Talk:Kamala Khan/Archive 1

First Appearance
Article states that her first appearance is in Captain Marvel #17, which is widely accepted as true. However, there is a growing body of evidence that Khan has appeared previously. The author explicitly stated on her personal blog that Khan has appeared prior to #17 (see: http://kellysue.tumblr.com/post/66156771998/make-sure-you-pick-up-captain-marvel-17-tomorrow-for), and other bloggers believe that they have spotted Khan in Captain Marvel #14 (for example: http://muslim-ms-marvel.tumblr.com/post/66189003046/apparently-kamala-is-in-enemy-within).

The author's own statements prove that #17 isn't technically Khan's very first appearance. I am not sure if the other evidence is enough to definitively state that #14 is Khan's first appearance, but this is worth looking into for accuracy. 184.20.61.21 (talk) 09:41, 15 November 2013 (UTC)

Updated: I'm not much of a wiki editor and I'm afraid I'll mess the page up somehow, but it has now been confirmed by the Captain Marvel author that Ms. Khan appears in Captain Marvel #14. (http://dcwomenkickingass.tumblr.com/post/67178265759/the-real-first-appearance-of-the-new-ms-marvel-in This article at this link also links to an interview wherein the author confirms; the relevant podcast on that site is dated Nov. 18 2013). If anyone is a more experienced wiki editor than I am and wants to tackle this, I think it is now pretty much official that #14 is the true first appearance. 184.20.61.21 (talk) 06:49, 23 November 2013 (UTC)


 * ✅.--TriiipleThreat (talk) 21:43, 6 December 2013 (UTC)

In-unverserse description
It seems, to me, that this article is missing a lot of things about the character biography that other comic-book characters' articles include. How she got her powers, what they do, and her general history inside her fictional universe. These are things I love to find out on wikipedia. Could anybody help add some of this to the article? Thank you in advance. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.92.244.192 (talk) 17:31, 27 March 2015 (UTC)
 * This is currently a WP:Good article and as such we are attempt to describe the character from a WP:Real world perspective. Unfortunately most character articles wrongly use an in-universe perspective. However her powers and their origin are described in the article. If you are looking solely for detailed plot information, I suggest reading the comics themselves, looking it up at the Marvel Database or other fan sites.--TriiipleThreat (talk) 17:59, 27 March 2015 (UTC)
 * The anonymous contributor is right about the need of Kamala Khan's biography since the publication history doesn't list how she got her powers and what her exploits as a superhero are like which included her fight against the Inventor (a villainous clone of Thomas Edison). We need to detail the full history like the one I started in light of her involvement of the Secret Wars storyline. Any objections on this? --Rtkat3 (talk) 20:30, 19 June 2015 (UTC)
 * The PH section does state how she got her powers and talks about the Inventor and her involvement in Secret Wars. What it doesn't do give excess in-universe details.--TriiipleThreat (talk) 23:16, 19 June 2015 (UTC)

Ms. Marvel volume 3
I have the third trade and it does in fact include S.H.I.E.L.D. #2, a story featuring Kamala. In fact, the only Ms. Marvel Annual that seems to exist is a Carol Danvers issue from 2008. I know what our sources say, but in this case it's wrong. Reach Out to the Truth 15:01, 28 August 2015 (UTC)


 * Thanks for the clarification.--TriiipleThreat (talk) 15:55, 28 August 2015 (UTC)

In other media
Several months back the Creative Executive for Marvel made a statement regarding how comic book characters are chosen to be developed in other media. In so doing, he verified that what is popular with fans is what the studio/company pursues in an expansive manner. What this also gives insight into is what the future holds for the studio. In the same interview, he also states that the Kamala Khan incarnation of Ms. Marvel will be further developed into other media in the near future. With persistent 'rumors (for now)' and 'leaks' that Marvel is developing a Ms. Marvel TV series with John Ridley, and the reports that she will be expanded upon, some sort of information regarding said interview could and should be included on the page. The character in one way or another is important to the future of the company, and so this could be insightful and is definitely constructive.--DisneyMetalhead (talk) 01:45, 29 July 2017 (UTC)
 * Just glancing at the edit history here and see that User:50.232.205.246 had added something about this earlier today, and immediately User:TriiipleThreat removed the edit. The latter has stated that the source provided is 'invalid'. I have seen Screenrant used multiple places elsewhere and is a mainstream/big-name entertainment reporting establishment. Why would it be regarded as such?--DisneyMetalhead (talk) 01:45, 29 July 2017 (UTC)

Oh there it is - 50.232.205.246 hadn't entered the citation correctly. I'm on it!--DisneyMetalhead (talk) 01:48, 29 July 2017 (UTC)

Matthew Rosenberg
I don't think the linked journalist Matthew Rosenberg is the comic author Matthew Rosenberg. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 204.27.197.5 (talk) 21:08, 25 August 2017 (UTC)

External links modified (February 2018)
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Edit
I organized the page, included new sources, removed unnecessary information, link names that weren't link, and yet my edits keep being removed to a more messy page that doesn't follow the patern of other characters pages. I would like that my edits remain, and not be freaking removed. 2804:431:D72C:30FC:C598:85DE:7B05:FD7A (talk) 18:34, 14 December 2018 (UTC)


 * You removed a lot relevant information, including info on the new series. Subsections are listed alphabetically, as not to give any WP:BIAS to any form of media. Yes, WP:OTHERSTUFF exits, but keep mind this is a WP:GA rated article. Other articles may be of lesser quality or have their own reasoning for their format.-TriiipleThreat (talk) 20:43, 14 December 2018 (UTC)
 * I didn't removed relevant information, nor info on the new series. I didn't even wrote anything in that. I have never seen a comic book characther page in alfabetical order. It's been exactly "Television, film, videogames, etc.". This is literally the first time. I believe this page should follow others examples. It seems odd this formation. I organized the video games section, put new links to the ones that were off, and link news that weren't link, like of Joe Quesada. The book section, for instance, said that the book would be released on OCTOBER 2017. It seems like only a few things are taken care of on this page. 2804:431:D72C:30FC:C598:85DE:7B05:FD7A (talk) 21:04, 14 December 2018 (UTC)
 * First, now that discussion has started you should not be editing the disputed content. Secondly, You did remove relevant info including info about the new series, and the book was released in October 2017. Lastly per WP:V, we should be citing reliable independent third party sources when available. Also you don’t need to repeat her full name in every instance and add “appear as Ms. Marvel”. Who else would she appear as.—TriiipleThreat (talk) 23:46, 14 December 2018 (UTC)
 * I didn't removed, unless that section was added while I was editing. It didn't said the book was released, it said it was GOING to be released in October 2017. It even says "The story WILL focus", not "The story focus". The links that I removed were links that were not working anymore. The news from Marvel.com, instead of going to the news itself, go to the hompegage. I searched for them, and they are not there anymore. I changed them to links that are indeed working, from third-party websites. And it's better to add that she appears as Ms. Marvel, instead of her civilian identity. Miles Morales, for instance, appears in the last Spider-Man game as just Miles Morales, not as Spider-Man. 2804:431:D72C:30FC:C598:85DE:7B05:FD7A (talk) 12:49, 15 December 2018 (UTC)
 * You did, inadvertently or not. The sentence reads In March 2016, Marvel Press announced that they would release a 128-page chapter-book titled Ms. Marvel: Fists of Fury in October 2017. which was and still is accurate. I fixed the tense of “focus”. Also my bad, I thought you were changing the citations ‘’to’’ Marvel.com. I have restored your links. Still adding “appears as Ms. Marvel” is tedious and repetitive. Miles Morales is the exception, not the rule.—-TriiipleThreat (talk) 12:48, 16 December 2018 (UTC)
 * Stop reverting the edits. For the last freaking time. The information that I keep removing are irrelavant. In NO OTHER character page this kind of information exists. Nobody cares what the developers of a game are, or what kind of game is. What matters is that such character it is in such game. I'm organizing things. I'm following Wikipedia's rules and the way it is on other characters pages, and you keep reverting that because you don't think that's right. Or you change the way it its on every other character page, or you stop with this nonsense. I've already acepted the alphabetical order and the full name things (although only on this page I saw those), but that'll never be a conscientious if you keep being thick headed about this. 2804:431:D72C:30FC:C598:85DE:7B05:FD7A (talk) 17:48, 17 December 2018 (UTC)
 * First do not edit disputed content while discussion is in progress. You made a bold change, it was reverted, now we are discussing. Secondly other stuff existing, or not existing is not a valid argument. Wikipedia allows for editorial discretion. If you can point to an actual policy or guideline that prohibits such information then please do so.If need be I’ll start an RFC for others to comment—TriiipleThreat (talk) 20:06, 17 December 2018 (UTC)
 * Of course is a valid argument. If most of the pages on Wikipedia are in one way, than that's the standard, and that's what should be followed. I'm not saying that the information is prohibited, only that's it's irrelevant. Such as things like "Khan made her television debut in". If it's the first that appears, of course it's her television debut. Also, regarding the games, it turns that section into a mess when you have differente games with different syles. 2804:431:D72C:30FC:C598:85DE:7B05:FD7A (talk) 18:10, 17 December 2018 (UTC)
 * WP:OTHERSTUFF is listed as an Argument to avoid. I have started an RfC below to allow others to weight in because it appears that we are at an impasse.--TriiipleThreat (talk) 20:52, 17 December 2018 (UTC)

RfC about details in the other media section
Should the in the other media section contain brief descriptions of each listed work? For example: "Khan appears in the 2018 animated film, Marvel Rising: Secret Warriors" or "Khan appears as an unlockable playable character in Marvel Puzzle Quest, a free-to-play match 3 adventure game." Or should a simple X appears in Y approach be taken?--TriiipleThreat (talk) 20:47, 17 December 2018 (UTC)
 * I would included a brief description. Not everyone will know what Marvel Rising is, and they shouldn't be required to click the link to find out. Argento Surfer (talk) 13:42, 18 December 2018 (UTC)
 * This kind of detail is unnecessary. If somebody is curious to know what kind of game it is or what kind of film it is, searching it or reading the page it takes only a few seconds. If it was important to know, than every other character page would have this sort of information. Including this kind of detail also makes that section messier and visually ugly, because you'll have all sort of things. It's better to make it simple, straight, and understandable. 2804:431:D72C:F215:E57D:F7A8:FCD:E9D (talk) 14:27, 18 December 2018 (UTC)
 * You don't think telling a reader what kind of game Puzzle Quest is makes the bullet point more understandable? Argento Surfer (talk) 13:43, 19 December 2018 (UTC)
 * No. I think that there'll be a time where it will have so much games of so much different styles that will be too much information to handle and will be confusing to the reader. 2804:431:D72C:F215:E57D:F7A8:FCD:E9D (talk) 13:29, 19 December 2018 (UTC)
 * It's the responsibility of editors adding that potential information in the future to keep it organized. Argento Surfer (talk) 21:22, 19 December 2018 (UTC)
 * I agree that it should be a simple X appears in Y approach. The page more organizable, the better. Greenfantasticbeast (talk) 16:50, 20 December 2018 (UTC)

Requested move 30 December 2018

 * The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this section. 

The result of the move request was: moved (closed by non-admin page mover)  SITH   (talk)   19:48, 14 January 2019 (UTC)

Ms. Marvel (Kamala Khan) → Kamala Khan – Similar to the recently moved Miles Morales article (previously at Spider-Man (Miles Morales)), the disambiguation is extraneous as Kamala Khan already redirects here. Carol Danvers, the previous holder of this codename, is likewise not disambiguated. -- Netoholic @ 13:00, 30 December 2018 (UTC) --Relisted. –Ammarpad (talk) 08:00, 6 January 2019 (UTC)


 * Oppose: Carol Danvers is not disambiguated because she is known by several notable codenames. Ms. Marvel, however, is this character’s only significant codename and is known just as much as Ms. Marvel as Kamala Khan if not more.—TriiipleThreat (talk) 15:01, 30 December 2018 (UTC)
 * Support --Emir of Wikipedia (talk) 23:23, 2 January 2019 (UTC)
 * Support based on the current article styling. The opening paragraph doesn't mention Ms Marvel as a codename. Argento Surfer (talk) 13:28, 3 January 2019 (UTC)
 * That can easily be changed by a simple edit. Still the character's WP:COMMONNAME is Ms. Marvel. People are more likely to search for her by that name than Kamala Khan. Most people unfamiliar with the source material probable aren't wouldn't be aware of the character's secret identity until they read it the search bar or the set index article.--TriiipleThreat (talk) 19:07, 3 January 2019 (UTC)
 * I disagree about common name. Since her religion is what got her the most attention outside of comics, most sources lead with her name. See this NYT article for instance, which doesn't call her "Ms. Marvel" until the fourth paragraph. The Times of India used "Ms. Marvel" first in the story, but put "Kamala Khan" in the headline. Here's another source using "Kamala Khan" before "Ms. Marvel". Argento Surfer (talk) 19:46, 3 January 2019 (UTC)
 * Comment: 'Ms' should be written without point. 144.85.240.106 (talk) 22:57, 9 January 2019 (UTC).
 * Why?  Calidum   17:16, 11 January 2019 (UTC)


 * Support. No disambiguation structure is required for a unique name of a character with a strong likelihood of being known by that name. bd2412  T 17:08, 14 January 2019 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

Powers, Abilities?
This article seems to be missing a "Powers and Abilities" section, something nearly every superhero wiki page includes. KingAdrock (talk) 00:05, 11 January 2017 (UTC)


 * Her powers are discribed in the publication history section by reliable third-party sources.--TriiipleThreat (talk) 00:34, 11 January 2017 (UTC)


 * It briefly mentions that she has shapeshifting abilities, and gives no detail about said abilities. A "Powers and Abilities" section tends to dive into all of that, describing abilities in great detail as well as their known limits. Also having its own section means you don't have to pointlessly search the entire page for that infomation. Normally in this situation I'd write the section myself, but I'm not familiar enough with this character to do so. KingAdrock (talk) 07:53, 30 January 2017 (UTC)


 * There's no need to go into great detail, that's basically it. Again keep in mind this is a good article, and we are trying to the trappings and bad habits displayed in most comic book articles: in-universe details from primary sources. It's also mentioned in the lead and infobox if you don't want to read the entire body.--TriiipleThreat (talk) 09:53, 30 January 2017 (UTC)


 * Trappings and bad habits like the ones in, say, this featured article? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anarky 82.41.96.246 (talk) 00:42, 20 July 2019 (UTC)
 * That featured article is from 2008, when the standards were far lower. Argento Surfer (talk) 02:58, 20 July 2019 (UTC)


 * Agreed, POWERS. We are talking about the CHARACTER (look at the article TITLE), NOT the Publication/Comic itself! Less about circulation/etc. as that should be in an article about the Comic/Publication- this article is supposed to be about the fictional CHARACTER Kamala Khan. It NEEDS to include a clear section about Powers! The ENTIRE reset of the "Contents" is about the PUBLICATION. Please DISAMBIGUATE the Character vs Comic and make this article about the FORMER, as the Title indicates. :/