Talk:Just Like a Woman/GA1

GA Review
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Reviewer: K. Peake (talk · contribs) 09:32, 15 January 2023 (UTC)

This will run over the course of two days. --K. Peake 09:32, 15 January 2023 (UTC)

Infobox and lead

 * Why is August 18 listed as the release date in the infobox when only August is sourced?
 * Added date into the body text. BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 16:45, 16 January 2023 (UTC)


 * Genres should be sourced directly in the body, rather than having refs in the infobox
 * Removed. Genre descriptions for songs on Blonde on Blonde are really inconsistent, so I'd rather leave it blank. (see Talk:Rainy_Day_Women_♯12_%26_35 for variation in another track's descriptions). BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 21:12, 16 January 2023 (UTC)


 * "first released on his seventh studio album," → "from his seventh studio album," and place the release year in brackets instead
 * "It was written by Dylan and" → "The song was written by Dylan and"
 * Amended per the two points above. BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 16:45, 16 January 2023 (UTC)


 * The lead feels a bit out of order; writing/recording detail should be after the producer and songwriter, then release
 * Amended. BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 17:06, 17 January 2023 (UTC)


 * Move the commercial info to the end of the second para and add more, as the song charted in multiple countries
 * "some critics have suggested" start a new sentence here to avoid a run-on
 * "allegedly wrote "Just Like a Woman" on" → "allegedly wrote it on"
 * Avoid the world claim per WP:CLAIM
 * "Dylan recorded the track" → "Dylan recorded the song" and capitalize the word Studio
 * Amended per the five points above. BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 16:45, 16 January 2023 (UTC)


 * "frequent collaborator Al Kooper along with" → "frequent collaborator Al Kooper, alongside" removing the guitarists introduction from the lead, but where are these two sourced as the ones that join them?
 * I've removed these from the lead, no real reason to single out Kooper or two of the guitarists. BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 16:45, 16 January 2023 (UTC)


 * "Dylan's version of the song at number 232" → "Dylan's version at number 232"
 * "and became a hit across Europe," → "and was a hit across Europe,"
 * Amended per the two points above. BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 16:45, 16 January 2023 (UTC)


 * "It received good reviews" → "The song received positive reviews" remove the upon release part and add what was praised
 * Amended. BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 17:06, 17 January 2023 (UTC)

Background and recording

 * The source on the img text offers no mention of organ
 * Amended the caption and source.


 * I don't think any of the albums need commas around them
 * Amended. BennyOnTheLoose (talk)


 * "Dylan's producer, Bob Johnston suggested" → "Dylan's producer Bob Johnston suggested"
 * "his journey to Nashville, and" → "his journey to Nashville and"
 * Pipe master take to Mastering (audio)
 * Amended per the three points above. BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 17:18, 16 January 2023 (UTC)


 * Pipe Columbia Studio to Quonset Hut Studio and why is Studio B not mentioned?
 * Turns out it was Studio A, not the Quonset Hut Studio. I added a reference. BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 17:30, 17 January 2023 (UTC)


 * "Seven complete takes and multiple" → "Seven complete takes, and multiple"
 * You are using the wrong AllMusic ref for the release date; cite the album's one instead
 * Amended the ref. BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 17:18, 16 January 2023 (UTC)


 * Where does he write it was arguably the most commercial track?
 * Hmm, on reflection that's not a good summary of "There was a time, specifically 1966, when a song like this ... could crack the Top 40. It is certainly one of the most, if not the most, radio-friendly track on the masterful double record". Amended. BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 17:18, 16 January 2023 (UTC)


 * Wikilink bass guitar
 * "Kooper on organ and" → "Kooper on organ, and" with the pipe
 * Amended. BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 17:18, 16 January 2023 (UTC)


 * [4][12][13] why is [4] here when it does not provide any of the info?
 * Removed as redundant. BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 17:18, 16 January 2023 (UTC)


 * "unusually for Dylan," → "unusually for him,"
 * "just can't fit"." → ""just can't fit."" per MOS:QUOTE on full sentences
 * Amended per the two points above. BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 17:18, 16 January 2023 (UTC)

Composition and lyrical interpretation

 * Pipe compilation to Compilation album and remove the comma after it
 * Avoid the word claim per WP:CLAIM
 * "at work on this song" → "at work on the song"
 * "that Dylan improvised the lyrics in the studio, by" → "that he improvised the lyrics in the studio by"
 * "This exploration of" → "Dylan's exploration of" per this being a new para
 * "or some similar" → "or a similar" and is debutante really an appropriate term?
 * Amended. I suspect that Heylin's use of the word was a reference to the debutante in "Stuck Inside of Mobile with the Memphis Blues Again" - he often uses terms or phrases from Dylan's songs in his books. BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 15:51, 17 January 2023 (UTC)


 * "Discussing whether the biographical basis of this song is important," → "Discussing whether the biographical basis is important,"
 * Removed as the source was not suitable, per WP:RSSM. BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 15:51, 17 January 2023 (UTC)


 * "The target of the song is" → "The subject of the song is"
 * "in Dylan's song." → "in "Just Like a Woman"."
 * All done. BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 15:51, 17 January 2023 (UTC)

Alleged sexism

 * Again, the ref on the img text does not back up the info
 * Removed it as there is no free to use rationale covering the US, as far as I can see). BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 17:52, 16 January 2023 (UTC)


 * Remove overly obvious wikilink on lyrics
 * Done. BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 15:51, 17 January 2023 (UTC)


 * Should the newspaper be referred to as The New York Times or was the name different back in 1971?
 * Shelton has "...wrote in The New York Times..." Looks from The New York Times like this has been the title since 1896. BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 17:52, 16 January 2023 (UTC)


 * "of sexist slurs," and" → "of sexist slurs", and" per MOS:QUOTE
 * Too much quoting from the AllMusic review is overkill; try to summarize this a bit more
 * I trimmed rather than summarized. BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 17:52, 16 January 2023 (UTC)


 * "Janovitz concludes by" → "Janovitz concluded by"
 * Amended. BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 17:52, 16 January 2023 (UTC)

Critical reception

 * "Asbury Park Press columnist" → "The Asbury Park Press columnist"
 * Add a space before Billboard and mention it was a reviewer of the magazine
 * Either add the staff or a writer of before Cash Box
 * "believes that Dylan" → "believed that Dylan" for consistent tense
 * "The Sun-Herald's reviewer dismissed" → "The Sun-Herald's reviewer dismissed" with the wikilink
 * Mention that Craig McGregor is from The Sydney Morning Herald with the wikilink
 * "Arizona Republic reviewer Troy Irvine" → "The Arizona Republic reviewer Troy Irvine" with the wikilink
 * "likewise, called it" → "likewise, called the song"
 * "enough to compensate"." → "enough to compensate."" per MOS:QUOTE
 * "Gray highlights the lyric" → "Gray highlights the lines"
 * "He does, however, praise" → "He did, however, praise"
 * All done. BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 16:03, 17 January 2023 (UTC)

Live versions and later releases

 * First para looks good!
 * Remove pipe on compilations
 * Maybe add the release years of the compilations in brackets?
 * "of that album." → "of the album."
 * Where are the live recordings sourced?
 * Amended. BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 16:16, 17 January 2023 (UTC)


 * "and the Deluxe Edition of" → "and the deluxe edition of" per unnecessary capitalization
 * Removed this. BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 16:16, 17 January 2023 (UTC)


 * "were released in the boxed set" → "were released in the box set" but this release is not sourced
 * Removed this. BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 16:16, 17 January 2023 (UTC)


 * "and Ravi Shankar's Concert for Bangladesh" → "and Ravi Shankar's The Concert for Bangladesh" with the wikilink


 * All addressed. BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 16:16, 17 January 2023 (UTC)

Credits and personnel

 * Good

Manfred Mann version

 * The genres mentioned in the infobox are not sourced
 * Removed. I struggled to find sources, and not having one would be consistent with what I suggest for the Dylan version infobox. BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 21:12, 16 January 2023 (UTC)


 * Remove overly obvious wikilink on London
 * Removed. BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 21:12, 16 January 2023 (UTC)

Background and recording

 * "Mike Hugg and Tom McGuinness," → "Mike Hugg, and Tom McGuinness," on the img text, also shouldn't they be identified as a group?
 * The Mann-Hugg Blues Brothers → the Mann-Hugg Blues Brothers per MOS:THEMUSIC
 * "had started disintegrating." → "had started to break up."
 * "the group had begun" → "Manfred Mann had begun"
 * "early 1966 which left Jones unable to perform, the group hired" → "early 1966, which left Jones unable to perform, Manfred Mann hired"
 * "in June of that year, leaving the rest of the band" → "in June 1966, leaving the other members"
 * "also leaving the group" → "also leaving Manfred Mann"
 * "d'Abo who had recently quit his band accepted" → "d'Abo, who had recently quit his band, accepted"
 * Mention what year June was in since this is a new para
 * "the band signed a contract" → "the group signed a contract"
 * "with the group staying on that label" → "with them staying on the label"
 * "who had produced" → "who had produced for"
 * "the Who and David Bowie," → "the Who, and David Bowie,"
 * "that the Manfreds were fans" → "that the members were fans"
 * "The band had scored a hit" → "The group had scored a hit"
 * Remove commas around Kenneth Pitt
 * "much of the Manfreds'" → "much of their"
 * All addressed. BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 16:28, 17 January 2023 (UTC)

Release and reception

 * "as the group's debut single on that label" → "as Manfred Mann's debut single on their label"
 * "over who's version" → "over whose version"
 * "Bob Dylan crashed his motorcycle," → "Dylan crashed his motorcycle,"
 * "The Manfreds version was backed by" → "Manfred Mann's version was backed by"
 * Introduce who Manfred Mann is to avoid confusion with the group as a whole
 * Avoid the world claimed per WP:CLAIM
 * "at number ten" → "at number 10" per MOS:NUM
 * "It spent ten weeks on the chart." → "The song spent 10 weeks on the Record Retailer chart."
 * "to Bruce Eder of AllMusic meant that Manfreds" → "to Bruce Eder of AllMusic, meant that the other version's" but is this really the link?
 * Yes, but the quote wasn't exact. Amended, and added Eder as the author in the citation. BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 16:58, 17 January 2023 (UTC)


 * "In Disc and Music Echo, it reached number nine," → "It reached number nine in Disc and Music Echo,"
 * Pipe New Musical Express to NME
 * "Across Europe it was" → "Across Europe, the version was" but you need a source for this
 * Changed. BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 16:58, 17 January 2023 (UTC)


 * "reviewed both Manfred Mann's and Jonathan King's version, but preferred the Manfreds version," → "reviewed both Manfred Mann's and King's versions, but preferred the former,"
 * "which she attributed to" → "She attributed this to"
 * "she believed it would do better in the charts if Paul Jones" → "she believed the song would do better in the charts if Jones"
 * "a "fine-tempoed arrangement."" → "a "fine-tempoed arrangement"." per MOS:QUOTE
 * Add something like a writer or reviewer for Billboard and Cash Box
 * "and predicted it to reach the" → "and predicted to reach the"
 * Amended per the points above. BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 16:58, 17 January 2023 (UTC)

Manfred Mann version

 * See MOS:TABLECAPTION
 * I think Lyons Maid is linked to something of the same name that is irrelevant
 * Judging by the online images I found when searching, that brand was actually the sponsor of those charts. BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 17:25, 16 January 2023 (UTC)


 * Why so many UK charts?
 * As far as I can tell, all the UK charts meet the criteria in WP:CHARTS. (See, e.g. UK Singles Chart). BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 21:00, 16 January 2023 (UTC)


 * Pipe New Musical Express to NME
 * Done. BennyOnTheLoose (talk)


 * Add Billboard and Cashbox in brackets instead
 * Done. BennyOnTheLoose (talk)

I removed the NZ chart - see Talk:Rainy_Day_Women_%E2%99%AF12_%26_35 for some discussion on that one. BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 18:03, 16 January 2023 (UTC)

Bob Dylan version

 * Shouldn't this be first since he is the original performer?
 * Moved, to follow order in the article, although the Manfred Mann single was issued before Dylan's single. BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 20:53, 16 January 2023 (UTC)


 * See MOS:TABLECAPTION
 * Amended. BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 20:53, 16 January 2023 (UTC)


 * Add Cashbox in brackets instead
 * Done. BennyOnTheLoose (talk)

Final comments and verdict

 * until all of the issues are fixed! --K. Peake 12:52, 16 January 2023 (UTC)
 * Many thanks for the thorough review, . I've replied to your comments above; let me know what else needs to be done. Regards, BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 17:31, 17 January 2023 (UTC)
 * ✅ now, I copyedited some of the sloppy areas but your hard work definitely reached the mark! --K. Peake 20:36, 17 January 2023 (UTC)