Talk:Justice League (Smallville)

Costume image
There is a disagreement over the fair use of the compare/contrast image for the character costumes. I think this should be discussed, based on the case-by-case basis identified by WP:NONFREE. I have left request for comments at WP:COMICS, WP:TV, WP:NONFREE, and WP:FUC. To save space, I'll link to my original post to the editor who first removed the image (first post), as well as my second response (second response), and direct eyes to the section in particular (Justice League (Smallville)). My opinion is that there is critical commentary on the illustration of the costumes for the show, and that there was critical commentary on how they were altered from their comic book counterparts. Given that basic descriptions of such changes can be difficult to imagine, I feel it is appropriate to illustrate those changes (based on what the reliable sources say, and not personal identifications) for the reader. I chose the "gallery" of images (even those it's a single image file), because it is easier to illustrate it than go through multiple, individual images.  BIGNOLE     (Contact me)  19:06, 10 September 2009 (UTC)
 * I agree that it's a thing that is hard to imagine, and requires an illustration. But, is it minimal?  Could you use something like this or this?  Basically using the smallest number of group shots, since each image is considered another use. - Peregrine Fisher (talk) (contribs) 01:19, 11 September 2009 (UTC)
 * The first might be fine, but Clark's "costume" isn't really discussed on the page primarily because he has his own page and also because he doesn't really have a "costume" at this point. The second is good, but it leaves out Bart and Cyborg, and Cyborg probably has the most significant change from any of them. That was kind of why I resorted to using the individual promo shots from the companion books.   BIGNOLE     (Contact me)  01:58, 11 September 2009 (UTC)
 * I agree that your way looks best, it just uses what we would classify as 10 non-free images. Using the shot with three of them would reduce it to 8, for instance.  I think using a cropped version of the first without Clark might count as 1, although I'm not sure.  Cyborg may need two non-free images, since he wasn't in the comics JLA.  You can probably group the GA and BC comics images pretty easily, since their lovers in the comics, I think.    I bet with some clever google searching, it could be done with 4-6 total non-free images. - Peregrine Fisher (talk) (contribs) 02:20, 11 September 2009 (UTC)
 * I like some of those images, but the only problem that I can foresee is that they would look pretty weird in a compare/contrast image setup. I understand the issue with having 10 N-F images, but the only reason I did it that was because it provided the best comparison images, while at the same time making everything appear neater and similar across the board. It's just a very tricky setup for trying to illustrate the costumes, while at the same time keeping in-line with the policy.   BIGNOLE     (Contact me)  02:25, 11 September 2009 (UTC)
 * The non-free policy frequently makes these things tricky. I haven't read this article, so I don't know what would be best.  Maybe you can refactor some text to match an image, I don't know.  Or a tall gallery on the right side.  Or something.  I would just say that if I was doing a GA review, I'd ask for as much reduction as you can do.  At FA, I think this article might pick up a few quick opposes based on the images.  If you really want feedback, you could ask at NONFREE, but I'm not always a big fan of their "input". - Peregrine Fisher (talk) (contribs) 03:00, 11 September 2009 (UTC)
 * I've already requested comments there. I posted there, FUC, TV and COMICS. NONFREE says that galleries are generally a no-no, but if you can justify them then they are ok; it's my opinion that this is one of the exceptions to the rule on galleries. Obviously 10 N-F images is a lot, I admit that, but I think in this case "10" is merely a number that isn't reflective of what the image actually entails in value. IMO, the benefits outweigh the costs. I mean, I personally think the compare/contrast is important, but at the very least I can live without the comic versions (which would ultimately cut the gallery down to just 5 images).   BIGNOLE     (Contact me)  03:28, 11 September 2009 (UTC)
 * If you don't need the comic images, then doesn't the infobox cover most of it? - Peregrine Fisher (talk) (contribs) 03:46, 11 September 2009 (UTC)
 * It's still missing Black Canary, has Clark when it doesn't need it, plus the fact that the screenshot isn't as clear as the promotional shots of each individual. Trust me, I'd rather keep the comic images, since at least half of the costume section talks about how Cranstoun utilized the comics as inspiration.   BIGNOLE     (Contact me)  03:56, 11 September 2009 (UTC)
 * Well, I would say use as many group shots as you can. We should probably wait to see what others say, as well.  Finally, I'd like to know if cropping different parts of one non-free image is still one use.  If it is, that's probably the easiest way out. - Peregrine Fisher (talk) (contribs) 04:08, 11 September 2009 (UTC)

Given that each of the characters on their character page has their own set of images to compare the different versions, the "new" images here are not helpful towards meeting NFC#3a. That said, at least one comparison on this page seems completely fair since (as best I can tell) the rationale behind the costume changes isn't discussed in any great detail on the individual character pages. --M ASEM (t) 12:49, 11 September 2009 (UTC)


 * When you say "each of the characters", are you referring to each of the comic versions of the characters? I'm kind of lost. Are you in support of the image, or in support of a single character having a comparison?   BIGNOLE     (Contact me)  13:44, 11 September 2009 (UTC)

Arbitrary Break
I would agree with User:Masem that a group is a better relection of minmal use, and the removal of the comics images would help to move towards more minimal-use, as comic character images in greater detail can be found on each characters individual article. - Sharp962 (talk) 14:42, 11 September 2009 (UTC).


 * So, you're saying just limit the image to that of the Smallville characters (i.e. 10 NF images become 5), and just let the readers go to the respective comic articles to see what the original incarnations look like?   BIGNOLE     (Contact me)  17:04, 11 September 2009 (UTC)


 * Maybe I'm missing something, but at that point, the infobox image seems to cover four of them. - Peregrine Fisher (talk) (contribs) 17:11, 11 September 2009 (UTC)


 * But it's not a very detailed look at the costumes.   BIGNOLE     (Contact me)  17:22, 11 September 2009 (UTC)


 * I see. - Peregrine Fisher (talk) (contribs) 17:24, 11 September 2009 (UTC)


 * At least, when it's blown up it becomes distorted. It's always easier to shrink and preserve the image than it is to blow up and preserve it. I think the promo shots of them individually are much better lit for being able to see the costumes. IDK, that's just my perception, and probably computer screen. :D   BIGNOLE     (Contact me)  17:36, 11 September 2009 (UTC)


 * If there is significant critical commentary on the outfits, then one comparison shot would be reasonable, but on the other hand most of these characters have their own articles as well - mind you, most of those are rife with non-free image overuse as well. Black Kite 16:17, 12 September 2009 (UTC)


 * That was kind of what Sharp and Masem were stating (as far as I can see), is that an illustration of the current costumes is all that is needed, and just let the reader look at the individual comic pages for the comic versions.   BIGNOLE     (Contact me)  17:06, 12 September 2009 (UTC)
 * For what it's worth. I believe the box image and one of Canary would be the best reflection of minimal use.-Sharp962 (talk) 02:00, 14 September 2009 (UTC).
 * Sigh...whatever. I'm tired of debating it. I've changed the image.   BIGNOLE     (Contact me)  03:10, 14 September 2009 (UTC)

What about the other members?
This is a detailed article, and i thought that since There's other members, that perhaps they should have a mention.

From those with only one appearance like the Wonder Twins- to those with more- like Speedy, or Zatanna(who had multiple appearances, and was part of those targeted as the Justice League later on)

But surely we can mention some of the others (IE: Zatanna appeared a lot in the last 3 seasons) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 132.170.113.227 (talk) 04:39, 27 September 2011 (UTC)


 * Those other characters are never shown to be active members of the team. The Wonder Twins are not even initiated into the team. No one knows the extent of Speedy's involvement other than being trained by Oliver. Zatana appeared a total of 2 times, and has been mentioned only a couple of times, and it's never stated that she is an active member of the team. Every time she has appeared it has been as an individual story. The people listed on this page are shown to be active members of the team as displayed by their storylines when they appear.   BIGNOLE     (Contact me)  05:29, 27 September 2011 (UTC)

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Oliver's identity
"Although Batman is aware that Queen is Green Arrow before he publicly reveals his secrets, Queen is oblivious of Wayne's."

Is it true? I'm trying to check the comic book, but I can't find any line where Bruce claims to be aware of Oliver's identity. Redjedi23 (talk) 11:46, 11 April 2023 (UTC)


 * I don't own the comics, so I'm not sure, but it references a specific volume. If you happen to have it, then I would look there. If it's not there, then remove the line.   BIGNOLE     (Contact me)  12:30, 12 April 2023 (UTC)
 * Ok, thank you. I checked the comic book but the line is not present, so... Redjedi23 (talk) 12:46, 12 April 2023 (UTC)
 * @Bignole I'm sorry for the ping. Can I ask you the meaning of "The series would have used characters that would be more easily cleared by the film division at Warner Bros."? Maybe it's because I'm not a native speaker, but I don't understand if "would be more easily cleared by the film division" means that they would be about to use characters that would be hardly used by the film division (i.e. for the movies) or not. Sorry again and thank you in advance. Redjedi23 (talk) 17:50, 12 April 2023 (UTC) PS: The main question is what does "cleared" mean in this context.
 * "Cleared" in this instance means "approved".   BIGNOLE     (Contact me)  18:46, 12 April 2023 (UTC)