Talk:KLM/Archives/2012

Image
Erm, can someone get permission to use a picture of a large KLM plane? I would like to move the FOKKER picture to the KLM Cityhopper article. -- Whispertome


 * No problem. I've moved my Fokker 50 pic to KLM Cityhopper and I'll try to find a new pic to go here soon. I took the Cityhopper pic at London Heathrow.
 * Incidentally, it's nice to identify yourself, just put four tildes at the end as I do.
 * Adrian Pingstone 11:40, 11 Aug 2003 (UTC)

The article title "KLM Royal Dutch Airlines" appears to be inaccurate or redundant. "KLM" is an abbreviation for dutch words that mean "Royal Dutch Airlines", so the name is repeated twice, and the airline itself is called either "KLM" or "Royal Dutch Airlines" rather than both of those together. I'm thinking of moving this back to KLM, since that's the name that's used throughout the article itself, but before I do so I figured I'd ask if anyone had preferences. Bryan 07:18, 13 Nov 2004 (UTC)
 * The most common name is "KLM". The article should be there as per Naming conventions. ed g2s  •  talk  13:44, 15 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Image
I have uploaded a new picture of the KLM logo, it's at: Image:klmlogo2.PNG. Is it better (or worse) than the one already on the article? --Kilo-Lima 21:52, 23 November 2005 (UTC)
 * It's the "same difference", at least the current version goes better with the background colour of the webpage, and indeed matches the logo on aeroplanes. wangi 22:03, 23 November 2005 (UTC)

Name
The article should be called "KLM Royal Dutch Airlines" since that is it's full corporate name

Figures
It would be nice to ad the amount of passengers KLM moves every year.
 * I have added it in; it's 6 million as of 2004. KILO-LIMA 18:04, 25 January 2006 (UTC)

KLM Asia
Just thought I'd explain the rewording I did - the original version implied that flights where made to China etc. 'for political reasons', when the intent as I understand it is to say that these flights would happen regardless, the political aspect explains why its KLM Asia rather than KLM the parent. The word order change reflects this (just the pedantic grammar guy in me coming out) Bridesmill 02:29, 1 April 2006 (UTC)

jbubgyugyufuyh —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.169.204.8 (talk) 15:58, 11 December 2010 (UTC)

737-800 & 900 Orders
Recent anon edit implied there is lack of certainty in these orders - does anyone have reasonably firm info? Thanks Bridesmill 14:22, 13 April 2006 (UTC)

Fleet
Significant fleet numbers disagreement between here and the nl: article [] - any thoughts, comments? (don't really need to speak nl to read their figs).Bridesmill 22:25, 9 May 2006 (UTC)

KLM has 107 aircrafts not 181

Airbus A330-200          9 (1 order) Boeing 737-300          14 Boeing 737-400          13 Boeing 737-700             (10 orders) Boeing 737-800          15 (7 orders Boeing 737-900            5 Boeing 747-400           22 Boeing 747-400ERF         4 Boeing 777-200ER         15 Boeing 777-300ER            (4 orders) McDonnell-Douglas MD-11  10

107 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 217.65.21.76 (talk • contribs)


 * According to the website of KLM, they currently have the following fleet (this is the same reference as is used in the article):

And no B737-700's and E190's (yet). I know they are renewing their short/medium-short haul fleet - phasing out a part of their Fokker 100's, recieving some younger Fokker 100's from Air France, introducing new E190's and ultimately phasing out all their Fokker aircrafts, but can anyone give me the URL for the latest numbers for this fleet renewal? Also their wide-body fleet does not correspond to the numbers on their website. Can anyone give me another URL which is more up to date? Schalkcity (talk) 20:58, 24 January 2009 (UTC)


 * I would suggest that the list above is out of date as at least two Embraer 190s are operating as referenced in the article, the only reliable reference is the official aircraft register of the Netherlands . MilborneOne (talk) 21:18, 24 January 2009 (UTC)

The fleet of KLM Cityhopper must be included on this page. KLM Cityhopper is an integral part of KLM, unlike many regional arms of other airlines. Also on the official KLM site, all aircraft are listed, including the KLM Cityhopper aircraft. Schalkcity (talk) 15:20, 14 May 2009 (UTC)

History
I have added a significant amount of information to the "history" section of KLM, as well as some longhaul travel class info. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.140.113.174 (talk • contribs) 17:13, 18 August 2006

One thing re: history - should it even say the airline stopped operating in WWII? In addition to the Caribbean ops KLM did fly from England along with BOAC. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Dan.c.webb (talk • contribs) 13:38, 2 January 2009 (UTC)

KLM 747-800?
Since when did KLM order 2 747-800. I haven't heard any news about this. Blau 22:51, 20 August 2006 (UTC)


 * Have you a source for the order it not mentioned here or in the 747-800 article ? MilborneOne 22:27, 9 July 2007 (UTC)

Page Name
Please do not move the page back. The infobox and the first paragraph of the article should say "KLM Royal Dutch Airlines". However, Wikipedia policy is to use common names in article titles. In this case, that would be KLM, not the full name. Similarly, the Lufthansa article isn't "Deutsche Lufthansa AG". DB (talk) 07:08, 11 November 2006 (UTC)

KLM Asia
I have merged the KLM Asia article into the main KLM article. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.140.113.174 (talk • contribs) 15:40, 29 August 2006

KLM is using spam as a marketing method
No section for "critics"? ;-)

I just got spammed by KLM. The email is in Norwegian, with the end note: "this is a one-time posting, no need to unsubscribe" :-( I copied out the actual email as http://www.cs.uit.no/~tobias/klm-spam.txt

I'll google a bit around in the next days, if I find any good references, I think I'll add such a section. tobixen 20:06, 1 December 2006 (UTC)

Royal French Airlines?
I don't think so... reverted to Dutch 212.35.97.195 09:05, 13 December 2006 (UTC)
 * Bienvenue á Republique Francaise!--82.134.28.194 (talk) 11:34, 7 December 2010 (UTC)

In flight entertainment
One of the sections say "The Boeing 747-400 and McDonnell Douglas MD-11 aircraft are being configured with the new World Business Class seats as well as new inflight entertainment in economy, although this upgrade will not include personal televisions in economy."

Please clarify what the IFE in economy will feature if there will actually be an upgrade. --124.106.135.197 02:20, 28 January 2007 (UTC)

KLM's narrowbody aircraft do NOT feature in-flight entertainment in Economy Class. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 128.143.231.41 (talk • contribs) 00:50, 12 April 2007

Boeing 737-700 Order
The order from KLM for Boeing 737-700s is for 7 firm orders and 7 options. It is not 10 orders and 7 options. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.20.62.117 (talk • contribs) 17:45, 10 August 2007

suggestion: mention KSSU group
When the DC-10 entered service, there was a cooperative maintainance agreement among 4 airlines, KLM, SAS, Sabena, and UTA. It was informally called KSSU (that's not an abbreviation that I made up). Archtrain 19:13, 11 August 2007 (UTC) Sabena was part of Atlas Group. Swissair was a member of KSSU. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.144.166.236 (talk) 02:13, 24 September 2007 (UTC)

Incidents and Accidents
KLM Flight 867 - Adamcu added this awhile ago but had "flew through a thin layer of clouds" as a summary and someone reverted it. The summary was a bit misleading but the actual incident occured. The thin layer of clouds was the start of a volcanic plume that caused nearly US$250 million in damage but without fatailities and a safe landing. I just wanted to make sure credit is given where credit is due. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Spryde (talk • contribs) 10:51, 12 September 2007 (UTC)

Free tickets to South Africa?
I've heard that, from the Netherlands, the plane tickets to South Africa are free. Is it true? 24.202.204.189 01:05, 20 September 2007 (UTC)
 * I find it hard to believe that any airline would ever offer completely free tickets. And I even tried to book a flight on KLM from the Netherlands to South Africa and it definitely had a price. NcSchu( Talk ) 02:44, 20 September 2007 (UTC)
 * I misunderstood the person who said that. She actually meant that it would cost like 200-300$ less to go to the Netherlands and buy tickets to South Africa there than going directly to South Africa. 24.202.204.189 (talk) 23:47, 6 December 2007 (UTC)

Cityhopper
IP user keeps adding the Cityhopper fleet to this article. It has an article of its own and is a separate airline. Please explain why the fleets should be combined on this page. Should we add all the other KLM aircraft to the Cityhopper page ! MilborneOne 19:41, 27 September 2007 (UTC)

So what IS notable?
Curious as to why "On Saturday, April 28 2007, KLM received its new and final 777-200ER from Boeing. Its registration is PH-BQP, with the name on the front that says 'Pont Du Gard'. " was rm as 'non-notable' when articles such as Singapore Airlines fleet list every single delivery and every single bort # in the fleet? Bridesmill 15:46, 27 October 2007 (UTC)


 * It is a WikiProject Airlines consensus not to include aircraft registrations in airline articles. It is also my opinion that the information is not notable in the long history of the airline, what was the last 747 or Lockheed Electra delivered etc. We cant list in an encylopedia the first or last delivery of every aircraft - they are specialised websites that spend a lot of time and effort doing that. Nobody has got round to changing Singapore Airlines fleet. MilborneOne 21:50, 3 November 2007 (UTC)


 * So we will rely on the rest ofthe internet to be the repository of history? In spite f the wealth of specialized websites out there, try digging up details more than 20 years old out there - this stuff 'dissappears' because everybody says 'let somebody else do the work'. I wasn't aware that we were limiting ourselves to a superficial view of things here. Bridesmill 23:14, 3 November 2007 (UTC)


 * I beg to differ they are lots of websites and books detailing the history of every airliner built, this is an encyclopedia and there is lots of stuff that is not dealt with. KLM have operated a lot of aircraft in nearly 90-years I am not sure why one particular 777 is more notable than any other aircraft operated. MilborneOne 23:26, 3 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Right off the top, try finding English language historical detail on PH-AJU "Uiver", (the original, not the repro); and will someof these sites (even the dutch ones) last, as a lot are personal?. I could WP:NOT as well in terms of beans, paper encyclopedias, and soapbox. This is not the case of 'one particular aircraft', its a question of tail numbers; nobody complained about them here before, and it appears that re. Singapore Airlines the decision was notquite what you imply above.Bridesmill 23:49, 3 November 2007 (UTC)


 * The original text was removed because in my opinion it was not notable, nothing to do with registrations, nothing to do with Singapore Airlines. MilborneOne 17:53, 4 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Comparing PH-AJU with PH-BQP is quite a stretch to be honest. It's very difficult for me to believe that the last 777-200ER delivered to KLM (up until this point, KLM could always order more) would ever be something for the history books. NcSchu( Talk ) 18:09, 4 November 2007 (UTC)

MAA-CDG
Does KLM fly from Chennai to Paris? It has been listed as a destination. I just know that Air France operates the route or you have to go thru its hub in AMS to get there. Bucs2004 (talk) 21:43, 10 December 2007 (UTC)
 * I would guess through Amsterdam, but then again, this is not KLM flight schedule page. Try KLM itself for that. Arnoutf (talk) 17:34, 11 April 2008 (UTC)

Absolutly?

 * Airbus


 * Airbus A319-100 ...........................................57 .............Triebwerke Kerosintank pro Tonne?
 * Airbus A320-200 ...........................................82 .............Triebwerke Kerosintank pro Tonne?
 * Airbus A330-200 ...........................................11 ............Triebwerke Kerosintank pro Tonne?
 * Airbus A330-300X ........................................21 ............Triebwerke Kerosintank pro Tonne?


 * Boeing


 * Boeing 737-300 ............................................14 .............Triebwerke Kerosintank pro Tonne?
 * Boeing 737-400 ............................................13 ..............Triebwerke Kerosintank pro Tonne?
 * Boeing 737-800 ........................................... 88 ..............Triebwerke Kerosintank pro Tonne?
 * Boeing 737-900 ..............................................5 .............Triebwerke Kerosintank pro Tonne?
 * Boeing 747-200B ............................................2 ..............Triebwerke Kerosintank pro Tonne?
 * Boeing 747-200SF ..........................................2 .............Triebwerke Kerosintank pro Tonne?
 * Boeing 747-200F ..........................................11 .............Triebwerke Kerosintank pro Tonne?
 * Boeing 747-400 ............................................38 ..............Triebwerke Kerosintank pro Tonne?
 * Boeing 757-200 ..........................................183 ..............Triebwerke Kerosintank pro Tonne?
 * Boeing 757-300 ............................................16 .............Triebwerke Kerosintank pro Tonne?
 * Boeing 767-300ER ......................................59 ..............Triebwerke Kerosintank pro Tonne?
 * Boeing 767-400ER .......................................21 ..............Triebwerke Kerosintank pro Tonne?
 * Boeing 777-200 .......................................... 23 ...............Triebwerke Kerosintank pro Tonne?
 * Boeing 777-200LR ........................................1 ..............Triebwerke Kerosintank pro Tonne?
 * Boeing 777-300 ............................................2  ..............Triebwerke Kerosintank pro Tonne?


 * McDonnell Douglas MD


 * McDonnell Douglas MD-11 ........................10 ...............Triebwerke Kerosintank pro Tonne?
 * McDonnell Douglas MD-88 ........................117  ...........Triebwerke Kerosintank pro Tonne?
 * McDonnell Douglas MD-90 .......................16 ...............Triebwerke Kerosintank pro Tonne?


 * 585.000.000 Dollar Kerosinrechnungplus


 * http://www.sueddeutsche.de/wirtschaft/artikel/368/170867/ —Preceding unsigned comment added by 193.40.193.11 (talk) 12:59, 24 April 2008 (UTC)

KLM hubs?
Is Schiphol KLM's only hub? I heard that Paris, London, Mnachester, Houston, Aberdeen and Dallas were to become focus cities? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Murphy93 (talk • contribs) 22:28, 10 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Jup Schiphol is the only hub. Note that european air traffic is of different organisation compared to n-american Arnoutf (talk) 10:15, 16 October 2008 (UTC)

NEW Slogan!
KLM's new slogan is 'Journeys of Inspiration', it is featured on their new advert. Thanks. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 90.211.38.185 (talk • contribs) 17:40, 16 October 2008


 * Are you sure the website still says The Reliable Airline. MilborneOne (talk) 18:17, 16 October 2008 (UTC)
 * I think the slogan is only part of that campaign, as far as I know not the lasting slogan to be associated with the airline. Arnoutf (talk) 23:55, 16 October 2008 (UTC)

Economy Comfort
I added this new section but didn't bother to mention this in the discussion since I included a reliable source (klm website). Since it's been more than a year that anything was added on the discussion page here's a new section! Anyone who thinks Economy Comfort should be left out, or adjusted? 82.74.193.75 (talk) 01:15, 4 December 2009 (UTC)

Fleet renewal
Here is a part from the internal KLM journal 'De Wolkenridder' (the knight (ridder) of the coulds (wolken)) from 16 June 2010:

"Zondagochtend landde de nieuwe KLM Boeing 737-700, PH-BGK “Noordse Stormvogel”, in het Engels “Fulmar”, op Schiphol. Dit is de zevende 737-700 van de achttien 737-700s die KLM besteld heeft. De aanschaf van dit type toestel maakt deel uit van het vlootvernieuwingsprogramma dat is gestart in 2002. In september en december 2010 staan de afleveringen van nog twee 737s gepland. De september aflevering is een -700, de aflevering in december wordt een -800. In 2011 worden in totaal nog elf vliegtuigen afgeleverd waaronder één Boeing 737-800. De toestellen vervangen de huidige Boeing 737-300 en 737-400 waarmee de vlootvernieuwing wordt afgerond. Alle toestellen in deze lijn krijgen vogelnamen."

Translation: The new KLM Boeing 737-700, PH-BGK "Noordse Stormvogel", in English "Fulmar", landed at Schiphol on Sunday morning. This is the seventh 737-700 out of eightteen 737-700s that have been ordered by KLM. The purchase of this aircraft type is part of the fleet renewal programme that started in 2002. The delivery of another two 737s is scheduled for September and December 2010. The delivery in September is a -700, the delivery in December will be a -800. A total of 11 aircraft will be delivered in 2011, out of which one is a Boeing 737-800. The aircraft will replace the current Boeing 737-300 and 737-400, finalizing the fleet renewal. All aircraft of this order will recieve bird names.

So, a total of 18 B737-700s have been ordered, 7 have already been delivered, 1 will be delivered in September 2010), and the last 10 will be delivered in 2011. In December 2010 one Boeing 737-800 will be delivered and in 2011 another one will be delivered. Schalkcity (talk) 09:43, 1 September 2010 (UTC)

Over-photography
This article, as it currently stands, has way too many "pretty pictures of planes" that seem to be included simply because they exist. While a smattering of plane pictures, particularly as they relate to the text, seems sensible and appropriate, this is overdoing it. Wikipedia is not Flickr. --Piledhigheranddeeper (talk) 15:31, 7 October 2010 (UTC)

Starting january 31, 2011, Blue1 will commence operations to Amsterdam Airport from Helsinki-Vantaa airport. Finnair already flies on this route, meaning KLM will face two other airlines on the route, so I added Helsinki-Vantaa to that list.

Stockholm-Arlanda on the other hand, that's a different story. Somebody please enlighten me which other airlines fly the ARN - AMS route, except for SAS & KLM? Norwegian doesn't...

82.201.36.22 (talk) 11:27, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

Fokker 70
Why is the Fokker 70 not listed on the Current fleet or the Past fleet? There is even a picture of a Fokker 70? 90.209.11.56 (talk) 19:38, 19 November 2011 (UTC)
 * Because KLM has never operated the Fokker 70, the image is to represent KLM Cityhopper which does operate them. MilborneOne (talk) 20:32, 19 November 2011 (UTC)

Codeshare partners
I'm missing several codeshare partners, such as UX and HV for certain mediterranean destinations, SU to SVO (and maybe other destinations in Russia, I don't know) and KQ and PW to several African destinations. I don't have a complete list of codeshare partners that was made publicly available by KLM or other sources and don't know where to find one, but I'm pretty sure this list is incomplete.82.74.193.75 (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 22:19, 2 January 2012 (UTC).