Talk:Justin Capră

Untitled
This article was approved by user User:Racklever to not be removed because it has refs:

20:27, 21 January 2015‎ User:Racklever (-60)‎. . (Article has refs so "speedy deletion" removed)

Keep, Contested deletion
This page should not be speedily deleted because... (your reason here) --94.177.32.154 (talk) 09:33, 21 January 2015 (UTC)

Justin Capra is a legend between Romanian engineers. Some peoples contest the value of his work but the fact that he build outstanding engineering equipment in a very dark age of Communism from Romania means a lot to many people. He must be known to English readers as well. 09:33, 21 January 2015‎ User:94.177.32.154

Keep (2)
This page should not be speedily deleted because... (your reason here) --Eminescus (talk) 20:25, 21 January 2015 (UTC)

The references (from Yahoo News, CTV News and many newspapars around the world) show this person is renowned. I am copy pasting some of the references from this wikipedia article here:

^ "Romanian who claimed he invented world's 1st jetpack dies". Yahoo News. 20 January 2015. Retrieved 20 January 2015. ^ "Romanian who claimed he invented world's first jetpack dies". CTV News. 20 January 2015. Retrieved 20 January 2015. ^ "Justin Capra, Inventor of 784 MPG Car, Dies at 81". greenoptimistic.com. 20 January 2015. Retrieved 20 January 2015. ^ "Justin Capra Biography". FamousWhy. 20 January 2011. Retrieved 20 January 2015. ^ "Romanian who claimed he invented world's 1st jetpack dies". thestate.com. 20 January 2015. Retrieved 20 January 2015. ^ "Romanian who claimed he invented world's 1st jetpack dies". The Bellingham Herald. 20 January 2015. Retrieved 20 ^ "Justin Capra, the mind who could have changed Romania". Adevarul. 23 February 2013. Retrieved 20 January 2015. ^ "Car Built by Romanian Inventor Gets 784 MPG Fuel Efficiency". greenoptimistic.com. 19 May 2011. Retrieved 20 January 2015.

Ref list reformatted:-
 * "Romanian who claimed he invented world's 1st jetpack dies". Yahoo News. 20 January 2015. Retrieved 20 January 2015.
 * "Romanian who claimed he invented world's first jetpack dies". Canada CTV Television | CTV News. 20 January 2015. Retrieved 20 January 2015.
 * "Justin Capra, Inventor of 784 MPG Car, Dies at 81". GreenOptimistic.com. 20 January 2015. Retrieved 20 January 2015.
 * "Justin Capra Biography". FamousWhy. 20 January 2011. Retrieved 20 January 2015.
 * "Romanian who claimed he invented world's 1st jetpack dies". TheState.com. 20 January 2015. Retrieved 20 January 2015.
 * "Romanian who claimed he invented world's 1st jetpack dies". The Bellingham Herald . 20 January 2015. Retrieved 20
 * "Justin Capra, the mind who could have changed Romania". Adevarul. 23 February 2013. Retrieved 20 January 2015.
 * "Car Built by Romanian Inventor Gets 784 MPG Fuel Efficiency". http://www.greenoptimistic.com/2011/05/19/justin-capra-car/#.VMFi4SvF-c5 . 19 May 2011. Retrieved 20 January 2015.
 * Anthony Appleyard (talk) 09:55, 22 January 2015 (UTC)

Preventing overwrite?
Wiki moderators, is any way to stop an user from replacing an article with his stub version of it?

Can any moderator stop Biruitorul user, who deleted the article 3 times and replaced it with his stub - a brief and less informed version form of it. He deleted a lot of information backed by plenty of references. It is against wiki policies.

The original article Justin Capra, deleted and replaced 3 times in the last few days by Biruitorul with his stub?

Let's step back and see the full history of this.

First, Biruitorul user wanted to have the article "Justin Capra" speedy deleted.

Now, after Wikipedia decided keep the article, Biruitorul user deleted everything from the article (all the person inventions, all the references including Associated Press, CNN, Yahoo News and other trusted sources), so he deleted everything else and wants to keep an article which only mimics what an obscure lawyer Lehto wrote in his book.

"Biruitorul", who by the way, his wiki name in Romanian archaic means "the winner", is someone who self characterize himself as a nationalist person who clashes with other people opinions, a person that fights too much for his own view, by deleting, in this case, other people contributions.

Why do we need to have just Lehto's view on the subject, when there are many other trusted sources, and Justin Capra has indeed invented many other things, not only the "claimed" jet-pack.

The article was deleted by Biruitorul and replaced with his stub own version which is based mostly (if not at all) on a book by a lawyer named Lehto. I then included his changes in my previous deleted article, but I find again he deleted all the merge of my article and his article, replacing everything with his stub - a short version of the article. Basically this person did this deletion of my article and replaced it with his own version of the article for few times now. I don't have time and I don't want to spend time on this game of replacing articles. This kind of behavior of a person continuously replacing an existing article with his own version that is poorer in information and in facts. He is even replacing with his own version a combined version of the articles which contained his version.

Eminescus (talk) 18:33, 4 March 2015 (UTC)


 * The results of the most recent AfD were not to keep the article. No consensus was reached about what to do with the article, so the default position is to keep the status quo (and keep the article).


 * has removed large portions of the article claiming that material is unsourced or uncited and violates the guidelines on fringe theories. Since the expanded version is what was here at the time the last AfD closes, I'm going to suggest that Biruitorul should explain, on a point-by-point basis, why the various sections should be removed. If they're solid, policy-based reasons, then it may be best to remove them until consensus provides a policy-based reason to add them.
 * @Biruitorul: The ball is in your court. Can you explain, here on the talk page, why you want the sections removed? —C.Fred (talk) 18:46, 5 March 2015 (UTC)


 * C.Fred, I'll try my best to summarize my concerns.
 * First, a good portion of the long version (let's call it that) is uncited, and uncited material should be removed if no source emerges to back it up.


 * Most of the long version is cited, sourced with trusted source references. Please delete only what is uncited, not the whole long version. --- Eminescus (talk) 02:14, 7 March 2015 (UTC)


 * Second, the tone is biased in favor of Capră's claims and takes as a starting point the notion that he was the inventor of the jet pack, when in fact serious doubt exists as to those claims.


 * The tone of the Lehto's book, from which all of 's primary sources lie on, is very biased.
 * Lehto wrote that Justin Capra didn't provide "documentation" to prove he built the jet-pack in 1958.
 * Capra was awarded in June 1958 with a patent. Was it easy to get a patent for an invention in Communist Romania, for sure NO. And the Patent is, on Earth, at least, the ultimate documentation one can provide to attest he invented something. On the other hand when we talk about Communist Romania: nobody had any "stamped" documentation at home from Military or Air-force, it was/ it is against the law. Secondly, all the newspapers in Communism were only writing about the Communist Leaders and Communism achievements, no other article can be found about other things, including inventions inside the Military Units.-Eminescus (talk) 02:14, 7 March 2015 (UTC)
 * Lehto wrote that Justin Capra didn't have videos of him flying the jet-pack. Justin had only photos. Then Lehto strikes -why the photos Justin Capra provided weren't dated?
 * Lehto arguments are so lawyer-style (lawyer who can prove even the worst criminals are innocent in their pathetic arguments): in 1958 there were no smartphones, no cell phones, there were no digital camera, or no cameras that could print the date on the photos. Romanians didn't have access to cinema-type cameras with film at home (or at work). In 1958 there was barely TV. What is Lehto thinking when asking his silly questions? That some fouls would be caught in his "lawyer arguments making the right wrong"? Lehto questions are so childish, so foolish. His "hoax annex" about Justin Capra invention is so much full of rhetoric questions and full of illogical arguments, but hey, this is his job bread and butter, to make non-sense out of sense.
 * --- Eminescus (talk) 02:14, 7 March 2015 (UTC)


 * Third, the text and the format are utterly chaotic, with poor grammar, blind links, cloned links, random quotes and more the order of the day.


 * , in wikipedia according to its rules, no one can delete text if there are just some grammar mistakes. if you find some mistakes, just put an warning above the section you found like that. --- Eminescus (talk) 02:14, 7 March 2015 (UTC)


 * In the short version, I respected the fact that there was no consensus to delete, and worked to provide as accurate a picture as I could of the subject


 * Nope, with all the respect, you were biased when you asked the article to be deleted. Now you are even more biased when you created a stub article on Justin Capra based only on his most acerbic critic: Lehto, who is totally biased. Sorry, but your "contribution" to this article is only to pour non-sense arguments found from an unknown author, Lehto, who is so biased. I can tell you, in my opinion, your stub is full of false logic, full of garbage, it is not based on correct research, or on science or on truth.


 * I don't delete Biruitorul stuff, even if I consider it false-arguments, because I don't delete other people stuff.


 * Why is Biruitorul deleting other people contributions, it is beyond me to understand. But I see Biruitorul talk is not doing only here this editing war of replacing an article with his form of article. -- Eminescus (talk) 02:14, 7 March 2015 (UTC)


 * one that summarizes both his claims and the counter-claims made about his statements. Everything is cited, and the material is based on reliable published sources, with an attempt to adhere to neutral language and an unbiased presentation of the facts as we know them from those sources. - Biruitorul Talk 20:03, 5 March 2015 (UTC)

Justin Capra created many devices, cars, flying machines, etc. probably not all of them were working or were not efficient, but his vision and energy he placed into building these devices was an inspiration for many people and a reason of envy for others. It is not only sad but it's almost discrediting Wikipedia for allowing personal feelings of a person interfere with the content of the page. "The larger version" of the article must be added back to Wikipedia. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 94.177.32.154 (talk) 15:00, 23 March 2015 (UTC)

Lehto lawyer and his arguments against Justin Capra have no basis
Biruitorul found out to a book written by Lehto, a lawyer, "The American jet-pack".

You know lawyers. They get the money from defending even bad people, so they know how to make a bad person look good and a good-faith person look bad.

Lehto wrote that Justin Capra didn't provide documentation to prove he built the jet-pack in 1958.

- my opinion: nobody had any documentation at home from Military or Air-force at home, it is against the law. Secondly, all the newspapers in Communism were only writing about the Communist Leaders and Communism achievements, no other article can be found about Military inventions.

- Justin provided proof the brevet - he received in June 1958 a brevet for the jet-pack. What more documentation is needed? This is more than sufficient, but it seems for Lehto this was not "documentation", you know lawyers way of arguing.

Lehto wrote that Justin Capra doesn't have videos or photos of him flying the jet-pack, then wen photos were provided he said they weren't dated

- his arguments are so silly, but because for the record, let me say something: in 1958 there was no digital camera, or no cameras that could print the date on the photos. In 1958 there was barely TV. In 1958 there was no SmartPhone or some other gadgets. What is Lehto thinking when asking his silly questions? That some fouls would be caught in his "layer smart spider net"? His questions are so childish, so fooolish.

Lehto continues with his childish, narrow-minded and silly questions: How did Justin Capra learn to fly the device, and other bla-bla-bla-ish garbage questions

- if look deeper in the articles, Justin didn't fly the jet-pack himself. It was flown by a specialist in the army - a paratrooper. His name is stated.

Eminescus (talk) 19:15, 4 March 2015 (UTC)

Content dispute
I think we should try to resolve this by sections (or lines) and citations. Retail, not wholesale. I would say that Lehto is a lawyer from Michigan, but he has done some respectable historical work. He did good work on the Italian Hall disaster a/k/a Calumet disaster. I have not read what he said about the matter here in question, but I don't think he should be dismissed out of hand. 7&amp;6=thirteen (☎) 16:56, 29 March 2015 (UTC)