorded music (followed by sheet music): https://www.loc.gov/item/afcreed000120/
 * Not sure if this is helpful, but it's sheet music (preceded by recorded music): https://www.loc.gov/resource/afcreed.reedt039/
 * Misty MH (talk) 15:01, 13 October 2019 (UTC)

Two more early "Jim Crow" images found at the Library of Congress
I found two more early "Jim Crow" images at the Library of Congress, if someone wants to utilize them somehow:

"Jim Crow / GEM [monogram] DIGITAL FILE FROM ORIGINAL ITEM" https://www.loc.gov/resource/pga.13926/ LCCN Permalink https://lccn.loc.gov/2014649335

"Jim Crow" https://www.loc.gov/item/2004669584/ LCCN Permalink https://lccn.loc.gov/2004669584 Misty MH (talk) 14:58, 13 October 2019 (UTC)