Talk:Junior Eurovision Song Contest 2023/Archive 1

UK
The Uk has stated their return won’t be a one off so they have to be confirmed? I don’t understand why people are removing the UK JESCFan11 (talk) 22:43, 11 December 2022 (UTC)

Page deletion
Please don't delete this page, the Junior Eurovision Song Contest 2023 is an upcoming event organized by the EBU. 2A02:A460:F642:1:8518:722D:2AB4:E6A6 (talk) 00:13, 12 December 2022 (UTC)
 * Ha! I agree. The EBU just started preparing for Junior Eurovision 2023.96.227.141.216 (talk) 00:23, 13 December 2022 (UTC)

Multiple countries added
So Spain and the UK both kinda have some sources that they are going to compete in this contest. With Spain saying they are going to participate in the upcoming years, and the UK saying that the 2022 participation isn't a one-off. Should we add both of them? Also when is there a map coming indicating who is going to participate? Ditiseuroviswiki (talk) 08:38, 15 December 2022 (UTC)

Iceland
i thought Twitter isn't actually reliable sources. Vesparaw07 (talk) 22:14, 16 December 2022 (UTC)


 * You are right, that tweet is totally not a reliable source. I removed it. (In some cases tweets can be reliable sources though; see WP:SELFPUB.) &horbar;Jochem van Hees (talk) 02:34, 17 December 2022 (UTC)

Draftspace
As per the AfD I've moved this back to draftspace, please don't move it back without addressing the relevant concerns. Thanks.  VickKiang  (talk)  22:02, 19 December 2022 (UTC)


 * why should this be a draft its complete non-sense to keep on deleting this article go find another thing to spent ur time on (a job) Luka maas (talk) 11:06, 20 December 2022 (UTC)
 * Maybe you should have taken a look at the deletion discussion if you wanted the article to be kept? There was a large red banner on the article for a week saying that this discussion was happening, and you did not leave a comment. Meanwhile several other editors did leave comments in favour of moving the article to draftspace. &horbar;Jochem van Hees (talk) 13:23, 20 December 2022 (UTC)

Norway
NRK scrapped what used to be Norway's Junior Eurovision selection process, MGPjr, due to format changes, but at the same time, said they'll see what happens in 2024. I hope NRK realizes that the European Broadcasting Union hasn't put that much pressure on the singers in recent years and that Junior Eurovision is a family-friendly show. 96.227.141.216 (talk) 23:40, 20 December 2022 (UTC)

Publication of the page.
I guess we can allow the page to be online since we have a host city? MaleLier (talk) 14:30, 3 April 2023 (UTC)

Can we please take the junior Eurovision 2023 artical out of the drafts because we have enough info about it or can we submit the draft please ItsAnthony99 (talk) 10:29, 10 April 2023 (UTC)


 * Is there some media coverage (surely there is some in French media) that isn't published by specialist eurovision song contest media? That would probably be enough to establish notability, and avoid deletion as WP:TOOSOON. I had a search and couldn't find any. Newystats (talk) 11:24, 10 April 2023 (UTC)


 * French media has mainly covered the host city announcement, see there from France Télévisions, there from 20minutes or here from France Bleu. More exist if needed. Yoyo360 (talk) 12:46, 10 April 2023 (UTC)
 * I think the fact that we know a host city by now and a list of countries stating that they will be taking part is more the enough to publish this page. Florian100100 (talk) 14:43, 10 April 2023 (UTC)
 * The main issue with the article is that there is "a large amount of non-news sourced information", which I guess makes sense but looking through the sources, they're either from Eurovoix, international ESC news sources (specifically seen in Spanish), or notes sourced from the EBU/Junior Eurovision group itself or any national broadcasters. The only non-news based sources I'd say are from the broadcaster's themselves on Twitter and other Social Media platforms (notably in the cases of Czechia, Bulgaria, and Norway). Violatie (talk) 23:59, 10 April 2023 (UTC)

Poland junior Eurovision participation
Poland have opened Subbmissons for there’d junior Eurovision selection :Sourve Fan del Jesc on insta ItsAnthony99 (talk) 14:13, 9 May 2023 (UTC)

Why is this article still in Draftspace?
I am quite unsure as to why this article is still in Draftspace when Eurovision Choir 2023, an event that doesn't even have an official date, is not in Draftspace. This article has plenty of information, a solid number of participating countries, and has both a host city/country, and a time of the contest (which Choir 2023 doesn't). Violatie (talk) 07:02, 6 May 2023 (UTC)


 * Because somebody decided to start a move war so the mainspace page had to be protected. I'm not sure if the event meets the notability requirements; there are a lot more sources now than back when the article was draftified, but they are all from the broadcasters themselves or from a few Eurovision-specific news websites. If it is notable then an admin should be contacted to unprotect the page. (By the way, Eurovision Choir 2023 has now been nominated for deletion.) &horbar;Jochem van Hees (talk) 17:53, 11 May 2023 (UTC)
 * Paging, do you still feel that the move restriction should be in place for disruptive moves? This is well past the typical time that these yearly articles enter the main-space. The issue in December was that there was no information other than WP:CRYSTAL, but now there are dozens of articles about this upcoming event. Normally an experienced editor (myself?) might be able to make the judgement call for the move to main-space outside of the draft review process (which is tailored to articles by new or unexperienced editors), but the move restriction is complicating this. Grk1011 (talk) 14:07, 12 May 2023 (UTC)

Publication of the page
Ik This sounds stupid but why’d it’s we maybe delete this page and make a new junior Eurovision 2023 artical so then it’s public an Swe have info for it ItsAnthony99 (talk) 14:11, 12 May 2023 (UTC)

Georgian National final artist announcement date
The final of Rania will be on June 10th this has been confirmed by fan_del_Jesc via Instagram after I sent a dm asking when the final is ItsAnthony99 (talk) 14:00, 19 May 2023 (UTC)

Sweden
The participation map of this edition has Sweden in yellow for "non-returning", however I was unable to find a source for this due to the large info about the nation's win at the adult contest, and there is no Eurovoix article yet on the topic either, whereas Switzerland and Slovenia both do. Could someone please share the source for Sweden confirming non-participation? Violatie (talk) 04:19, 27 May 2023 (UTC)

Non-participating countries
So basically Lithuania and Greece confirmed non-participation, they need to be coloured yellow on the participation map.

Source: https://www.escplus.es/eurovision-junior/2023/lituania-seguira-apartada-de-eurovision-junior-un-ano-mas/

Source: can't attach the source for Greece but if you want, just DM the Greek ERT Instagram account, since that's the current source. Violatie (talk) 10:26, 29 May 2023 (UTC)

Non Eurovision / Non Song contest Sources
The article has lots of eurovision sources, which don't count as independent for the purpose of establishing notability. Please help me make a list of non-eurovision sources here. Newystats (talk) 03:10, 1 June 2023 (UTC)

I count these 3 as independent sources - is that right? Is there other independent coverage?


 * France TV - ref 1 in article https://www.francetelevisions.fr/et-vous/notre-tele/eurojunior-2023-la-21eme-edition-se-deroulera-en-france-16755
 * avondhupress https://avondhupress.ie/junior-eurovision-is-back-applications-now-open
 * TVM Press https://tvmnews.mt/en/news/applications-open-for-malta-junior-eurovision-song-contest-2023/

Newystats (talk) 03:14, 1 June 2023 (UTC)

Junioreurovision.tv, the official website of the JESC, should definitely be counted as reliable source. Also, in Eurovoix articles, they often have links to sources they use in the articles. 90sveped (talk) 02:38, 4 June 2023 (UTC)
 * It's not really about the reliability of the official website, which I don't think is the issue, but more "has enough been written by independent entities about this contest to establish it as a notable event". Typically that's yes for JESC, but what's being asked here is to show this to another editor who may not be aware of the contest or its relevance. Our audience is the general public, not contest fans. Basically if the information is appealing to a wider audience, then a website/news outlet will take that information from the official site and publicize it outside of the JESC ecosystem. They would do that because they find it notable. Grk1011 (talk) 14:49, 4 June 2023 (UTC)

Removing stress
When the EBU announced the slogan a while back, they also said something about how they can work to remove stress from the contest and make the participants comfortable. The Nordic block is anti-stress, so they'll be happy to find out that the Steering Group wants to remove stress from Junior Eurovision in 2023 and beyond. I also hope they'll require children to be involved in songwriting for the first time since 2007, since children are the stars of the show. 96.227.141.216 (talk) 01:24, 5 June 2023 (UTC)

Children should be involved in songwriting
Since Junior Eurovision is a children's song competition, it'd be wiser for children to be involved in songwriting more often. In fact, I think the EBU should bring back that rule for the first time since. 96.227.141.216 (talk) 11:36, 16 June 2023 (UTC)

Deletion review
I started a deletion review for this article. Please see. &horbar;Jochem van Hees (talk) 10:50, 9 July 2023 (UTC)

Please stop declining the flipping article
Please accept the article because we have a decent amount of info all with reliable sources so please accept it ItsAnthony99 (talk) 21:54, 5 July 2023 (UTC)
 * To add to this, the admins issues with this article seem to be a bit of a joke. YouTube isn’t even used a source, and Instagram, Twitter, and perhaps Facebook are used as sources BECAUSE that’s how their national broadcasters announced information (such as selection processes for the contest), and if Junior Eurovision itself is sourced, well that should be perfectly fine since junior Eurovision is trustworthy and reports information it gets from broadcasters. Violatie (talk) 22:07, 5 July 2023 (UTC)
 * Improve the draft, as repeatedly instructed, and maybe it will be suitable for a Wikipedia article. The fact editors are resorting to using Instagram and Twitter as sources here shows the event still isn't attracting wider interest from independent, reliable sources. Sionk (talk) 22:37, 5 July 2023 (UTC)
 * From what I can tell, Instagram sources are from the broadcasters themselves opening up submissions for their selections for JESC, why would some other "independent" sources report about these submissions opening? They rarely do it for ESC, so why for JESC?
 * As for the Twitter sources, these are, once again, from the broadcasters or members of the broadcasters themselves through confirming non-participation.
 * I could be wrong but these are the only Instagram/Twitter sources I could find in the article
 * Instagram -
 * Poland (submissions for national selection opened)
 * Armenia (submissions for their selection process opened)
 * Twitter -
 * Bulgaria (BNT Twitter confirms non-participation)
 * Czechia (Head of Press for CT confirming reasons for non-participation at JESC 2023)
 * That's 4 in total (provided I did the math correctly) and 3 of those are reasonable, the one that isn't reasonable is Bulgaria's, since BNT Twitter should not count as a reliable source nor should it be used here as a confirmation of non-participation, at least from what I know.
 * I could not tell you the issue with these sources, and the fact that using Junior Eurovision TV as a source is considered "not reliable" makes this even harder for the article to be accepted and to find alternate sources that aren't entirely Eurovoix/Eurofestivales/other Eurovision based journalist sites. Violatie (talk) 00:31, 6 July 2023 (UTC)
 * The guideline on sources off social media lays out 5 conditions that have to be fulfilled to be considered reliable, and they have been met. All those social media sources are allowed. The BNT source should be removed, as there is reasonable suspicion that it's not a legitimate account. There are over 70 references from various broadcasters and independent sites about the event. It is apsurd that it's still being held in the draft space. Furthermore, the topic is deemed relevant enough to be included in 21 different projects, but somehow still being excluded on en.wiki. We even have an individual country's page (see North Macedonia in the Junior Eurovision Song Contest 2023) but this is still not considered relevant enough to be in the main space, despite this article relying on those sources and then a couple dozen more? ImStevan (talk) 23:16, 8 July 2023 (UTC)
 * The BNT account is actually from BNT, just the admin is a bit unprofessional (especially with tweets in English). It's a bit annoying that twitter doesn't do verification anymore Owlover99 (talk) 16:09, 9 July 2023 (UTC)
 * Yeah it is an actual account ran by BNT but the source is a bit fishy solely because the admin is unprofessional and they constantly contradict their English statements whenever they reply to a Bulgarian comment, which is why I think the source should be remove personally, but not everyone will agree. Violatie (talk) 04:09, 10 July 2023 (UTC)

Moving the article to mainspace
Apparently the draft can be moved to mainspace now, but does anyone actually know how to do it? Owlover99 (talk) 10:02, 10 July 2023 (UTC)

Norway's reason for non-participation
NRK confirmed its absence due to MGPjr undergoing format changes and they'll see what happens in 2024, thus not ruling out participating in all JESC editions. To be frank, I really miss Norway. 96.227.141.216 (talk) 21:40, 10 July 2023 (UTC)


 * I would also say that Norway should also be included in the "Other Countries" section of the article for that reason, they confirmed an absence more so because of the cancellation of MGPjr 2023 and would not close the door to participation in the future, and this reasoning would be similar to what is used for Monaco's absence at Eurovision 2023, because their broadcaster's air date was pushed back to after the contest, which prevented their return to the contest in 2023. Violatie (talk) 00:27, 11 July 2023 (UTC)
 * I'm glad NRK didn't close the door on participating in all future editions of JESC, cause that'd be a huge loss otherwise. 96.227.141.216 (talk) 11:11, 11 July 2023 (UTC)
 * Please remember that this place is for discussing changes to the Wikipedia article, not for discussing the Junior Eurovision Song Contest itself. There are forums elsewhere for that. &horbar;Jochem van Hees (talk) 12:12, 11 July 2023 (UTC)

Azerbaijan participation
The Azerbaijan broadcaster has subscribe to the junior Eurovision twitter account so Azerbaijan might say something next month or this month abt their participation ItsAnthony99 (talk) 08:44, 16 July 2023 (UTC)


 * If and when the Azeri broadcaster says something then the article can be updated. Until then please keep the talk page clear of speculation or gossip; Wikipedia is not a forum. Sims2aholic8 (talk) 12:44, 16 July 2023 (UTC)

Uk Participation
The United Kingdom will take part it was confronted by cbbc via an Instagram reel they posted so the uk will take part Jesc 2023 ItsAnthony99 (talk) 16:10, 1 August 2023 (UTC)

Georgia New Line Up
The Georgian broadcaster announced a new line-up for the 2023 edition. In addition to the already announced winner Anastasia Vasadze, she will be joined by Ranina's finalists Nikoloz Kharati and Oto Bazerashvili. I am amending the page according to the new information. Dominikcapuan (talk) 12:45, 12 September 2023 (UTC)


 * on the participants page on Junioreurovision.tv, it still lists Anastasia Vasadze as the main artist, but it now also says that "Anastasia will be accompanied by Nikoloz and Oto on the Junior Eurovision stage" – that sounds to me more like they will be backing singers than main artists. &horbar;Jochem van Hees (talk) 12:57, 12 September 2023 (UTC)
 * I believe that later, when the song is presented, the line up designations will take a similar turn as what happened with North Macedonia during the previous edition (Lara and Irina feat. Jovan), so that a similar situation will happen (ex. Anastatia feat. Nikoloz and Oto). IMO since I have already included the new information with the new source, I think that we will make the appropriate changes with the release of the song. Dominikcapuan (talk) 13:48, 12 September 2023 (UTC)
 * I also hope their songwriter isn't a famous Georgian musician, because, to be frank, children should come up with lyrical ideas, and JESC is a children's show. 96.227.141.216 (talk) 20:21, 16 September 2023 (UTC)

Participants Map
Why isn't Germany in green, now that we know their act? Vesparaw07 (talk) 17:02, 19 September 2023 (UTC)