Talk:June Preston/Archive 1

dates
The ages stated as of various events are incompatible, by a year or two, with birth in 1931. &mdash;Tamfang 22:32, 11 May 2007 (UTC)

Not sure what this means, but my mom was born in 1928 not 1931 and she is still living. thx — Preceding unsigned comment added by Piress (talk • contribs)

AFD?
I'm considering taking this to AFD. Her film roles were all very minor, and I don't believe she will pass WP:NACTRESS. The Metropolitan Opera Performance Archives are comprehensive, even for their touring performances, and Preston never performed with the company. I did a ProQuest search of the databases of Chicago Tribune, New York Times, Los Angeles Times, Washington Post, Billboard, Variety, etc. and got nothing on her career as an opera singer other than a brief mention of her performing on tour in Columbia with some Met stars while the Met was on hiatus (not actually with the Met). Ultimately, it's clear to me that she was a very minor/ forgettable soprano and child actress. Best.4meter4 (talk) 16:16, 5 January 2022 (UTC)
 * Agreed. Theroadislong (talk) 16:29, 5 January 2022 (UTC)
 * Currently myself and at least one other editor are working on obtaining good sources to establish that June Preston was a notable actress. Do what you believe is best, but please post updates here so that those interested in this article will be aware of what is taking place. Karenthewriter (talk) 17:13, 5 January 2022 (UTC)
 * @ I’d rather hold off and give people time to find references to prove notability. There’s no rush to take this to AFD. I myself added multiple refs to the article in the hopes of saving it. I wish you better luck than what I could do. Best.4meter4 (talk) 17:18, 5 January 2022 (UTC)
 * It is now more than 14 years since her daughter created this article, and in all that time no in-depth sources have been added, there is zero evidence that she passes WP:NSINGER or WP:NACTRESS. Theroadislong (talk) 17:29, 5 January 2022 (UTC)
 * Theroadislong I have just become aware of the shortcomings of this article, so I have not spent 14 years looking for in-depth reliable references. But do whatever you feel is best, and I will continue working on the article until the day that it is deleted. Karenthewriter (talk) 17:45, 5 January 2022 (UTC)
 * I don't think anybody has looked at it in that time period. I really don't. She also had a career as a Soprano singer, which is undiscovered country. I have posted a help requests to the Women in Red Wikiproject and the article rescue squadron to provide help, so it is a least contingent, to wait for a few weeks to see how it pan's out. I severly doubt the Afd will pass, as articles of a similar type and quality, that have been created to provision the early history of Hollywood by User:FloridaArmy have been passing out at draft, for years, on a regular basis. These early Hollywood types don't have a lot of coverage.  There is more to discover.    scope_creep Talk  17:47, 5 January 2022 (UTC)
 * More than happy to wait a few weeks to see what can be found, but with my afc reviewer hat on, this would absolutely be declined at WP:AFC without a doubt. Theroadislong (talk) 18:06, 5 January 2022 (UTC)


 * The conflict of interest and promotional editing is a problem. The only parts we can confirm are that she had a small part in Anne of Green Gables and later sang as part of a fraudster's company in South America? It's not much. I don't see her her among the casts listed for any of the other films. Was she uncredited? I think the entry should be moved.to draftspace. FloridaArmy (talk) 18:24, 5 January 2022 (UTC)
 * @ Yes she had all uncredited parts in the other films if we use the IMDB website as a guide (see https://www.imdb.com/name/nm0696448/). I could find no mention of her in any of the film reviews in Variety, Billboard, Los Angeles Times, and New York Times outside of the Anne of Green Gables film, although her part was so minor in that film that the only mention of her is within cast lists. No mention of her actual performance. I did add a puff piece focusing on her from the LAT in which she is heralded as the new "Shirley Temple" on the announcement of her casting in the Anne of Green Gables film, but this is clearly PR puffery as her film career never materialized into significant roles. Likewise, I could find no critical reviews of her work as a singer. I did find some sources verifying she performed with the Seattle Civic Opera Association and the Seattle University Opera Guild: https://scholarworks.seattleu.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1385&context=spectator, https://scholarworks.seattleu.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1360&context=spectator However, these are not reviews but just routine cast announcements. Certainly not enough to indicate notability. She was also a member of the chorus of the San Francisco Opera (see http://freepages.rootsweb.com/~npmelton/genealogy/sfoa52.htm) There is nothing to demonstrate that her work as an actress or singer meets WP:GNG, WP:NACTRESS, or WP:NSINGER. I would support moving this to draft space.4meter4 (talk) 00:06, 6 January 2022 (UTC)
 * Should not be moved to draftspace. The article is 15 years old and has been worked on by at least a dozen distinct editors (not including daughter and her socks). We don't draftify articles with those characteristics. We either fix them, or AFD them. That's why AFD exists. Softlavender (talk) 09:39, 6 January 2022 (UTC)
 * One reason to keep the article. Frankly, I was of the exact same opinion -- I was going to AFD in a week if no significant coverage in reliable sources were found. Now however I am of the opinion that the article should stand, as an accurate rebuttal to the preposterous bloated claims her daughter has posted on IMDB (biography) and all around the internet. Softlavender (talk) 00:45, 6 January 2022 (UTC)
 * Bear in mind that those are very affectionate preposterous bloated claims, tinged with Proustian melancholy about the loss of information (and indeed fame). Let's be human about this. Card Zero  (talk) 01:43, 6 January 2022 (UTC)
 * When I consider that most of the major claims are outright lies, I'm not inclined to have any patience with them whatsoever. Softlavender (talk) 01:50, 6 January 2022 (UTC)
 * I agree with Softlavendar. There is clearly a great deal of deceptive misrepresentation of the subject by her daughter. I write regularly on 20th century American and European opera singers, and this particular singer does not appear in any publications that one would expect for a singer of the stature being represented by her daughter. She does not appear in the Großes Sängerlexikon, which documents pretty much any singer of note who worked in Europe during that era (there are thousands of singer biographies in that reference work). She is not in any of the Who's Who's Who of Music and Musicians publications. She is not in Baker's Biographical Dictionary of Music and Musicians. She is not in Grove Music Online or in the Grove Book of Opera Singers. She does not appear in the Opera News or Opera Wire archives, two publications which covered work by Americans in European opera houses during the time period she would have been performing and to which I have access. There are no reviews of her performances in American press for her work as a child actress or as a singer (although there are a few press releases with minor regional organizations, but no reviews or discussion of her voice and her work as a singer). In short, there are no independent significant references on this person for either her work as a child actress or as an adult soprano. Admittedly, there might be some foreign language press from the era, but given that the claim that she was a star with the Metropolitan Opera was proven false after a search through the Metropolitan Performance Archives (which has every performer and performance catalogued; even the Met on tour for the company's entire history) I have doubts that there is any truth to the claims that she performed lead roles with opera houses in Europe. My guess is she got part time work as a "cover artist" (on stand by in case the star couldn't perform) or "understudy" but never actually got a contract or performed. That would explain her listing of opera houses and roles while never actually appearing in any media, reviews, or reference works in relation to her work in opera. It also makes her completely not notable.4meter4 (talk) 02:15, 6 January 2022 (UTC)