Talk:Juwan Howard

VD and Censorship
Why is this being censored? What does wikipedia have to hide? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 203.170.226.91 (talk) 08:49, 16 November 2007 (UTC)

Derek Anderson
The following should be included:

During the 2000-2001 season, Howard played for the Dallas Mavericks against the San Antonio Spurs in the second round of the playoffs. During a game, he slammed Spurs guard Derek Anderson to the floor, injuring Anderson, and was ejected. The Spurs easily defeated Dallas in the series but were swept by the Lakers in the next round, largely due to Anderson's injury. As a result, Howard is hated in San Antonio and is held responsible by fans for costing the Spurs the 2001 NBA Championship. --William S. Saturn (talk) 20:55, 19 May 2010 (UTC)

Nash and Nowitzki
In the line: "On a team with All-star Michael Finley and future all-stars Steve Nash and Dirk Nowitzki, Howard was the highest paid player" - perhaps "future all-stars" should be replaced with "future MVPs" since this is accurate and more impressive.--William S. Saturn (talk) 07:51, 28 May 2010 (UTC)Yes I agree with William since Steve Nash and Dirk Nowitzki were both MVPS. (Steve Nash in 2005 and 2006 and Dirk Nowitzki in 2007).

Copyediting questions
Lead
 * I think "man-games" needs a link or an explanation. I don't see anything to link to. I'm pretty sure "man-games" means the total number of games the team played multiplied by five. Also, the man-game numbers should appear in the main text if they appear in the lead since the lead is a summary.
 * Man game is not exactly the number of games multiplied by five, but in this case it is because we are talking about 5 guys. During a season each player (man) can play in each game giving the possible number of games for that man as the number of games on the schedule.  There is no real link, but I am open to suggestions on addressing this issue.--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 23:59, 1 September 2010 (UTC)

High school
 * "The summer after his sophomore year, the 6-foot-8-inch (2.03 m) Howard attended the Nike/ABCD camp" - I'm pretty sure this refers to a training camp sponsored by Nike, but I don't know what ABCD means, and I don't see anything to link to. Is it an abbreviation?
 * Although out of context ABCD could be the name of a company with two companies getting together to put on a camp, I believe it is just some sort of name for the camp. I think the reader is best served knowing he went to a camp affiliated with Nike.  I have no further content for ABCD to add or link to.--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 00:02, 2 September 2010 (UTC)
 * ABCD stands for "Academic Betterment and Career Development" . Zagal e jo^^^ 04:29, 2 September 2010 (UTC)
 * I have tried to rework the text and add the ref.--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 14:22, 2 September 2010 (UTC)


 * "Involved in controversy for receiving a second pair of sneakers, he was sent home on the last day of the six-day camp." - Should I add the word "early" so the phrase reads "sent home early on the last day"? I assume that was the case, but I shouldn't just guess.
 * I made this change.--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 00:04, 2 September 2010 (UTC)


 * "He also participated in the B/C camp" - I don't know what B/C means, and lots of other readers won't know either. Can you help me out with this?
 * Maybe recruits are graded as A, B, C, D recruits. I really don't know.  It is just a name to me and I have no further info.--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 00:07, 2 September 2010 (UTC)
 * I don't think that has anything to do with it. The B/C All-Stars Basketball Camp was owned by Bill Bolton and Bill Cronauer, so my guess is that the name derives from their last names. I can't find anything that explicitly says that, though. Zagal e jo^^^ 04:39, 2 September 2010 (UTC)
 * Thanks Zagalejo. That was enough of a hint that I found it here. BC stands for Bill Cronauer. Finetooth (talk) 17:14, 2 September 2010 (UTC)
 * Ah, OK. Good find. Zagal e jo^^^ 03:07, 3 September 2010 (UTC)


 * I don't think that ref will count as a WP:RS, but at least we know what the camp is. We just need a better ref to include in the article.--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 14:25, 2 September 2010 (UTC)


 * "Because of Howard's admiration of Thomas, he was said to be leaning toward playing for the Illinois Fighting Illini alongside Thomas or possibly DePaul." - I think this means that Thomas had not decided whether to play for Illinois or DePaul. If so, I think this would be more clear: "Because of Howard's admiration of Thomas, he was said to be leaning toward playing for the Illinois Fighting Illini or DePaul alongside Thomas." Or, if Thomas had definitely chosen Illinois, then maybe this would be more clear: "Howard was said to be leaning toward playing for DePaul or, because of his admiration for Thomas, for the Illinois Fighting Illini".
 * O.K. Change made.--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 00:11, 2 September 2010 (UTC)


 * "By this time, Howard had eliminated DePaul from consideration since Deryl Cunningham had transferred to Kansas State." - I think this is the first mention of Cunningham. Maybe he should be mentioned in the sentence above about Howard's leaning toward DePaul or Illinois?
 * I think I could just add "another Chicago-area all-star" after Cunningham's name. This would be supportable but is not likely to be challenged, and it would make it more clear why Howard would be interested in Cunningham. Finetooth (talk) 17:40, 2 September 2010 (UTC)
 * That is good for now. I am going to go into the Sun-Times archives in about an hour and see if I can help you any further.--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 17:51, 2 September 2010 (UTC)


 * I'm having some trouble with the fourth paragraph, which begins "After his junior year... ". Most of the paragraph is about the second Nike camp, but sentences about the Boston Shootout and the Prairie State Games are in there too. Could we say something like "During the summer, he also took part in the Boston Shootout and the Prairie State Games"? It might be helpful to say where these events were held and to add the chronology. Did they come before or after the Nike camp?
 * I will dig through the Sun-Times refs a bit later.--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 14:18, 2 September 2010 (UTC)
 * We could just delete the Prairie State Games sentence, which is the only one left in the paragraph that interrupts the logical flow of the prose. I'm not sure his performance in one game was of much significance. Finetooth (talk) 18:07, 2 September 2010 (UTC)


 * "Howard, who finished in the top 10 percent of his class, is said to have influenced King's decision to attend Michigan." - I assume this means top 10 percent academically. If so, is that connected to his influence over King, or did the influence come from Howard's playing ability? The sentence seems to suggest that King was impressed by Howard's scholarly ability. Should we separate the two ideas?
 * Yes. The ideas should be separated.--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 05:31, 2 September 2010 (UTC)
 * Done. Finetooth (talk) 18:09, 2 September 2010 (UTC)
 * Finetooth (talk) 23:30, 1 September 2010 (UTC)

Copyediting question (College career)

 * "During the 1992 summer, controversy arose when three Wolverines were found to have been paid $300 to participate in a charity basketball tournament and others, including Howard, appeared at several summer basketball camps together." The pay is a familiar no-no, but is appearing at basketball camps a no-no? I'm pretty fuzzy on the NCAA rules, so I wouldn't know one way or the other. If this is an NCAA rule, what problem is it supposed to address? Are they not supposed to go to these camps at all, or are they not supposed to go together? Or is it something else? Finetooth (talk) 01:42, 3 September 2010 (UTC)
 * I just emailed that story.--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 03:23, 3 September 2010 (UTC)
 * Got it, thanks. Finetooth (talk) 04:45, 3 September 2010 (UTC)

Marriage, philanthropy
Tony, do you want to include anything about his marriage and contemporary family or the Juwan Howard Foundation? I find mention of these by Googling, but the sources seem mainly to be blogs and fan sites. If you have good sources and want to add a sentence about his marriage (when and to whom) and his son (name, age), and maybe a sentence about his charitable work, I think that would be good. Finetooth (talk) 17:23, 5 September 2010 (UTC)
 * He has an older son according to this.--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 20:00, 5 September 2010 (UTC)
 * The most reputable links for his current relationship all fail WP:RS (non-RS, needs subscription, non-RS). We could include one of these and say that for an article with this many reffed facts, the only thing we can not adequately source is his current wife and family. I can't find any marriage info in the Sun Times or Tribune or any mention of his current wife's name.
 * Adding content regarding his foundation is fine if we can find a WP:RS.--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 20:00, 5 September 2010 (UTC)

Here is some good stuff about his foundation:
 * http://www.iamatrailblazersfan.com/ArticleDisplay/tabid/120/ItemID/1442/Default.aspx
 * http://www.maxpreps.com/news/a1HroHKyEd6OEwAcxJTdpg/illinois--former-chicago-star-juwan-howard-returns-with-camp.htm
 * Mentioned here: http://www.nba.com/playerfile/juwan_howard/bio.html

Tony any thoughts on adding specifcs about lifestyle and life off the court of Jenine and Juwan? Here is a good link to gather some information:
 * http://mirramirror.com/2011/04/nba-wife-spotlight-jenine-howard/ — Preceding unsigned comment added by Paymoney (talk • contribs) 23:43, 24 January 2014 (UTC)

Question marks in citations

 * "Temkin, Barry (1989-07-13). "On high schools". Chicago Tribune: p. 5, section ???." - Should a section name or number be added to each citation like this one with question marks?
 * I think I found the article under a different title at online from the Tribune archive in the External links. I have swapped it into the article.--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 20:07, 5 September 2010 (UTC)


 * What about the other 50 or so that end with three question marks? I don't think these will get through FAC. Here's a partial list of citations with the same problem: 21, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 36, 37, 38, 48, 49, 52. This is by no means the complete list. I was hoping you had handwritten notes or something with this data included. Finetooth (talk) 02:51, 6 September 2010 (UTC)
 * I don't know why I put the question marks, but we now have the Tribune archive in the external links and can find links to all these articles. What I had to do for the one above was go to the archive.  On the right side the articles are by date.  At the bottom on the right you will see a 1|2|3|4|5|next option. Click any of those.  At the top you will see the page number is the last character of the url. To go past 5 you have to do so manually by changing the URL.  All articles can be found I imagine.  You can start if you want. On Tuesday, I will have time to help out. I will do the odd ref numbers if you like.  Then we can remove the print edition page numbers.  I added the question marks because I know the Tribune has sections and these sports stories are usually in the sports section, which is not section one.--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 04:00, 6 September 2010 (UTC)
 * Tony, I just don't have time to do this. I have many other things to do on Wikipedia as well as many outside responsibilities. I think the article is ready for FAC except for these tedious citation chores and perhaps adding a bit more about Howard's personal life, as noted above. I've been glad to help, but I don't actually need to be a co-nom or get a star for this. All I did was a careful c/e, mostly just a very careful proofreading. If you can find another co-nom who is willing to finish out this last part and maybe cast another set of eyes over the article, I won't mind at all. Finetooth (talk) 04:58, 6 September 2010 (UTC)
 * I would not even feel right about not having you as a co-nom at this point. You only have 5 days from when you start an article to get it up to WP:DYK standards.  Since I am in the WP:CUP I have to add a bit to a bunch of articles that I started in the last few days that are in this template.  I could lose 50 or 100 easy CUP points if I do not do this.  After I fill in a few more of the low hanging fruit from this template I will fill in the refs at Juwan Howard and add in the personal stuff.  I should be able to do some of that on Tuesday.  I am shooting to get this up at FAC before the end of the week. I assume you are watching this page. You will see me swap out the refs and fill in some personal stuff.  I think you should be along for the ride at FAC.--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 06:09, 6 September 2010 (UTC)

Because of the Chicago weather, I was able to avoid a 4 hour commitment. That will give me four hours today to work on this. Will start within the hour.--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 20:50, 6 September 2010 (UTC)
 * I have swapped out the print refs for online refs. Out of the dozens I could not find two in the Trib archives and had to go back to the ProQuest source.--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 22:27, 6 September 2010 (UTC)


 * I see discussion about bringing this up for a FAC review from over two years ago. It looks ready for consideration ... is there any reason it should not be reviewed for FA status?--Epeefleche (talk) 17:07, 27 February 2013 (UTC)
 * It is ongoing here.—Bagumba (talk) 17:11, 27 February 2013 (UTC)

Howards Grandmother passing away
I think there needs to be something about Howards grandmother passing away on the day he signed with Michigan added to the artical. Then how the coaches showed up to give him support at the funeral. Here is some refs about that. http://mitchalbom.com/d/journalism/2904/tonights-nightthe-tall-man-middlelost-and-found-family http://mitchalbom.com/d/journalism/3189/great-recruiting-chasehow-determined-u-m-wom-howard-and-webber this guy wrote a book with the info in it and here is a transcript from "The Fab Five" from ESPN Films http://livedash.ark.com/transcript/the_fab_five/33/ESPN/Friday_March_25_2011/574923/ Theworm777 (talk) 11:08, 13 March 2013 (UTC)


 * I see "Howard's grandmother died of a heart attack a few hours after he announced that he would attend Michigan" is in the start of the high school section, but it dont show how the coaches show up to give him support there and happened during his senior year. He also signed his letter of intent that day not just announce he was going there. Theworm777 (talk) 12:36, 13 March 2013 (UTC)
 * Do you have a suggested summary that you feel should be in the article? You seem to be more familiar with this issue than I. Would you care to take a stab at this issue?--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 14:11, 13 March 2013 (UTC)
 * On Nov. 14,1990 Howard's grandmother died of a heart attack a few hours after he signed his letter of intent to attend and play for Michigan. Coach Fisher, his wife, Angie, and Coach Dutcher, showed up to give him support at her funeral. Them being there was important to Howard, who has said "It was like I lost one family, and I got another one". After her death, he moved in with his high school coach, Richard Cook, during his senior year.

Is something like I think it should be.But I am not sure where it should be at either after it says he announced he would attend Michigan on Nov. 2nd or at the end of the lead of the High School section also not sure if the 3 new sources are good enough. Theworm777 (talk) 17:25, 13 March 2013 (UTC)

Albom
Is Albom's book a work of fiction? Google books labels it as such, and it appears to be written in the style of a novel. DrKiernan (talk) 17:36, 3 February 2015 (UTC)
 * @User:TonyTheTiger: was my query above missed? DrKiernan (talk) 18:21, 11 May 2015 (UTC)
 * I don't even understand your question? How could it be a work of fiction?--TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 01:18, 12 May 2015 (UTC)
 * The source provided in the article says that it is. And unlike other biographies there appear to be no sources listed in the book itself. However, I have seen on Albom's website that it is listed as non-fiction so the question is now moot. DrKiernan (talk) 12:15, 12 May 2015 (UTC)

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Kids
How many kids does he have. this Joshua Howard page claims 3. this Jace Howard page claims 6.-TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 12:18, 28 May 2019 (UTC)

Punch
Hey! I saw you removed the section about the altercation with Gard – it is a recent event, but there have already been calls to fire him from his position as a result of that. (There are also countless twitter posts, though I doubt those contribute at all to this discussion, though there is this.) Seems like a pretty significant event that has gotten lots of recent news coverage – sure, it's recent, but that doesn't mean it's not able to be included. However, I am all ears for whatever you have to say here! Skarmory  (talk •   contribs)  00:56, 21 February 2022 (UTC)
 * No doubt there is news coverage and random calls to fire him and twitter responses. But that's not what an encyclopedic biography is about. If this becomes enduring or there is some actual response that impacts his employment or status, then it would seem to be notable for inclusion. Until them, WP:RECENT seems to suggest avoiding any significant mention. -- Zim Zala Bim talk 02:04, 21 February 2022 (UTC)
 * Okay; I suspect he'll get suspended eventually, which I assume would qualify under "impacts his employment or status". Until then, it can stay out, and if that never happens it'll stay out forever. Thanks! Skarmory   (talk •   contribs)  06:31, 21 February 2022 (UTC)
 * Agreed if there are some long-lasting impact from the event, then suitable for brief mention in our encyclopedia. -- Zim Zala Bim talk 15:09, 21 February 2022 (UTC)