Talk:Juni and Juli

Untitled
Noembelu is from Mexico, right? In Mexico, they speak Spanish, and November is "Noviembre." Is this supposed to be how you would say "November" in the language her tribe speaks? Which language? Why would the word be somewhat of a cognate? Borrowed words from Spanish?
 * And the names of the two dolls from China, Xiayu and Jianyu, are NOT September and October in Chinese. In Chinese (Mandarin) they should be "Jiuyue" and "Shiyue".

The Noembelu Nightmare
The case of Noembelu is indeed the oddest one. My guess is that the name "Noviembre" is incredibly hard to pronounce by the average japanese speaker. In Spanish it is separated as "No-viem-bre", and it has several consonants that do not normally come together in Japanese, for instance "-br-" or "-mbr-". Even the syllable "-viem-" may be difficult for japanese, who seldom use diphthongs as frequent as they are in Spanish. A more faitful transliteration in katakana might be ノヴィエンブレ novienbure.

Still the question remains if her name should instead be in her supposed indigenous tribe language. ---Anonymous 14/Sep/06


 * Response: Although there are no diphthongs in Japanese, this isn't the big problem. It just causes most people to draw out the syllables in foreign words. A bigger issue is the complete lack of the letter "v" in Japanese. It is possible to make a written "v" as you have done, with "ヴィ," but most people can't pronounce this correctly, and only a very small number of people can hear the difference between "v" and "b". Dekimasu 03:01, 10 September 2006 (UTC)
 * Response to Dekimasu 10/Sep/06: Actually, to complicate things worse, I have to mention that the Real Academia de la Lengua, overseer of the Spanish Language along with the local academies, has stated that in Spanish the sounds of the letters B and V are exactly the same. So in fact (in Spanish!) "Noviembre" is exactly pronounced as "Nobiembre". This is common practice in Spain and other countries. It is apparent that the B-sound is easier and a lot more natural than the V-sound to a Spanish speaker (and to a Japanese speaker too).
 * In fact, I think most strangers to Spanish look at this rule of equal sounds unexplicable incoherent, and they are right. Most european germanic languages, starting with English and German, have a clear distinction between both sounds. I think that only those Spanish speakers that have assimilated a lot of the North American culture, or those who willingly make the distinction, actually pronounce B and V differently.


 * Still this makes no sense when trying to explain why they chose the name "Noembelu".
 * Another transliteration in katakana could be ノビエンブレ nobienbure.


 * Keep reading if you want another complicated theory. ---Anonymous 14/Sep/06

It is in classical Latin!

According to the katakana ノウェンベル nowenberu, the name sounds like Nowember as it would be spoken by an American English speaker. However, in the western european languages, like Spanish and English, the name of the months come from the Latin ones.

Thus in Latin the name is "November", but the V is NOT pronounced like today English V. In classical Latin the letters U and V were the same, their graphic use varied wildly due style whether used in written documents or carved in stone or whether used with diphthongs or not. So words like passuum, victor or november may as well be written as passvvm, uictor or nouember.

It was centuries later, during the Middle Ages that the germanic languages introduced the sound of the modern V trough the new letter W.

Therefore, the rômaji nowenberu indicates a classical Latin pronunciation of the name "November". Why did the producers do this? Who knows? They might have thought Mexico=Latin America, "they speak Latin".

Believe or not, there are numerous examples where the Japanese use Latin or Greek names with classical pronunciations. So names like "Cicero" are actually pronounced like Kikero. ---Anonymous 14/Sep/06


 * Spanish and Japanese have a lot in common, pronuniciation-wise. Danny Lilithborne 01:11, 15 September 2006 (UTC)
 * Also, IMO, "Noviembre" pronounced in Japanese would best be romanized as "nobiemubure", or maybe "nobyemubure", at least according to my own limited ability in the language. Danny Lilithborne 02:03, 15 September 2006 (UTC)
 * Note to Danny Lilithborne 15/Sep/06: Indeed these languages have a basic close pronunciation.
 * Strange is why they choose to use the letter N or kana ン to substitute the letter M or kana ム. The very name of CAPCOM is written カプコン capucon and not カプコム capucomu.

Something Chinese
I don't know chinese but I've heard that within China there are numerous dialects, so many that people from different regions may not understand their saying but only their writings. So my guess is that the producers took a pronunciation based on a dialect different from Mandarin, or maybe they decided to give a different pronunciation according to the Kanji that represent those months. The particles "yue" that are in "Jiuyue" and "Shiyue" apparently mean "moon", stressing the fact that every month there is a full moon cycle. This particle is somehow kept in the "-yu" suffix of "Xiayu" and "Jianyu", so the mistery might reside only at the begining of the words.

Direction
Shouldn't the main focus be on Juni and Juli (the main playable characters) than the ten or so non-playable characters that appear during win poses. Jonny2x4 03:39, 2 January 2007 (UTC)

Aye you have a good point there. MightyKombat 15:00, 1 July 2007 (UTC)

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BetacommandBot (talk) 21:57, 2 January 2008 (UTC)

Changed focus to Juni and Juli.
I moved the article from The Dolls (Street Fighter) to [[Juni and Juli, since the other dolls are just NPCs that are not important to the actual game. I also removed the trivia section and added appearance section which focuses on the characters from a real world perspective, something the previous incarnation of the article failed to do. I've also did the same thing with Yun (Street Fighter) and Yang (Street Fighter), merging the two of them into Yun and Yang. Jonny2x4 (talk) 21:34, 18 January 2008 (UTC)