Talk:Junior Byles

Supposed BLP violation/no evidence for drug dependency
Re. User:SqueakBox's removal twice of mention of Byles' illness - The statement was sourced from here: "Close friends say that it was this inability to earn from his music which drove him to a dependence on ganja. The dependence on the drug eventually destroyed him." This is from one of Jamaica's leading newspapers. How is mentioning his drug dependency a "BLP violation" or a "violation of the subject's stated beliefs", and how do you justify your statement that there is "no evidence" of this?--Michig (talk) 07:33, 26 June 2009 (UTC)


 * This was a journalist opining; there is no evidence that ganja creates dependency of the type opined by this journalist. How is this scurrilous accusation not a BLP violation? If you can find another source for this cannabis dependency for Byles I will take your point more seriously but when we have only one article claiming ganja dependency when there is not even any evidence that such a dependency exists from a scientific point of view we have problems. If you can find where in wikipedia we talk about cannabis dependency as a stated fact (start with Cannabis (drug)) I will again take your point for inclusion more seriously. Remember Rastas believe the continuous use of ganja is good for the human being; this is a religious belief we should respect, and Byles clearly was a Rasta, and with no evidence to the contrary we should assume he still is. He clearly has had mental illness problems and we can mention this, including the need to take drugs to control his mental issues, without too many problems if we do it sensitively but mentioning marijuana as if this were the problem is simply unacceptable. The article also calls hima crack head but we do not have any other sources to back up this claim either and without that we should not mention crack, which clearly is a highly addictive and dangerous drug. In conclusion even the article did not state that his only problem was cannabis dependency and we must not imply that is the case. Thanks, SqueakBox talk 14:46, 26 June 2009 (UTC)
 * The only opining in the article was on what led to Byles dependency, not whether or not he was dependent. Regarding cannabis dependency in general, see the Cannabis use disorders article. Byles beliefs are irrelevent here - we are talking about a medical condition, not a moral standpoint. The newspaper article does not at any point call Byles a crack head, and the wikipedia article did not in any way suggest that drug dependency was Byles' only problem. Please re-read both.--Michig (talk) 16:47, 26 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Byles beliefs are not irrelevant, that is part of why we have a blp policy. I have read the article thoroughly, please do not assume otherwise. Claiming he has a ganja dependency is a direct attack on his Rasta beliefs. You have failed to provide another source and as far as I am concerned, given our blp policy, if you fail to provide a second reference the material stays out, and if you do provide it we can discuss it further. Thanks, SqueakBox talk 16:57, 26 June 2009 (UTC)
 * I have no problem with leaving it without further source(s) out but your statement that "Claiming he has a ganja dependency is a direct attack on his Rasta beliefs" is an assumption of bad faith either on the part of the journalist or myself. If the latter, you need to stop it - I am not motivated to attack anybody's beliefs, just present the facts without censorship. Lets leave this overdramatic nonsense out of the discussion please.--Michig (talk) 17:10, 26 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Well certainly there is no bad faith implied against you, esp given your not reverting more than once but talking instead; but I could indeed argue bad faith on the part of the journalist, though at the end of the day journalists and newspapers have different standards from those of an encyclopedia with a strict BLP policy which folk like me enforce across a range of articles. I certainly think labelling a Rasta ganja dependent because they have personal issues is an attack on the Rasta faith and way of life; nobody argues Bob Marley was ganja dependent because he was a very together person, and it seems Byles has been labelled this way in one article because he had personal mental health issues and his life was a mess, and not because he smoked ganja. Keeping articles on BLP track is not over dramatic, it is at the heart of our work here building this encyclopedia. The article certainly implies crack and ganja are pretty much the same, ie drugs that cause dependency, making the article generally unsuitable to be used on wikipedia. You might consider taking this to the BLP noticeboard if you want other opinions. Thanks, SqueakBox talk 18:12, 26 June 2009 (UTC)

Laurel Aiten and the Versatiles
The suggestion that the Versatiles, as mentioned in the article, recorded with Laurel Aitken is incorrect. There was a group named the Versatiles who Aitken produced but this was done in England and they were a completely different group to the one Byles was in. 86.164.47.78 (talk) 08:05, 5 April 2016 (UTC)Tim DanceCrasher 5/4/2016

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