Talk:K.C. Undercover

"Sassy"
The character "Judy" is described to be "sassy". I've linked it to "rudeness" for now, but since sassy links to a disambig with no definition there either, where should we link it to? Please use ping when you respond. --Mr. Guye (talk) 22:33, 25 February 2015 (UTC)

Episode Summaries
Many episode summaries are poorly written. I don't have the time to fix all of the summaries. Can somebody fix them? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.162.155.239 (talk) 16:10, 8 March 2015 (UTC)
 * This is a collaborative project, you don't need to fix them all, pick a few and improve them as you have the time and interest. Geraldo Perez (talk) 16:38, 8 March 2015 (UTC)

What happened to the episode summaries?
All of the episode summaries for current DC series were written very well. Then it looks like someone came in and tried to rewrite all of them. Now they are all very poorly written. 2600:1004:B115:C920:118B:78E9:1EE4:FDD6 (talk) 15:13, 10 May 2015 (UTC) P.S. The way the summaries are written tells me that the same person is writing the summaries for all the DC series.

"I" and "II"
What do "I" and "II" mean in the episode list? For example:

Cat Davis & Eddie Quintana (I) (Part 1) Eileen Conn (II) (Part 2)

nyuszika7h (talk) 11:24, 2 July 2015 (UTC)


 * Those were likely how these people were named on IMDb as that is how IMDb handles different people with the same name. Shouldn't do that here as names should match exactly what is listed in the actual viewed show credits. Geraldo Perez (talk) 13:27, 2 July 2015 (UTC)


 * Thanks. "Part 1" and "Part 2" weren't IMDb disambiguators, though. The production code implies it's a two-part episode, but I think it doesn't hurt having those there. nyuszika7h (talk) 09:54, 4 July 2015 (UTC)


 * "Double Crossed" is a 3 parter shown on 3 separate dates. Part 1 is a single long episode created from merging 2 productions into one for presentation - one set of credits, one episode. First half and second half for crew credits should have been how noted, but not really necessary. I should have explained more on my edit summary. Geraldo Perez (talk) 13:23, 4 July 2015 (UTC)


 * I know that, but I was wondering why they are on separate lines then. Now I realized that they wouldn't fit nicely on one line, so it's better this way. nyuszika7h (talk) 15:08, 4 July 2015 (UTC)

Writers for first episode
I feel like the way the writers are displayed for episode 1 since Amaury's change is confusing. It's not immediately obvious that the story is written by Corinne Marshall and the teleplay by both Rob Lotterstein and Corinne Marshall. The previous form made the column wider, though, so I'm not sure what would be the best way to deal with it. nyuszika7h (talk) 12:10, 22 July 2015 (UTC)
 * We could always add another (teleplay), but I personally think it's clear that it's meant for both, and, as you said, it looks better as the other version made the column too wide. Amaury (talk) 15:15, 22 July 2015 (UTC)
 * Is that better? That's how some other articles have it. Amaury (talk) 17:49, 22 July 2015 (UTC)
 * Looks good. nyuszika7h (talk) 20:19, 22 July 2015 (UTC)

Wikilink breaks anchor
The wikilink to Veronica Dunne in the cast section broke the anchor – it's .5B.5BVeronica_Dunne.5D.5D instead of just Veronica_Dunne. Not sure how to fix it. nyuszika7h (talk) 11:57, 1 August 2015 (UTC)
 * Actually, wasn't the anchor only used for the redirect from Veronica's article back when it was nominated for deletion? nyuszika7h  (talk) 11:59, 1 August 2015 (UTC)
 * Fixed anchor. Still used as Articles for deletion/Veronica Dunne still applies. Geraldo Perez (talk) 14:04, 1 August 2015 (UTC)

Co-stars
I was just wondering, do we want to list co-stars? I've seen them listed in some other articles. nyuszika7h (talk) 16:20, 25 August 2015 (UTC)
 * Not really, no, but there are some articles, as you noticed, that should probably be cleaned out of that. I actually discussed this a while ago with . They're background characters with a very small role, but aren't considered notable enough, I think it was, to be guest stars. See the last couple messages of this discussion. Amaury (talk) 16:25, 25 August 2015 (UTC)
 * I thought so, thanks for the reply. I also noticed that for some episodes, we have co-stars listed as guest stars. For example, the list for episode 2 before my edit is the same as Wikia's one, but I'm not sure who copied who. And Isaiah Watson doesn't seem to be listed in the ending credits at all. nyuszika7h (talk) 16:32, 25 August 2015 (UTC)

Runaway Robot
Since the two-part "Runaway Robot" is aired on the same day and advertised as a one-hour special episode, should it be listed as a single episode? nyuszika7h (talk) 09:00, 28 August 2015 (UTC)
 * It should be listed as a single episode if it actually is a single episode with one set of credits. Being advertised and described as a one-hour special supports that. After the episode airs we can verify it being a single episode when iTunes and Amazon list it for sale as a single entity. Geraldo Perez (talk) 14:25, 28 August 2015 (UTC)

Judy's age
So, we have an interesting situation here. In-universe info conflicts with what DisneyABCPress says. In "Runaway Robot", it's mentioned that Judy is 8 years old, but the press site says she's 10 years old. If I understand correctly, we should go with what DisneyABCPress says in lack of another source, but this is definitely strange. nyuszika7h (talk) 22:15, 8 September 2015 (UTC)
 * Was the robot built 8 years previously or does it have a designed physical appearance similar to an 10-years old? Or is all this being left deliberately ambiguous? Might be described as a robot that appears to be a 10-year-old girl that was built 8 years ago. Geraldo Perez (talk) 23:31, 8 September 2015 (UTC)
 * That's a good point. DisneyABCPress says "a sophisticated humanoid robot disguised as a precocious 10-year-old", so that probably isn't her actual age. The exact line from the episode is "You can't let an eight-year-old walk out alone." nyuszika7h (talk) 15:18, 9 September 2015 (UTC)

Season 1 episode count and finale
I'm not sure whether this counts as original research, but based on the production codes, it is obvious that "K.C. and Brett: The Final Chapter" is going to be the two-part series finale. The episode count cited in the source actually refers to the number of productions, and some were merged into a double-length episode. nyuszika7h (talk) 22:42, 9 January 2016 (UTC)
 * Best to get a reliable source that explicitly states this is the series finale. Merging info from multiple sources to reach that conclusion is WP:SYNTHESIS. Geraldo Perez (talk) 15:53, 10 January 2016 (UTC)
 * I found a source, but I'm not sure how to phrase the sentence about the episode count, as 29 is correct when referring to the productions, but that became 27 episodes. nyuszika7h (talk) 17:09, 21 January 2016 (UTC)
 * That is a sufficient reference for the last two episodes being the final episodes of the season. It said nothing about episode count. We generally only care about what has aired, not produced, so not necessary to mention number of productions that went in to the season. The current text "The first season will consist of 29 episodes" is well-referenced future planning info that have been superseded by what actually happened. It can be replaced with "The first season consisted of 27 episodes" after the final episode has aired and the reference that ep27 is the final episode of the season supports the count. Geraldo Perez (talk) 17:38, 21 January 2016 (UTC)

Enemy of the State
insists that Marisa was not absent for the episode Enemy of the State, and I'm not willing to continue reverting their edits and get myself in an edit war because of their insistence. There's a segment at the end where the actors are themselves and are therefore not in character. As such, it doesn't count because it was neither part of the episode nor the story. In addition, Marisa was absent as Veronica Dunne only appeared as herself at the end, not as Marisa. Amaury (talk) 01:14, 10 January 2016 (UTC)
 * If the character didn't appear then the character was not in the episode. The actress as herself is not in character. Is the end segment part of the episode proper or something added for just this broadcast? If part of the episode it could be noted that the character was not in the episode but the actress was in the episode summary. Geraldo Perez (talk) 02:24, 10 January 2016 (UTC)
 * See 16:35 here. (It sounds fast because the uploader sped it up a bit.) This segment is after the end credits, and it's always there when the episode shows, so it's actually likely part of the episode, much like that message regarding bullying in that episode of Austin & Ally where Trish is bullied. However, that still doesn't count as Marisa being in the episode as we have both stated. Amaury (talk) 02:32, 10 January 2016 (UTC)
 * Just got finished watching that episode myself, on demand, and the end segment, which begins as "A message from the cast of K.C. Undercover", rolls right after the end credits have finished. So it may not be part of the episode itself, even though it runs with it at the end, thus being part of the broadcast of the episode. Veronica Dunne is in it, but as herself, along with Kamil McFadden and Trinitee Stokes, addressing something that happened in the episode, saying how wrong it is to ship a person in the mail ... which happens to Judy in the episode. I don't know about whether this qualifies as Dunne being absent (she definitely is, as her character), but would be odd seeing her listed as absent in the summary when viewers clearly see the actress at the end (though not in character). MPFitz1968 (talk) 02:47, 10 January 2016 (UTC)
 * I looked at the clip and it is scripted creative content related to the story in the episode but not part of the story. Still it is designed to be a integrated part of the episode as broadcast, an after credits stinger. The actors are still acting even if they they are using their real names. As such Marisa the character was missing but Veronica Dunne the actress was in the episode playing herself. The article just has to document that which I think this does. Geraldo Perez (talk) 03:15, 10 January 2016 (UTC)

There seems to be a misunderstanding on Amaury's part - from the very beginning I made it clear that it was the character that was absent (I'm not disputing that), not the actress herself. Cindylover1969 (talk) 08:52, 10 January 2016 (UTC)
 * Well, we aren't lying if we say "Absent: Veronica Dunne as Marisa", but I'm not really sure. nyuszika7h (talk) 11:12, 10 January 2016 (UTC)
 * The edit summary is free-form, we don't need to force a templated presentation of the key info if it doesn't fit. "Veronica Dunne does not appear in the episode as Marisa, she appears out of character ..." is sufficient to get the info across to readers. Geraldo Perez (talk) 15:45, 10 January 2016 (UTC)

K.C. and Brett: The Final Chapter – Part 1
I was surprised to see that the only guest star listed in the end credits is Sherri Shepherd (as Beverly). Ross Butler (as Brett) and Roz Ryan (as Grandma Gayle) are only listed as co-stars, despite Disney Channel's press release listing them as guest stars. Although I haven't watched the actual episode yet, at least Brett seems like a pretty important character given the past history and the episode title. What should we do in this case? nyuszika7h (talk) 17:12, 19 January 2016 (UTC)
 * Kind of shocking, given Butler (Brett) is listed as a special guest star in the two three "Double Crossed" episodes earlier in the season, according to what I'm seeing in the episode list. MPFitz1968 (talk) 17:22, 19 January 2016 (UTC)
 * Strange. If their character is important enough to have an episode featuring them, the actor should have gotten guest star credit in the episode credits. On the other hand credit level is also a negotiated contract issue. One option is if they are not listed as guest stars in the end credits, list the actor next to the character name in the summary description in parenthesis and don't list in the guest star list at the end of the summary. That way they show up without being mislabeled. Probably would be good to add a hidden explanatory note about this after the guest star list. Geraldo Perez (talk) 19:43, 19 January 2016 (UTC)
 * Turns out he was just a normal guest star in the "Double Crossed" episodes, still strange that he's only credited as a co-star in the finale though. nyuszika7h (talk) 21:00, 29 February 2016 (UTC)

WP:SPLIT
Now that there are known—and sourced—season two episodes, a WP:SPLIT is appropriate. I will be splitting sometime this week. Amaury (talk) 20:47, 10 February 2016 (UTC)
 * Yep, time for the split. Geraldo Perez (talk) 20:52, 10 February 2016 (UTC)
 * When you do that, please change the season #1 color to something that makes sense, please!... --IJBall (contribs • talk) 04:40, 11 February 2016 (UTC)
 * Done.


 * , I also removed the references for the first episode as The Futon Critic now also says Pilot instead of Premiere Episode. Amaury (talk) 17:50, 11 February 2016 (UTC)

Erica and Abby
Erica's and Abby's last name (Martin) was mentioned in the press release but the actual show credits only list their first names. Is it OK to list the last names in the character list like they are now (perhaps with a citation to the press release), or should this be moved to the description too? nyuszika7h (talk) 13:44, 13 April 2016 (UTC)
 * The show credits override the press release so we should go with the actual credits when we have them. If the last name ever becomes an important plot point and not just passing trivia about the character it could be mentioned in the description but the actual heading intro should stick with what is in the credits. Geraldo Perez (talk) 13:54, 13 April 2016 (UTC)
 * Just noting that in "Accidents Will Happen", they have said "Erica King" twice, so I'm assuming the press release was wrong. nyuszika7h (talk) 16:13, 26 April 2016 (UTC)

Last names
I think the fact sheet linked by the IP, which is an official press release from Disney, is a source we can use for "Marisa Clark" (and "Judy Cooper"), just like we did with "Farkle Minkus" for Girl Meets World when it was mentioned in an actual press release. nyuszika7h (talk) 09:55, 27 April 2016 (UTC)
 * Agreed – official press releases are only one step down from onscreen credits, and should count as a reliable (primary) source for character info such as this. --IJBall (contribs • talk) 12:37, 27 April 2016 (UTC)
 * The confusion – as I noticed in 's edit summary on Best Friends Whenever – seems to come from the fact that the page says "Blog" at the top, but if you look at it more closely, it's obvious it's a press release, and it's on an official site. nyuszika7h (talk) 13:24, 27 April 2016 (UTC)
 * This falls under WP:NEWSBLOG since it is on Disney's official site and is a republishing of a press release, not an opinion piece. Lots of sites who meet WP:RS standards for most of their content calls some of their pages blogs, but actually use them as a less formal means of communication. My only concern here is that this press release, like a lot of press releases, conflict with other info such as the official show site version of names. Guest credits would be no problem as the credits in an episode pretty much override anything else, even official words elsewhere, but starring cast character name credits are not listed in any episode so need other official sources for those. If it is desired to have last names for characters in this article, then that reference would be needed, and in my opinion appropriate, to support the info. Geraldo Perez (talk) 13:35, 27 April 2016 (UTC)

Marisa Clark/Miller
"Marisa Miller" was never explicitly mentioned in the episode, it was like this: "A little present from my parents. From the Millers to the Coopers." nyuszika7h (talk) 15:54, 22 June 2016 (UTC)
 * Good catch. Miller is just an assumption then that she shares her last name with her parents. Lots of reasons in real-life where a person has a different name from parents, usually because mom got remarried at some point but the kid didn't get adopted by step-dad. Geraldo Perez (talk) 16:05, 22 June 2016 (UTC)
 * In 'Catch Him If You Can' Ernie and Marisa have a presentation and on the presentation her name was said as 'The Cooper-Miller Family Budget' — Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.82.126.197 (talk) 23:33, 2 February 2018 (UTC)
 * Doesn't necessarily mean Miller is Marisa's last name, per the points made above. MPFitz1968 (talk) 23:37, 2 February 2018 (UTC)

Awards and nominations section
Actually, I am inclined to simply remove this section from the article, as all three "awards" listed are to Zendaya herself (and thus properly belong at the Zendaya page), and none are for the show itself. I don't feel strongly about this, but it's my current opinion. Pinging, for their opinions – --IJBall (contribs • talk) 18:36, 4 July 2016 (UTC)
 * Those awards for Zendaya were for her body of work and her other activities during the year. Not only for her work on this show, although that was obviously a major part of her popularity and this show was created to be a showcase for her. These awards are not awards for this show so, in my opinion, don't belong in the article. Geraldo Perez (talk) 18:45, 4 July 2016 (UTC)

Ernie = Ernest?
Is this a plausible reference for Ernie's real first name being Ernest? The husband part is obviously just a school assignment, but not sure if it's really his real name or just a nickname Marisa made up. nyuszika7h (talk) 14:23, 13 August 2016 (UTC)


 * It is in show dialog with one character who should know talking about another. I expect for continuity reasons that reveal will be honored if it comes up in a future episode. It provides good support that Ernie is a nickname for his formal name of Ernest and conforms with the normal assumptions for those names. However, that is not how he is credited, and that info is passing mention that does not have much real-world value for this level of description. Basically trivia at this point so I don't think it adds much to include it. Geraldo Perez (talk) 14:48, 13 August 2016 (UTC)

WP:DEFINING categories
Before adding categories, please make sure the categories are actually relevant. What constitutes a relevant—or defining—category? Basically, what a series is about and focuses on. In this series' case, for example, it is about spies, not androids. Amaury ( talk &#124; contribs ) 17:14, 13 February 2017 (UTC)

Plot
How does a show with 3 seasons have such a minimal plot section? -- 109.79.85.2 (talk) 01:32, 30 July 2017 (UTC)
 * More importantly, how does it have such terrible introduction section that I need to read the rest of article to know what the show is actually about. Imagine readers don't already know the show, imagine this is an encyclopedia and write to explain it so your grandma would understand it. -- 109.79.85.2 (talk) 01:40, 30 July 2017 (UTC)
 * You can try rewriting or adding to the 'Plot' section. But that section isn't so bad that it needs to be tagged, so I removed the tag from the 'Plot' section. As for the lead, you were reverted after your addition – at that point you needed to come here to make your case. FWIW, I think a sentence along the lines of what you added to the lede is probably warranted, though maybe in not exactly the same form as your addition. P.S. The specific guideline you want to cite on this is WP:TVLEAD... --IJBall (contribs • talk) 01:43, 30 July 2017 (UTC)


 * It is pathetically short for a show with 3 whole seasons. I'd expect a paragraph to introduce the show, and at least a paragraph per season. (Conversely in the unlikely event the show doesn't develop over time and resets after every episode that might be worth mentioning.) I haven't seen the show, I don't plan to see the show but I had hoped this article would tell me a bit more about it so I could know what it is without needing to watch it. You know, like maybe if this was an encyclopedia. -- 02:11, 30 July 2017 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 109.79.85.2 (talk)

Ending
should it be noted that disney channel aired a commercial last week announcing that K.C.U. is ending this week with K.c. undercover the final chapter or should that not be noted until the show actually ends on friday — Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.82.126.197 (talk) 23:16, 31 January 2018 (UTC) So is the issue here is that we only have a tweet from Zendaya reporting that the show is over? Because I found this, which seems to be a WP:RS, reporting that – but, again, it's just rereporting that Zendaya tweeted the show is over. So is the issue here that we are missing an announcement from Disney or the show's exec. producers confirming the show is over?... If so, I suggest this Zendaya thing at least be added to the 'Production' section (citing both the tweet and the People's Choice source) in the short term, as we did with Lab Rats: Elite Force... --IJBall (contribs • talk) 14:06, 2 February 2018 (UTC)
 * Since the production section of this article well-documents that the show is a starring vehicle for Zendaya, I think it safe to consider her words to hold the same weight as a show runner with respect to the show being over. Geraldo Perez (talk) 15:43, 2 February 2018 (UTC)
 * Would acknowledgement from the official Disney Channel twitter about the show ending tonight merit a official statement about show ending. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Xillial (talk • contribs) 23:16, 2 February 2018 (UTC)
 * We still wouldn't change anything until the finale actually airs. Amaury ( talk &#124; contribs ) 22:18, 2 February 2018 (UTC)
 * I dont know if this count as a source but we have this trailer from Disney that started airing last week. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.82.126.197 (talk) 23:29, 2 February 2018 (UTC)


 * It's also worth noting that cable guides (e.g. Spectrum's) are marking tonight's 1-hour episode as a "series finale". That info must be coming directly from Disney. So we can definitely mark this series has done once the finale has aired everywhere. --IJBall (contribs • talk) 03:24, 3 February 2018 (UTC)
 * Agreed. The promo commercial was also stating series finale. Amaury ( talk &#124; contribs ) 04:25, 3 February 2018 (UTC)