Talk:Junkers Ju 52/Archive 1

Untitled
About the military usage. Ju 52 was also used as a reconaissance plane. For example in Norway 1940. For this it was quite useful, as it could be airborne 10 hours. One such had an emergency landing in Sweden, Grums, 16 april 1940. This had also some defensive weaponry of 3 machine guns. The crew of 3 had personal handguns./StefanZ, Sweden.

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I've got several good photos of the JU52 at the USAF museum at Wright Patterson in Dayton, including closeups, but I have no idea how to upload them and incorporate them into this article. Graham, sacrificial at aanet dot com dot au


 * Hello - You'll have to sign up to Wikipedia (create an account) - then you can 'upload'. - Ballista 18:45, 2 September 2006 (UTC) Ask again, if you don't understand

Civil users
Swissair never used the Ju-52! Only the Swiss air force operated the JU until 1981. Actually JU-AIR is operating with 4 machines (3 ex swiss air force, 1 CASA 352) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.79.155.245 (talk) 13:51, 15 November 2008 (UTC)

There is need of including the civilian operators of the transport version of Ju 52. I suppose that Germany (Lufthansa) and Switzerland (Swissair) are two of the countries that used it commercially. Please Expand.Francisco Valverde 08:49, 5 February 2007 (UTC)
 * I've just added three more countries, but section about civilian operators will be huge. I'll try to expand it later but any help will be welcomed. --Piotr Mikołajski 09:32, 5 February 2007 (UTC)

WikiProject Military history/Assessment/Tag & Assess 2008
Article reassessed and graded as start class. --dashiellx (talk) 17:39, 13 May 2008 (UTC)

Also used in Brazil
This aircraft was also used in Brazil.The VASP company used this aircraft, during 1930 and 1940 decades.It was a reliable aircraft.Agre22 (talk) 23:05, 9 July 2008 (UTC)agre22

If someone is interested.. Another survivor of the Ju 52
There is another Plane in perfect condition(not flying though) in a proper own small museum at German Air Force Base Wunstorf. http://www.tglw.de/ju52engl.htm

In cooperation with LTG 62 we furthermore present to you a crosscut view of aviation history with e.g. the following exhibits:

Transport aircraft Noratlas N 2501

Liasion airplane Do28

Helicopters UH-1 D and Mi 8

Troop-carrying glider DFS 230

Glider

We are looking forward to your visit on Thursdays, Saturdays, Sundays and public holidays from 10 a.m. to 6 p.m. (beginning of April until end of October). Admission is EUR 3.50 for adults, EUR 3.- per person for groups from 10 visitors, 4-18 EUR 2.- for visitors aged 14 - 18, EUR 1.- for kids aged 6-14.

Greetings!

Chris.


 * That's listed now, one of the 5 non-flyers we list. There are actually a lot of them about, with 27 in Blewett's Survivors (2007) D-list (for non-flyers "on display, not necessarily to public or in good condition").  We don't need to list them all!TSRL (talk) 20:35, 13 December 2008 (UTC)

Numbers
It's probably impossible to be sure how many were built, but
 * a) it would be good to know where the figure of 4845 came from, and
 * b) we should acknowledge that other estimates are about, for example Blewett's Survivors suggests 5415; when we don't know we should say so.TSRL (talk) 22:51, 12 December 2008 (UTC)

Questions
Three of them:


 * Should we not include the Spanish and French built versions in the versions list? They are mentioned the text and are not different enough (I think) to warrant an article of their own.  They did form about 10% of production and 3 of the eight survivors are CASAs


 * It seems a bit misleading to give the role as military transport, though that's what it mostly did. It had a significant civil role, though so why not just transport?


 * There are a lot of principle users listed; I though we usually stuck to one or two, max: if so, just Luftwaffe?

and a comment:

the article does seem a bit light on its airliner days and could do with more on its Lufthansa, Swissair etc. service. The list of Swissair aircraft at the Swissair page does not include any Ju 52s! Anyone know about this?TSRL (talk) 10:41, 13 December 2008 (UTC)

Another Q: I've seen photos of the Minesweeping, ringed J 52 and of Ju52s on skis. Photos of Ju 52s on floats seem pretty rare on the web (lots of models, I know): but does anyone know of a picture of a floatplane minesweeper?TSRL (talk) 20:25, 13 December 2008 (UTC)

Re Numbers
Hi all, I found in a book at home the same number 4845, its a German edition of a presumably English original by Salamander Books (1976).The book is called "Kampfflugzeuge" by "Buch und Zeitverlagsgesellschaft mbH,Cologne". I can find a German order Nr(9185) but no ISBN. Chiefeditor was Jain Parsons, in case someone is capable of tracing the book.

In another Book "Enzyklopädie der Flugzeuge" ISBN 3-89350-055-3 also presumably a German translation of an English orginal a "ca.4850" is given as estimated production number.

Further on there is a webcommunity devoted to the works of Hugo Junkers, it has information on nearly all products of Junkers including the Ju 52. They have an overview of all Production Numbers (Werksnummer) but i was too lazy and busy to count em all. Otherwise we might get in contact with the folks of that page and see if they can help us concerning the correct numbers. http://hugojunkers.pytalhost.com/ju_ju52_a1.htm

Greetings

C. —Preceding unsigned comment added by MaximPower (talk • contribs) 16:03, 23 December 2008 (UTC)
 * I'm lazy too :) so here is a way to count the entries under Linux - every entry has a preceding  element:


 * Rror (talk) 17:02, 23 December 2008 (UTC)

contd. Numbers
So the count did not match any estimation or numbers so far mentioned..ruling them out. I checked other books here concerning military airtransport but found nothing on the Ju 52. My last resort, I still got my grandpa which I will be visiting in a couple days who was a Ju 52 crewmember in early WW2, he also has a lot of literature on "his" planes including older publications too. I will check things there once more and might come back with some more info. I will also check for the swimmer Minesweeper version. Otherwise we still could talk to the people of the junkers comunity or, there is even a somehow comercial website about the legacy of Hugo Junkers but it is rather small and content concerning the ju 52 is nearly inexistant. This website is called the official Hugo Junkers website and the Impressum states the following: "Impressum Das Projekt Junkers.de soll umfassend über das Leben und Werk Hugo Junkers' informieren und einen Einblick geben in die Person dieses großen deutschen Erfinders und Industriellen. Mit Junkers.de möchte Bernd Junkers, ein Enkel Hugo Junkers', das Andenken seines Großvaters wahren und verbreiten." Suggesting the project is supposed to be his grandsons public memorial to his grandfather. Also the website seems to have some high quality partners such as the Deutsches Museum. www.junkers.de So getting in contact with them might also give us some further information. (MaximPower (talk) 01:58, 24 December 2008 (UTC))


 * I think one must regard the count on the Junkers site only as a fairly reliable lower limit, though surprisingly low. The piece of code will miss a few, because not all entries are ruled off but those (10, 20?) will have little impact on the difference between 1700 and 5000.  I'd guess this is because the Junkers site is incomplete.  It's the case that Blewitt says the numbers are not known, and he worries about pre-war numbers but an estimate is 5315.  He certainly tries to include Spanish and Amiot production, including those built post war. Do the two German books which give around 4850 include these? If not, the total will go to around 5400 (speaking from memory, away from sources at the moment). For now, I'd be inclined to say uncertain but c.5000.  Given thae stae of things during WW2, we may never know exactly.TSRL (talk) 09:12, 24 December 2008 (UTC)

Actually it was good that you asked whether my sources said German planes or overall production. Actually the 1976 book says: "4845 German made Ju 52, 400 were made in France as AAC 1,and 170 in Spain as CASA 352-L" This is the book for which i do not have a ISBN nr.

My other one (ISBN 3-89350-055-3) just says: "overall production of all versions is estimated to be around 4850".

I am a bit reluctant to believe in the numbers mentioned in the first book cause i can not relate it to further sources to proof the correctness of the stated numbers. The book was printed in Belgium by "Proos, Turnhout" (1977) while the original must have been published in 1976 by Salamander books. As already said before Jain Parsons is stated as chiefeditor and the people responsible for the Layout were Chris Steer and Malcom Little. Maybe someone is able to get the english/original title of the book so we can verify its sources somehow. (MaximPower (talk) 12:53, 24 December 2008 (UTC))


 * If we believe your first book for a moment, we have about 5420, only 100 more than Blewitt (perhaps should contact him?). I seem to remember the Junkers pages referred to a Hungarian production run (not counted by Rrors code) and one might might wonder about production at Junkers old external sites at Malmo and Moscow. Maybe c.5500?TSRL (talk) 22:14, 24 December 2008 (UTC)

Unfortunately we did not have any more literature concerning the Ju 52 at my grandpas, at least nothing concerning the solution to our question of the production numbers. We checked the, up to now 3 editions, of the Boelcke Squadron Chronic, nothing. I went on an internet search concerning the Salamander books printing company and found many small magazines on war planes which  usually comprise 60something pages.I could imagine my book from 1977 is a collection of the british magazines from 1976 but so unless someonce is able to track the book and the english original I wouldnt count the source. But I could also scan the page and let whomever wants to, verify it.(its in german) (MaximPower (talk) 00:31, 29 December 2008 (UTC))

hi need help to give citation that the Lebanese air force operated junkers ju 52
Hi I am Lebanese, i dont recall that the Lebanese air force ever used Junkers ju 52, need help form my fellow editors to give citation that the Lebanese air force used this air plane

Its not mentioned that junkers was used even in the Lebanese air force official website, no evidence that we used it — Preceding unsigned comment added by Karim Rustof (talk • contribs) 10:59, 25 November 2012 (UTC)
 * While a cite is needed - probably in the Operators sub article (which does not mention Lebanon), it is possible that any Lebanese aircraft might be civil rather than military - possibly ex-French?Nigel Ish (talk) 11:37, 25 November 2012 (UTC)
 * I am sure that Air Liban started with three ex French Air Force or possibly Air France Toucans. Refer http://aerobernie.ae.funpic.de/Air%20Liban.html propable more refs if we search on registrations LR-AAC, LR-AAI or LR-AAJ. MilborneOne (talk) 12:42, 25 November 2012 (UTC)

Hi Thank you for your feed back
May be Junker Ju 52 was used by vich Leabanone

Wing engines
The two wing engines appear to angle slightly outward from the centerline of the fuselage. I'm not aware of this feature appearing on any other aircraft. Is there an explanation? Sca (talk) 23:15, 1 March 2014 (UTC)


 * Not unusual in the 20s and 30s, if one engine is lost the good engine will help pull the aircraft straighter - if they are in line of flight as is now common the good engine often has to be throttled back as it will cause excessive yaw. NiD.29 (talk) 07:58, 2 March 2014 (UTC)


 * Another plane with a slight toe-out on the engines is the Burnelli UB-14. Jan olieslagers (talk) 09:45, 2 March 2014 (UTC)
 * Interesting. On the JU 52 they appear to be almost at right angles to the leading edge of the tapered wings. Sca (talk) 19:18, 2 March 2014 (UTC)
 * Something similar seems to have happened on the Short Sunderland, see http://uboat.net/allies/aircraft/sunderland.htm Jan olieslagers (talk) 19:48, 2 March 2014 (UTC)
 * The Sunderland was an unusual case - it was originally designed to be fore and aft but a honking great gun was removed from the nose late in the design phase and the resulting c of g shift was fixed by rotating the wings back - without changing the engine nacelles. The final member of the Sunderland family, the Short Solent had this rectified with the engines re-aligned in its final variant with a corresponding improvement in performace - wartime priorities prevented it from being changed earlier.[[User:NiD.29|

]] (talk) 03:14, 5 March 2014 (UTC)


 * The angling of engines is referred-to as 'toe-out' when angled in the way of the Ju52/3m and Sunderland, and as 'toe-in' for the opposite angles. The term refers to the engine thrust line and is also applied to angled jet engine nozzles such as on the Comet/Nimrod. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 95.150.11.194 (talk) 15:52, 25 June 2016 (UTC)


 * The explanation given for the Sunderland's engine toe-out seems implausible (the wings were angled back during design modification angling the nacelles with it) because the inboard and outboard nacelles are at two different toe-out angles, the outboard being greater. There is only one reason for toe-out and that is engine-out yaw reduction.  As far as the statement about toe-out reducing/eliminating the need for throttling back the good engine in an engine out scenario, more accurately it simply means less trim is required.  It will reduce the amount of rudder required allowing for a smoother engine-out transition for the pilot especially if manual controls are used and time is required to set the trim.  Anticipated engine reliability (or lack thereof) is what drove the toe-out feature.  By the time of the Solent the designers were much more confident of engine reliability.  Modern jet airliners actually have engine toe-in to line up jet thrust with local airflow for less drag.   JetMec (talk) 05:23, 1 October 2016 (UTC)


 * Both the Ju52/3m and the Sunderland were designed before fully-feathering propellers were generally available, and so performance and handling with an engine out may have been the reason. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 95.150.18.150 (talk) 10:54, 13 November 2016 (UTC)


 * NiD.29 is correct Re; the Sunderland. The original design had a Vickers 37mm cannon in the nose but this was replaced by a lighter FN.11 gun turret, and a heavier FN.13 four-gun turret added at the tail, which moved the centre of gravity rearwards, and to offset this the wings were swept-back by 4.5-degrees. The nacelles were left unchanged.

Additional Information - production and load capacity
I should like to add the following information, perhaps at the end of the development section or before the "Heavy losses in combat section"? The source is "German Air Force Air Lift Operations", by GeneralMajor Fritz Morzik, USAF Historical Division, 1961. Perhaps this section could start a new section called "World War II" with the "Heavy Losses in Combat" section being made into a sub-title?

While in use by the Deutsche Lufthansa the Ju-52 had proved to be an extremely reliable passenger airplane and was therefore adopted by the Luftwaffe as a standard aircraft model. In 1938, the 7th Air Division had five air transport groups with 250 Ju 52s’. The Luftwaffe had 552 Ju 52s at the start of World War II. Even though it was built in great numbers, the Ju.52 was technically obsolete. Between 1939 and 1944, 2.804 Ju-52s were delivered to the Luftwaffe (1939: 145; 1940: 388; 1941: 502; 1942:503; 1943:887; and 1944:379). The production of Ju- 52’s continued until approximately the summer of 1944 and when the war came to an end there were still 100-200 of them available.

The Ju.52 could carry eighteen fully equipped soldiers, or twelve stretchers when used as an air ambulance. Transported material was loaded and unloaded through side doors by means of a ramp. Air dropped supplies were jettisoned through two double chutes; supply containers were dropped by parachute through the bomb-bay doors, and paratroopers jumped through the side doors. Half-track motorcycles (kettenkraftrad) and parachute troops' supply packs were secured under the fuselage at the bay exits and were dropped with four parachutes. A tow coupling was built into the tail-skid for use in towing freight gliders. The Ju 52 could tow up to two DFS-30 gliders.Sitalkes (talk) 23:39, 12 January 2015 (UTC)

After the words "Thus, almost an entire year's production was lost in the Netherlands". I should like to add: After the campaign in the West, the air transport units were brought up to their pre-Holland strength and were assembled at airfields in the Lyon, Lille, and Arras areas in August 1940. (ref: Page 50, "German Air Force Air Lift Operations", by GeneralMajor Fritz Morzik, USAF Historical Division, 1961). Probably this was done using new and repaired aircraft augmented by other transport planes like the FW-200 Condor and the Ju 90. Sitalkes (talk) 03:33, 13 January 2015 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Sitalkes (talk • contribs) 23:42, 12 January 2015 (UTC)

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Greater Romania Campaign over Stalingrad 1941-1943 Ju-52
Greater Romania Campaign over Stalingrad 1941-1943 .......................

Preparations

Source, Ministerul Fortelor Aerului R56 02478 BIBLOTECA 11.834/4, hence ,public domain,Library of Air Ministry of Romania, books?Aristiderazu (talk) 10:52, 9 February 2018 (UTC)Aristiderazu Romanian Aeronautic in 1935-1941

Chief of Romanian Air Ministry of Air Secretaey was named Engineer Nicolae Caranfil.These proposes a daring program of reorganising of the Aeronautics which would suite the needs and real financial possibilities of Greater Romania.Before him Radu Irimescu .The new plan was to have a total of 83 Squadrons,aviation and 41 companies of aero-stations letter of Engineer Caranfil to the Prime Minister at the time .. MR.Prime Minister Following the discussions we had with Mr.General Paul Angelescu, Minister of National Defence , at yor Mr.home , in the day of 24th of December 1936, seeing once more that the connectionwhich must therefore exist between leaders of departments of National Defence and of Air thus, and Navy cannot take place , due to the permanent animozity which Gral Paul Angelescu had always towards me , and of which cause I have never seen and do not see a way of acomplishing my urgent program of organising the Aeronautics and Navy,our underlyning , I have the honor to present to zou Sir my resignation from Government.

With this occassion I thank you ,Mr.Prime Minister, for the conqur which zou Sir have always given to me , in all circumstances and please have my deepest gratitude..signed .Eng.N.Caramfil ............... 40 Bristol Blenheim and 12 Hawker Hurricanes(for dog fighting role), have been aquired by Romanian Air Ministry from Great Brittain, of which 37 have landed safely in Bucharest .In 1941 in Romania Campaign to Stalingrad ,these were used for long ricconaisance purpose ,equiped with two Bristol Mercury engine, each, of 825 Hp, speed 418Km/h, ceilling 8130mAristiderazu (talk) 16:20, 8 February 2018 (UTC)Aristiderazu .The Huricannes have all landed safely in Bucharest.

In those political circumstances ,initially, the British have refused to aacept the order by Romanian State , oficially .Has though interveened unoficially ,Commandor.Av.Nicolau Constantin , Aero -attache to London then,1939, .Through connections with certain pollitical factours , he succeeds tochange the decission of the British Government.The matter have been discussed in the Room of Communes , too.Finally has been approved the delivery towards Romania of a number of 40 Bristol Blenheim which have arrived in the country in three batches .The romanian pilots have left for England in two groups .,the first group at 17th of August 1939, made up of ten flying pilots crews under the command of Cpt.Cdor.av.Georgescu Laurentiu .The second group under the command of Cpt.Cdor.av.Alecu Demetrescu leaves at 6th of September 1939. At 14th of September 1939, a formation of fourteen planes , having as head of formation Lt.Cdor.av.Cristescu P.Ioan have left towards the country on the intinerary ..Oxford -Bristol-Caen-Nantes Bordeaux.At 15th of September they have flown from Bordeaux to Marseille ,and at 16th of September they have arrived at Milano.At 17th of September with an escale at Belgrad, have arrived at Bukarest only 13 planes .Number 4.plane with the crew made out of Lt.av.Nicolae Mirescu and maister/master Petre Todica , due to a torrential rain and to a visibility almost nulle , enter in lossing of speed when landing .They crush to the edge of Bordeaux Aerodrome.The plane goes on fire , and the crew sadly perish in flames. The other formation ,led by Cpt.Cdor .av.Alecu Demetrescu, have left England at 27th of September with direction Bordeaux , from where on the same intinerary , on which have flown the precedent batch , have arrived in Bucharest/Bukarest/Bucuresti at 10th of October 1939, with an escale at Milano of nine days. The last formations of planes leaves England at 15th of October 1939, under the command of Capt .Cdor.avLaurentiu Georgescu and arrives into the country at 18th of November 1939, in extremly difficult atmospheric conditions. At take off on Bordeaux erodrome, the plane piloted by Cpt.av.Dumitru Popescu -Pufi is accidented .Luckily the pilot escapes unharmed. In the last stage of flight of the said formation, the number 14 plane , piloted bz Adj.Chief av.Vasile Mezin , having colleague of flight Maestru/Master Enache, due to the very dense fogg, engages and crushes at Orsova .The crew perish in Danube River waters. Have arrived in the country 37 Bristol-Blenheim, instead of 40. At take off on Bordeaux erodrome, the plane piloted by Cpt.av.Dumitru Popescu -Pufi is accidented .Luckily the pilot escapes unharmed. In the last stage of flight of the said formation, the number 14 plane , piloted bz Adj.Chief av.Vasile Mezin , having colleague of flight Maestru/Master Enache, due to the very dense fogg, engages and crushes at Orsova .The crew perish in Danube River waters. Have arrived in the country 37 Bristol-Blenheim, instead of 40. From Germany have beenaquired *Romanian petrol being the exchange coin* starting with 1940, 30 Heinkel 112*dog-fighting* planes , 32 twin engined Heinkel 111 planes *bombers* , 20 planes Ju 87 ,,Stukas,, *dive bombing role* , 50 Messerschmitt 109 E3 and E7*dog-fighting role* As to the plan, from France have been aquired, special autovehicles for airfields and equipment, from Germany heavy tonaje transport trucks Henschel , from Switzerland 20mm Oerrlikon cannons,the necessary of ammunition for airplanes and wirst watches ,necessary for the navigant personel .From United States autotrucks Ford Marmon with double tracktion , destined to the units of anty air defence .From Italy ,silk for parashutes , Beretta hand pistols for the navigant personell , tractors and buldozers for the Aero Pioneers Regiment and shit /foil for the campaign tents. Obtaining of these materials was beginning to come more and more difficult after 1st of September 1939 ,once the second part of the Mondial War started, the situation became critical. England,Belgium,Holland ,France have definitivelly stoped the shipments towards the Greater Romania,Germany and Italy have drastically reduced them.The Romanian Aeronautical Industry was in great difficulty of primery matters and semifabricated ones, hence raw materials .The situation had become thus critical. With the order nr.11349 from23rd of March 1940, the General Staff of Romanian Army ,asks to the Romanian Ministry of Air and Navy to pass at the latest 1st of April 1941, to the integral execution of hzpotesis 32.Thus 84 different Squadrons with a total of 834 planes mono and twin engined within the operative units , to which were added 338 reserve airplanes and 350 airplanes for interior for school and training of the navigant personell.Thus , a total of 1517 aiplanes. The value of 32nd Hzpotesis rose up to 32 milliards Lei, at 1938 value,.

Material Staff 1941 For long range reconaisance and light bombardment,,Bristol Blenheim,Bristol-Mercury twin engined ,825Hp,418km/h,ceilling 8310m, Potez 63, equiped with Gnome-Rhone 14M of 670Hp,425km/h,ceilling 8500m. For observation, IAR 38 , BMW,132-700Hp,220Km/h and IAR 39, equiped with IAR K/14 engine of 870Hp,280km/h,ceilling 7000m.Also in this category were included SET 7K ,with an IAR K7-120 of 420Hp,250km/h. , For bombing role Savoia Marchetti S79b.which were aso produced under license in Romaniawhich ,twin engined Gnome Rhone K14 and 1000 A and starting with July 1941 also Savoia Marchetti 79 B manufactured at IAR Brasov after the Italian license ,modified at IAR Power Plant, equiped with 2 Junkers 211 E and 211F of 1200Hp engine each and 1350 Hp , 3350Km/h,ceilling 8000m,PZL planes P-37B Los,manufactured in Poland , equiped with two engines Bristol Pegasus XII and Bristol Pegasus XX of 918Hp,440km/h,ceilling 6000m. The planes IAR 81 ,equiped with IAR K 14-1000A, of 1000Hp,500km/h,used for divebombing role ,, Junkers Ju 87 Stukas ,Junkers Jumo 211 D.a. of 1200Hp for dive bombing role ,385Km/h,ceilling 8000m,,planes Heinkel He 111 ,Karas and Bloch. For dog-fight IAR 80 ,IAR K 14 engine ,510km/h,,Messerschmitt Bf 109E,Daimler-Benz,1250Hp,520Km/h,ceilling 10500m,, planes PZL P 11 ,engine IAR K 9,600Hp,380Km/h,9000m,,PZL P24 planes ,engine IAR K 14 ,870Hp,430km/h,9500m,,planes Hawker Hurricane, Rolls -Royce ,1200Hp,500Km/h,11900m,planes Heinkel 112 ,400Km/h,10500m. For Hydroaviation Savoia Marchetti S 62 bis, with one engine I.F.Asso 800Hp,225Km/h and Kant Z 501, engine Asso I.F.833 Hp,265Km/h planes. For transport planes Junkers 34, the three engined Junkers 52 ,Potez 56, Lockheed 14 and Lockheed 10. For connection and school planes Fleet F-10G.ICAR,Nardi-PWS,ST,Klemm K1 35D and Me 108 Taifun. Hence in 1941 ,there were 50 squadrons/Escadrile to 80 ...The 32 Plan

see also Ju-34

.................. see also Ju-34 Aristiderazu (talk) 17:25, 11 February 2018 (UTC)Aristiderazu

Surviving Aircraft
There is a JU-52/1m (modified from a JU-52/3m) at the Royal Aviation Museum of Western Canada, but it is not shown in the Surviving Aircraft section. Why not?


 * Because wikipedia is a work in progress so nobody has got around to it yet, no reason if you have a reliable source why you cant add it yourself. MilborneOne (talk) 17:22, 6 August 2018 (UTC)