Talk:Justin Berry/Archive 3

Collateral damage
this is fucking nasty. how did this kid's mother feel. I'd shot my self if i got caught. i mean that too. i wonder does C-SPAN or Oprah know about Xtube.com yet


 * Thanks for your comments. I'd invite you to sign them by typing --~ at the end of your comment.  From what I've seen & read, there's plenty of harm to go around.  Berry's secret life has been exposed, but the exposure also got him to give up drug abuse, prostitution, & pornography.  Those he accused have faced damage to personal & commercial reputation, as well as criminal prosecution for some.  Without judging who did what to whom, it's clear that most parties to this situation have faced negative consequences.  --Ssbohio 04:54, 27 November 2006 (UTC)

molestation
After reading the current article, I noticed that Justin Berry was 16 during the time he alleges Gourlay molested him, who himself was 23 at the time. If I am correct, that is completely legal under Michigan law as long as it does not include any acts of sodomy.--DANK 06:35, 4 December 2006 (UTC)


 * The first issue that would arise is one of sate law. My understanding of the timeline is that Berry and Gourlay first had sex when Berry, just short of his 16th birthday, attended the University of Michigan's Camp CAEN.  This would put Berry below Michigan's age of consent.  Additionally, if valuable consideration was offered, Gourlay could face charges of soliciting prostitution.  Gourlay was also charged with child pornography related activities stemming from his business relationship with Berry.


 * The second issue is that Berry apparently crossed state lines to have relations with Gourlay, and the arrangements for this trip were apparently made using Internet & telephone, both "interstate means of communication." On both these bases, Federal law would be applicable.  The Federal age of consent is 18, so Gourlay could face Federal charges as well.  --Ssbohio 04:39, 3 January 2007 (UTC)


 * To update my previous comments, it appears that the U.S. Department of Justice has declined to prosecute Gourlay, leaving him to face state charges only. --Ssbohio 20:57, 19 February 2007 (UTC)

Some modifications
I've added to the list of immunized charges wire and internet fraud since those are almost always filed when the suspect is accused of fraudulent credit card transactions involving the internet. It is also likely that he was in viloation of 18 U.S.C. § 2257 compliance, which I assume he was also immunized from. I also believe that this article, while much improved from the totalitarian WP:OFFICE action, still is much too sympathetic to Justin, thus it cannot honesty be seen as WP:NPOV. Why are there so many excuses for his illegal actions being peppered throughout the article? That alone set off my bullshit detector. In the eyes of the law, being under the influence of cocaine doesn't excuse your behaviour. Furthermore, why does it seem like the gist of this article is that he was tricked into taking cocaine? Again, this is no excuse in the eyes of the law. The appalling lack of any personal accountability in the article is glaring. All in all, good job. However more work needs to be done to better highlight his own bad behavior and emphasize how he willing exploited other victims for his own personal profit. --130.127.121.188 14:09, 5 December 2006 (UTC)


 * Overall, I'm sympathetic to your concerns. My personal view is that, based on his own account, he was victimized at 13.  However, where I differ from the orthodox view is that I believe Berry progressed rapidly from victim of manipulation to a manipulator in his own right.  By his own account, some 1,500 subscribers were induced by Berry to pay up to $50/month (plus additional payments to induce Berry to perform on request) for the privelege of watching his self-produced erotic videos.  However, be that as it may, we have to avoid defending NPOV in this article to the point of endangering the project.  As I understand it, legal action had already been threatened, and extreme care needs to be taken in writing this biography of a living person.  Thorough referencing is needed here, especially when posting any information negative or unflattering toward Berry.  He is back on the web and had reportedly contacted the Wikimedia Foundation in the past, resulting in the previous OFFICE action (see talk page archives). --Ssbohio 04:53, 3 January 2007 (UTC)

An interesting update
To anyone interested, there's a new GQ story here. --130.127.121.188 15:20, 5 December 2006 (UTC)
 * To clarify, the GQ referenced here is not GQ magazine but GenerationQ, an online magazine concerning global gay youth culture. --Ssbohio 15:52, 25 April 2007 (UTC)

Broken links
There are many broken links in the External links section. Generally I would advise footnotes excerpting relevant text from news articles together with providing a link so that all is not lost when that web page is taken down. Haiduc 14:25, 10 December 2006 (UTC)

question re: other adolescent males involved
The way this article is written, it suggests that the other adolescent males involved in the later websites were already involved when Mr. Berry was convinced to join. Was this the case? I seem to remember one of the Eichenwald articles saying that other adolescent males joined in his activities at his request, instead. Can we get confirmation one way or another? Let's not mislead anyone. --65.64.201.127 16:25, 30 December 2006 (UTC)
 * The sources I've reviewed indicate that Berry recruited both amateur and professional webcam performers for his sites, including minors. Court testimony and prosecutorial statements also indicate that videos exist of Berry engaging in sex acts with minors.  --Ssbohio 01:57, 26 January 2007 (UTC)