Talk:Kalākaua/Archive 1

add?
someone should write up something about this recording: http://www.kitv.com/news/21719127/detail.html —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.86.63.167 (talk) 22:00, 25 November 2009 (UTC)

moves
as per Wiki convention re article titles for sovereign monarchs; I disagree that the country names should not be used; country names are used for even the most tiny, minor principality in Mitteleuropa ... Hawaii should be given its proper designation (as should Japan) Mowens35 22:37, 26 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Great work on expanding this and other Hawaiian history articles, especially by Gerald Farinas!

I'm putting a copy of the earlier illustration used in this article here in talk. I'm glad Wikipedia now has a better image of him here (in addition to the photograph at Republic of Hawaii), but since I scanned the below from an original 19th century source, I'm putting it here in case someone might find some other use for it sometime, rather than leaving the image apparently orphaned. Cheers, -- Infrogmation 22:54, 6 Jul 2004 (UTC)

I reverted anon taking the text to the name "Kalakaua" by cut & paste. Do not attempt to "move" pages to new titles this way; use the "move page" feature, otherwise article history and atribution is lost. It may also be a good idea to discuss on the talk page first if you think a page should be at another title. -- Infrogmation 21:31, 9 Jul 2004 (UTC)
 * See also Naming conventions (names and titles) about conventions for listing monarchs. -- Infrogmation

I think the Hawaiian monarchy should use the names they adopted upon assuming the crown (i.e., Kalakaua instead of his legal name David Kalakaua). And based on what I've read from the Naming conventions (names and titles) article, at the very bottom there is a provision for non-European and non-Western names. As the Hawaiian monarchy is a non-European and non-Western royal family with names unique only to Hawai'i, I don't think they need the "of Hawaii" designation at the end of their Wikipedia titles. It should be titled just as the Chinese and Japanese royal names are titled on Wikipedia, without the country designation at the end. Again, see Hirohito and Akihito as examples. Sure, it makes sense for the European names to be labeled in that manner because their names are used in numerous countries. But the Hawaiian names, like the Chinese and Japanese royal names, are unique and have no need for the "of Hawaii" designation in the title. Anyway, that's what I think. --James Easton 20:51, 13 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Discussion was posted at the talk page of the naming conventions article: Hawaiian Monarchy Names Discussion


 * I think I kinda agree. --Keev


 * For the record I have no objection to moving the names. I reverted anon's moves mostly because they were done improperly by copy & paste rather than proper use of "move article" feature. A secondary objection of mine was because it seemed to have been done unilaterally without proper discussion. If consensus is to move and an admin is needed to delete any redirects during the moving process, I'll be happy to help if asked. -- Infrogmation 21:38, 13 Jul 2004 (UTC)


 * agree it´s disrespectful (and incorrect actually, even per Wikipedia rules) to just simply call him Kalakaua. it should either be King Kalakaua of Hawai'i, or Kalakaua, King of Hawai'i. Antares911 14:36, 18 Jun 2005 (UTC)


 * Oppose te move. Simplicity in headings is best. No need to include anything else than Kalakaua 217.140.193.123 6 July 2005 16:47 (UTC)


 * Kalakaua of Hawaii for me --Henrygb 19:14, 17 July 2005 (UTC)

It was requested that Kalakaua be moved to either Kalakaua of Hawai'i, Kalakaua, King of Hawai'i, or King Kalakaua of Hawai'i. I among others oppose such moves. As can be read above, the requests received opposition and the poll went stale. Requests denied. Arrigo 12:49, 26 August 2005 (UTC)


 * Instead of having to place opinions on multiple pages, we should follow the example of the users over at the Japan manual of style pages and move all related discussions to one place. Thus, I'm requesting that we move all discussions about the naming conventions of Hawaiian monarchs to Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Hawaii/Manual of Style. &#38738;&#12356;(Aoi) 06:26, 27 August 2005 (UTC)

Royal consorts and monarchs
hi there. i´m trying to get a discussion going to change the rules on naming consorts, monarchs, etc.. it´s a bit of mess at the moment. maybe you wanna join in and give your opinion? feel free cheers Antares911 23:50, 21 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Removed section
I removed the following section from the article because it really didn't belong where it was posted and the information in the section could easily be found in other parts of the article.

general info

 * He was King Kalakaua. Also known as “The Merrie Monarch”. he reigned February 12, 1874 - January 20, 1891. Name: David Laamea Kamanakapuu Mahinulani Nalaiaehuokalani Lumialani Kalākaua. He was born November 12, 1836 in Honolulu Hawaii. His parents were Kapaakea and Keohokalole. Married to Kapiolani.

No children. Died January 20, 1891.

...Um, Early Life?
Where is it? Ulgar 17:23, 14 October 2007 (UTC)

Removed section
I removed the following text. I found it inappropriate for the the page.

A man identified as Clement was arrested at the Los Angeles International Airport and charged with destruction of public propert and airport rules violations. He claimed to be the nephew of Kalakaua I while being booked by the Clark County Detention Center. His booking was shown on the tv show Jail, season 1, episode 21 which aired May 06, 2008 —Preceding unsigned comment added by Waipahu96797 (talk • contribs) 13:41, 19 July 2008 (UTC)

Why was featured picture removed?
It looks like Kingdavidkalakaua dust.jpg was replaced with Kalakaua.jpg with no talk page discussion nor edit summary. The new one seems to be a retouching of the featured photo, made to de-emphasize the uniform and make his features look more caucasian. I disagree with this, and think that unless a good reason for removing the featured picture is given, we should restore it. W Nowicki (talk) 21:46, 27 December 2010 (UTC)
 * Yes. I agree too. I wouldn't say it look more Causcasian though. I'll revert it.--KAVEBEAR (talk) 22:08, 27 December 2010 (UTC)

Thanks. I was talking about the hair and whiskers that seemed to be straightened out. Perhaps I should not have speculated a motive. Also note I updatedKingdavidkalakaua.jpg with Kingdavidkalakaua dust.jpg so that the other language wikipedias get the cleaned up image. Someone can always get the original through the version mechanism. If it were me, I would remove the _dust version and fix references to go back to the more descriptive name of the picture rather than the version. However, that might cause some havoc with the featured picture mechanism, so we can keep both I suppose.

The painting is also probably copyrighted, since source is not given (was grandfathered in from long ago?).

There are other good pictures of him. Longer term, of course, the solution is to beef up the text in the body, so that more pictures can be included at various events described therein. But one thing at a time. W Nowicki (talk) 22:34, 27 December 2010 (UTC)


 * The image shown in Kingdavidkalakaua dust.jpg is high res (4,352 × 5,208 pixels) and its detail wildly exceeds that shown in Kalakaua.jpg (487 × 691 pixels). Whether he looks caucasoid or betazoid in the higher-res picture, it obviously shows the man’s appearance faithfully and quite clearly. If his hair was straightened out, I seriously doubt it was because the photographer was presumptuous enough to have some makeup artists tell the king how he should do his hair; the king no-doubt did his hair that way because he thought it looked nice for a formal portrait of him in his kingly finest. We might also forgive the king for taking a moment to comb is beard before his sitting. Greg L (talk) 23:46, 27 December 2010 (UTC)
 * The higher res pic appears to be the better pic to use, IMHO.--Epeefleche (talk) 00:53, 30 December 2010 (UTC)

File:Kingdavidkalakaua dust.jpg to appear as POTD soon
Hello! This is a note to let the editors of this article know that File:Kingdavidkalakaua dust.jpg will be appearing as picture of the day on February 12, 2012. You can view and edit the POTD blurb at Template:POTD/2012-02-12. If this article needs any attention or maintenance, it would be preferable if that could be done before its appearance on the Main Page so Wikipedia doesn't look bad. :) Thanks! — howcheng  {chat} 20:56, 11 February 2012 (UTC)

Nice...too bad it's horribly inaccurate. Kalakaua didn't become King after Kamehameha V. William Lunalilo did.--Mark Miller (talk) 00:25, 24 May 2014 (UTC)

Legacy
Removed section. Most things stated here are reliable but the sources are not. Need to update them before readding: "He befriended American inventor Thomas Edison, with whom he discussed the lightbulb, which he later used to light up Iolani Palace. Also an inventor, Kalakaua invented an improved double screw and an improved bottle stopper and cover in 1872 he proposed a new type of fish ram in 1875. He even proposed to build a torpedo-proof vessel in 1872. He wrote to Emperor Pedro II of Brazil on September 19, 1872 for funds to build such a vessel. Dom Pedro was interested in the young Kalākaua, but not enough to invest money in his invention. Kalākaua then wrote to Queen Victoria." --KAVEBEAR (talk) 21:57, 15 June 2014 (UTC)

2017 improvements
King Kalākaua's world tour is requested to run on the Main Page as a DYK hook on January 22. The article is otherwise being reviewed for Featured Article status. It's likely to draw readers to this article, which is not in terrific shape. I'll be working on this off and on. Any help is appreciated. — Maile (talk) 15:39, 7 January 2017 (UTC)

Size
Size-wise, this article is getting huge, too huge for anyone to read all the details, much less review. And every time I think maybe we got the basic story, I see big gaps in the narrative. We still have to fill in of what happened in between the Bayonet Constitution and Kalakaua's death. I think maybe the Reform cabinet fell under its own corrpution/incompetence, but that takes more than one or two sentences. So, maybe we could take some of this to separate articles, with just a briefer recap in this article. Maybe the youth education section and/or the coinage section. And while I haven't thought about how to shrink it, maybe the world tour section doesn't need to be so large, considering it already has its own article. Thoughts? — Maile (talk) 00:41, 30 January 2017 (UTC)
 * I agree. There is a lot of stuff here that don't necessarily sound like a biography and can be trimmed which I was hesitant to criticize until now especially the education program section. For example, there is no need to go into the biographical information about the students in my opinion at least here in Kalakaua's biography. Listing the countries and most important figures (i.e. the first three Italian ones and the nephews seemed the most relevant. Creating a separate article for the more detailed section would be recommended. Also the Kamehameha Statues section has some of the same problem, it telling us what's already in the other articles instead of what it has to do with Kalakaua himself, i.e. his and Gibson's ordering of it, why it matter (centennial of Cooke) and the part about him unveiling the two statues later. --KAVEBEAR (talk) 00:50, 30 January 2017 (UTC)
 * Also there is a lot of biographical information explaining who Gibson was that I feel can be condensed to a few sentences. The extra stuff is what the link is there for. --KAVEBEAR (talk) 00:52, 30 January 2017 (UTC)


 * Going forward, don't hesitate for a minute to express your opinion about anything in this article. It's very helpful for you to be a balancing editor here. I don't have a problem breaking some of this out into their own articles.  Not all separate articles have to be, FA or GA quality, just good enough not to be tagged. — Maile  (talk) 00:56, 30 January 2017 (UTC)
 * What do you think about these changes? I feel like the articles about the Kamehameha Statues are enough and most of the information don't fit in a biography about Kalakaua. --KAVEBEAR (talk) 01:29, 30 January 2017 (UTC)


 * Your changes are fine with me. — Maile (talk) 01:37, 30 January 2017 (UTC)


 * Maybe tomorrow if I have time, I can move most of the Reciprocity Treaty details to its existing article, and shorten up what is in this article about it. — Maile (talk) 02:22, 30 January 2017 (UTC)

Source for military
Kuykendall 1967: Military organization, 5, 13, 206, 345, 352, 403, 404, 410-411, 421, 431, 432n, 465-466, 722 (n. 107), 606; "Royal Guards, " "Leleiohoku Guard" (cavalry), "Prince's Own" (artillery), "Hawaiian Guards" (infantry), 13; in 1886, "Honolulu Rifles, " "King's Own, " "Queen's Own, " "Prince's Own, " "Mamalahoa Guard, " "King's Household Guards, " 350-352


 * I'm glad you added this section. I know you asked me about the Military Act back in January.  One thing that has been in my mind since I began working on articles about Kalakaua is his focus on the military.  When we see the images of hm, most are in a military uniform. When he made that trip around the world, he was always touring military schools, military arsenals, military everything that was available to him.  And as ill-received as his Polynesian confederation ended up being, it was not a bad idea in theory, just badly executed.  That was a time period when powerful nations were gobbling up everything.  England had most of southeast Asia as its colonies, Germany was gobbling up the Pacific nations, the United States had just acquired its entire southwest by taking a large part of Mexico in a war, and was aiming to annex Hawaii.  Polynesia should have had a protectorate from its own culture, but there was none strong enough.  Kalakaua had a good idea, but he made bad choices in the people he listened to. — Maile  (talk) 02:18, 10 February 2017 (UTC)
 * Yeah definitely. His critics often consider his ideas too grandiose and expensive for the relative small size of the kingdom and even decades before during Kamehameha V's reign you have Mark Twain sarcastically calling Hawaii, a nation "playing empire". He definitely seem to emulate the ceremonial aspects of the Prussian style militaristic nationalism he saw in Germany, Japan and other nations in Europe and wanted to recreate it back home--KAVEBEAR (talk) 02:30, 10 February 2017 (UTC)


 * http://imagesofoldhawaii.com/the-third-warning-voice/



1887 act?



Timeline on the coma and death

 * Kuykendall (page 473) says he died on January 20, and "the last two days the king was unconscious. ", which would mean he fell into the coma on January 18. Kuykendall doesn't use the word "coma".


 * pp 292-293 - Never mentions Santa Barbara or the stroke. This says that "by early January" in SF he was becoming lethargic. On January 14, he insisted on attending his lodge initiation in SF, and was given Vin Mariani to get him on his feet. He went to his initiation and was back in an hour.  The "next morning" would have been Jan 15, he elapsed into his coma after breakfast.  It still says he died on Jan 20.  But this has him in a coma for five days. The source Karpiel used for this was the actual medical report from Dr. Woods. P. 394 is an image of his Jan 14 certification of his lodge initiation. — Maile  (talk) 22:53, 27 February 2017 (UTC)
 * pp 292-293 - Never mentions Santa Barbara or the stroke. This says that "by early January" in SF he was becoming lethargic. On January 14, he insisted on attending his lodge initiation in SF, and was given Vin Mariani to get him on his feet. He went to his initiation and was back in an hour.  The "next morning" would have been Jan 15, he elapsed into his coma after breakfast.  It still says he died on Jan 20.  But this has him in a coma for five days. The source Karpiel used for this was the actual medical report from Dr. Woods. P. 394 is an image of his Jan 14 certification of his lodge initiation. — Maile  (talk) 22:53, 27 February 2017 (UTC)

External links modified
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Kalakaua
The article states " The new constitution was nicknamed the Bayonet Constitution because of the duress under which it was signed. His sister Liliuokalani stated in Hawaii's Story that her brother was convinced that if he didn't sign, he would be assassinated. She wrote that he no longer knew who was friend or foe, felt betrayed by people he once trusted, and had told her that everywhere he went he was under constant surveillance.[108]" So he wasn't 'forced', but maybe 'pressured' is too lax. Can you think of a middle ground? Thanks ‡ Єl Cid, Єl Caɱ̩peador  ᐐT₳LKᐬ  17:59, 31 July 2017 (UTC)
 * I would suggest you take this to the article's talk page. — Maile (talk) 18:02, 31 July 2017 (UTC)

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 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20170202073421/https://hanahou.slickage.com/articles/1575 to https://hanahou.slickage.com/articles/1575

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Allen
All these are basically copied passages from

http://www.usgwarchives.net/hi/koc.htm
 * http://files.usgwarchives.net/hi/keepers/koc61.txt
 * http://files.usgwarchives.net/hi/keepers/koc62.txt
 * http://files.usgwarchives.net/hi/keepers/koc63.txt
 * http://files.usgwarchives.net/hi/keepers/koc64.txt
 * http://files.usgwarchives.net/hi/keepers/koc65.txt
 * http://files.usgwarchives.net/hi/keepers/koc66.txt
 * http://files.usgwarchives.net/hi/keepers/koc67.txt
 * http://files.usgwarchives.net/hi/keepers/koc68.txt
 * http://files.usgwarchives.net/hi/keepers/koc69.txt
 * http://files.usgwarchives.net/hi/keepers/koc70.txt
 * http://files.usgwarchives.net/hi/keepers/koc71.txt
 * http://files.usgwarchives.net/hi/keepers/koc72.txt
 * http://files.usgwarchives.net/hi/keepers/koc73.txt
 * http://files.usgwarchives.net/hi/keepers/koc74.txt
 * http://files.usgwarchives.net/hi/keepers/koc75.txt

Hawaiian suffrage in 1887
I think I've been perpetuating a falsehood. Suffrage for poor Hawaiians was withheld universally. It was only for voting on the House of Nobles. Any Hawaiians, American and European which meet certain non-property based requirements could vote for membership in the House of Representatives. KAVEBEAR (talk) 04:38, 27 August 2018 (UTC)


 * Are you referring to the Bayonet Constitution, or before (or after) it was signed? Not something I've delved into extensively, but here's at least one source on the issue:
 * Bayonet Constitution, 47–48, 74–75, 159, 234–235, 237–238, 238–239
 * Bayonet Constitution, 47–48, 74–75, 159, 234–235, 237–238, 238–239


 * — Maile (talk) 12:27, 27 August 2018 (UTC)
 * Fixed it. Just wanted to note it.KAVEBEAR (talk) 16:03, 27 August 2018 (UTC)

Hui Hooulu a Hoola La Hui of Kalakaua I

 * Organized February 19, 1874, by Likelike.  Appears to be a charitable organization.  The Hoola and Hooulu Lahui Society was represented by 400 persons in Kalakaua's funeral procession in Hawaii. — Maile  (talk) 20:11, 25 September 2018 (UTC)
 * Organized February 19, 1874, by Likelike.  Appears to be a charitable organization.  The Hoola and Hooulu Lahui Society was represented by 400 persons in Kalakaua's funeral procession in Hawaii. — Maile  (talk) 20:11, 25 September 2018 (UTC)