Talk:Kamboj/Archive 1

COMBINE ARTICLE
Combine with http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kambojas —Preceding unsigned comment added by Ieatroti911 (talk • contribs) 00:49, 5 February 2009 (UTC)

Kambojas
Satbir, by making most of this article discuss the Kambojas, you are in effect violating WP:CFORK and treating the scope of this article as identical with that of Kambojas. If that is your intention, please state it clearly, and we can consider merging them. As it stands, this article is about the modern group, as opposed to the Kambojas article, which is about the Mauryan to medieval group. Please try to respect clear separation of article scopes: Category:Kambojas is ample illustration of what happens when people fail to do that. dab (𒁳) 10:00, 17 December 2 (UTC)

Which article has the following information?
Dab, the following is relevant information on Modern Kamboj which you are deleting it again and gain. Can you let us know which of the other Kamboj articles has this information? Why are you deleting this information? Does the Kambojas which you say, covers upto mediaval period, contain this information? Obviously not. Hence it belongs here and therefore I'm restoring it.

Kamboh/Kamboj in Modern Times
The population of the modern people who still call themselves Kamboj (or prikritic Kamboh, or Kamoz) or Kambhoj is estimated to be around 1.5 million and the rest of their population, over the time, submerged with other occupationalized castes/groups of the Indian subcontinent.

The Kambojs, by tradition, are divided into 52 and 84 clans. 52 line is stated to be descendants of Cadet branch and 84 from the elder Branch. This is claimed as referring to the young and elder military divisions under which they had fought the Bharata War. Numerous of their clan names overlap with other Kshatriyas and the Rajput castes of the north-west India, thereby suggesting that some of the Kshatriya/Rajput clans of north-west must have descended from the Ancient Kambojas.

The Kambojs/Kambohs practiced weapon-worship in the past but the practice is now going out of vogue.

Diaspora
The Kamboj or Kamboh living in upper India (Greater Punjab) are identified as the modern representatives of the ancient Kambojas. They are found as Hindus, Sikhs, Muslims, Buddhists and the Jains. Kambojs are known as adventurous and enterprising people. Therefore, as a colonists, servicemen, and businessmen, they have also spread, after the partition, into various parts of India, including a belt of Haryana from Karnal to Yamunanagar,Sirsa and Fazilka region, Delhi, Uttar Pradesh, Ganganagar in Rajasthan and Madhya Pradesh. There is also minuscule Kambhoj (jaina) community living since olden times near Nanded in Maharashtra, possibly the dwindling remnant of ancient Kambojas who had settled southwest India around the Christian era. (See links:,   ). The community obviously seems to have mixed with the local communities over time and imbibed local cultures and languages.

The Tajiks, Siyahposh tribe (Kam/Kamoz, Katir/Kamtoz) of Nuristan, Yashkuns, Swatis, and the Yusufzais of Eastern Afghanistan and NWFP of Pakistan are said by various scholars to have descended from the ancient Kambojas. According to Gazetteer of the Bombay Presidency, the Kambus (Kambohs/Kambojs) are an offshoot of the Afghan stock link

Traditions
The Kambohs are stated to be the ancient inhabitants of Persia.

Some historian says Kambojas are original from Cambodia, The Sikh Kamboj of Kapurthala & Jullundur (Punjab) claim descent from Raja Karan. They also have a tradition that their ancestors came from Kashmir,.

Hindu Kambohs claim to be related to the Rajputs and to have come from Persia through southern Afghanistan. The Chapter III of Gazetteer of Muzaffarnagar (UP) based on British India census reports of 1881/1891 etc note that about 1200 Muslim and Hindu Kamboj were living in Saharanpur who also claimed to be Rajputs. The Kamboj in Phillaur, District Jullundur, too claimed to be Suryavanshi Rajputs. The Kambohs of Bijnor claim that they came from Trans-Indus country and Mr Purser accepts this as evidently true. Many of the Bijnor Kambohs also have a tradition that they are of the same ethnic stock as the Chattris or Khatris. "In the Census of 1891, it is reported that the Kamboh, who lived around Mathura in the United Province (Uttar Pradesh), were originally Kshatriyas". The Rajasthan [district Gazetteers] asserts that the Kambohs are probably related to the Khatris. The Hindu Kambohs from Karnal claim their origin from Garh-Gajni. Their Pandits still pronounce the following couplet at the phera during their marriage ceremony to give information about their original home: Garh Gajni nikaas, Lachhoti Ghaggar vaas (Trans: Originated from the fort of Gajni, and settled down in Ghaggar region (in Haryana or Punjab)). One Gajni or Ghazni is located in Afghanistan, but based on another tradition of the Karnal Kamboj, the eminent ethnographers like H. A. Rose and several other scholars have identified this Gajni in Kambay in Saurashtra (port of Vallabhi)

Muslim Kambohs have a tradition that they descended from ancient Kai dynasty of Persia, to which the emperors Kaikaus, Kaikhusro, Kaikubad, Kai-lehrashab and Darius all belonged. On the last king of the dynasty having been dethroned, and expelled from the country, he wandered about some time with his family and dependents in the neighboring countries and finally settled in Punjab.

Agriculturists
The modern Kamboj are still found living chiefly by agriculture, business and military service which were the chief professions followed by their Kamboja ancestors some 2500 years ago as powerfully attested by Arthashastra and Brhat Samhita. Numerous foreign and Indian writers have described the modern Kambojs/Kambohs as one of the finest class of agriculturists of India. British colonial writers such as H. A. Rose and Denzil Charles J. Ibbetson note the Kamboj and Ahir agriculturists as the first rank husbandmen and they rate them above the Jatts. They occupy exactly the same position in general farming as the Ramgarhias occupy in general industry.

The Kambojs have made great contributions in agriculture and military fields. The majority of Krishi Pandit awards in Rajasthan/India have been won by the Kamboj agriculturists. Col Lal Singh Kamboj, a landlord from Uttar Pradesh, was the first Indian farmer to win the prestigious Padam Shri Award for progressive farming in 1968 from President of India. According to Dr M. S. Randhawa (Ex-Vice Chancellor, Punjab University), the Kamboj farmers have no equals in industry and tenacity.

Physical Characteristics
Several foreign and indigenous observers have described the modern Kambojs as very industrious, stiff-necked, hardy, turbulent, skillful, provident and an enterprising race. British commentator, William Crooke, observes that "The Kambohs are a hardy independent people and do not pay much deference to the leading castes" . Some commentators have described the Kambohs/Kambojs as ethnically more akin to the Afghans than to any of the "meek Hindu races" of the plains of India wherein they have now settled for generations.

There is a medieval era Persian proverb (verse) current in the north-west to the effect that of the Afghans, the Kambohs (Kamboj) and the Kashmiris... all three are rogues. Prof Blochman comments on this proverb: "This verse is very modern, for during the reigns of Akbar and Jehangir, it was certainly a distinction to belong to the Kamboh tribe".

This old proverb seems to convey the historical fact that in the distant past, the Persians, the Afghans, the Kambojs/Kambohs and the Kasmiris lived more or less as neighbors and belonged to one inter-related racial group.

Against the above proverb and with reference to the Kambohs/Kambojs, other investigators and scholars like Sardar Gurdial Singh note that "during the reign of terror, it were the Kambojs/Kambohs only who were most trusted by the rich bankers for carrying their cash in the disguise of faqirs". British ethnographer H. A. Rose also states that: "As agents to the bankers, the Kambohs are much trusted" . The honesty and integrity of the Kamboj/Kamboh community of Punjab is proverbial.

The Kamboj integrity and honesty has also been specifically acknowledged in the Census Report of India, 1881 by Denzil Ibbetson.

The Kambojs are also proverbial in Hindustan for "their sagacity and quickness of apprehension"  (perception or understanding).

The Kambojs have also been noted for their courage, tenacity and stamina for fighting. They (Kamboj) make excellent soldiers, being of very fine physique and possessing great courage.....They have always been noted for their cunning strategy, which now, being far less 'slim' than in former times, has developed into the permissible strategy of war. .

Modern Kamboj are a generally tall, well-built, sharp featured, and generally very fair (gaura varna) race, with brown, sometimes reddish hair, brown or sometimes gray or blue or green eye color, and long sharp noses. "Pure blood Kamboj ladies are very beautiful and attractive". Kamboj women have especially been noted for their beauty in ancient times too. In ancient references, the Kambojas have been described as a very handsome race. Ancient Kamboj princes have also been noted as tall like towers, exceedingly handsome and of gaura varna, having faces illustrious like the full moon, lotus eyed, handsome like the lord-moon among the stars. Even Ramayana calls the Kambojas ravisanibha i.e. with faces illustrious like the Sun.

Satbir Singh (talk) 23:38, 17 December 2007 (UTC)

CLASSICAL CASE OF RAJA KARAN--THE SO-CALLED ANCESTOR OF THE KAMBOJS
By the way, if one reads Glossary of Tribes and Castes of Punjab by H. A. Rose, (The Bible of these half-baked modern ethnic writers), one would be surprised to notice many many weird/foolish things through out. THe readers are encouraged to go through the following text, if they have enough stamina and patience. All the following information on Raja Karan vs various Castes of Punjab has been collected from the writings of these colonial British writers of pre-partition days, like the Purser, the Ibettson and the Rose etc. These guys had collected this useful and scientific(!) 1information from the Great Mirasis of Punjab and recorded it faithfully as a part of the real history of the Punjabi Castes/People! Amusingly enough, many naive/credulous readers (this includes Kamboj, Jatts, Rajputs alike), who lack the analytical reasoning of their own, are over-gladdened to read this kind of non-sense and thus overly-boast about their mythical ancestory with RAJA KARAN or some other mythical Raja.....which is nothing more than a fanciful creation of the over-ingratiating Punjab Mirasis and the Bhatts. These resourceful and flatterting Mirasis can quite easily create one Raja for every TOM, DICK and HARRY clan/caste to seek their favors! Such myths can not be and should not be treated as a factual history.

EXAMPLES FROM THE GLOSSARY OF TRIBES/PANJAB CASTES ETC
[1] KHAKH JATT CLAN is descendent of RAJA KARAN.!. In Bahawalpur, this Jat tribe gave the following genealogy: Raja Karan had a son named Kamdo who had a son named Pargo who had a son named Janjuhan who had a son named Khakh. Khakh had four sons: Babbar, Gabbar (Gaawar/Gabar/Gawar), Rabbar, and Jhaggar (Glossary of the Tribes and Castes of the Punjab and North West Frontier Province, 1911, Vol II, H. A. Rose, p 31).

[2] BABAR JATT CLAN: Babbar is a Jatt clan in Dera Ghazi Khan- probably immigrants from the east or aboriginal- and in Bahawalpur. Babbar is said to be descedants of Raja Karan (See: Glossary of the Tribes and Castes of the Punjab and North West Frontier Province, 1911, Vol II, H. A. Rose, p 31). (NOTE: The other clans related to the Babbar Jatt clan are Gabir or Gabbir or Gabhal(Gabhar), Jhaggar and Rabbar, who all may also be related to Raja Karan. Babbar, Gabbar, Rabbar and Jhaggar were four brothers, sons of Khakh, a direct descendant of Raja Karan.

[3] JANJUHAN (JANJUA?) JATT CLAN: Janjuhan is a Mohammadan Jatt  as well as Arain clan name. Janjuhan is also a descent of Raja Karan (Glossary of the Tribes and Castes of the Punjab and North West Frontier Province, 1911, Vol II, H. A. Rose, read pp 31 and 356 together).

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/JatHistory/message/1569

[4] BARIA/VARYA, BARAH, WARAH Rajput clans descended from RAJA KARAN. Name derived from Sanskritic: Varaha which means boar. This tribe is said to be in Jullunder to be Rajputs descendend from Raja Karan of the Mahabharat (See Website below; See also: Glossary of the Tribes and Castes of the Punjab and North West Frontier Province, 1911, p 65, H. A. Rose")

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/JatHistory/message/1012

[5] DHILLON, GORAYE/GORAYA JATS are descendents of RAJA KARAN! God Sun/Suraj had an illustrious son called Karana (reference is obviously to Pandava’s elder brother, Karana/Kama ....a great charity giver) is stated by this tradition to have had four sons (1) Chattar Sain (2) Brik Sain (3) Loh sain (4) Chandor Sain….. The Dhillon/Goraya Jats are described to be the descendants of this Loh sain, the above said son of Raja Karan. (See: Glossary of the Tribes and Castes of the Punjab and North West Frontier Province, 1911, Vol II, p 237/238, H. A. Rose etc). It can possibly be surmised that the Birk (Virk) Jatts have originated from Brikh Sain, the Chandor Jatts from the Chandor Sain and the Chatta/Chattha Jatts probably from Chattar sain (However, another account makes them descendants of one Chatta, the grand son of Prithvi Raj Chauhan)...the other three sons of Raja Karan. The story goes that in the line of Raja Karan, there was a Surajbansi Rajput Raja Lu (Loh) whose descendants are the Dhillons. Glossary of Tribes by H. A. Rose states that the Dhillons have "Baj" (Baja/Baju or Bajwe?), "Saj" (?) and "Sanda" Jatt sections. Since "Sanda" Jatts are a Branch of the Dhillon Jatts, hence Sanda clan may also be considered descendants of Raja Karan. The Goraya Jatts are said to a clan of the Dhillon tribe---both are said to have descended from Saroiah (Saroha/Siroha Rajput clan), hence along with the Goraya Jatts, Sarohas/Saroiah/Siroha Rajput clan  can also be considered as related to/descended from Raja Karan through Lu. (See Glossary of Tribes, Vol II, 1911, pp 287, 303 and Vol III, 1911, p 386, H. A. Rose)

[6) NARU/NARMA/NARWA/NARWAH RAJPUT and JAT CLANS are descendants of RAJA KARAN! [''Glossary of the Tribes and Castes of the Punjab and North West Frontier Province, 1911,  Vol III, pp 158-160, H. A. Rose).

[7] THATHU/THATHA/THATHIAL. At another place of ROSE's GLOSSARY (p 467/468), the Raja Karan is stated to have fathered only two sons (1) Thathu (2) Naru…….... and Glossary states...From Thathu originated Thathal Jats/Rajputs and from Naru originated Narwaha gotras Jats/Rajputs [''Glossary of the Tribes and Castes of the Punjab and North West Frontier Province, 1911, Vol III, 467/468, H. A. Rose).

[8] Varaitch clan, one of the largest clan of the Jats, claim descent from Raja Karan (Report on the Second Regular Settlement of the Gujrat District, Panjab, 1874, p xiv, W. G. Waterfield; Glossary of Tribes, Vol III, p 486, H. A. Rose).

[9] Punwar/Panwar caste of Rajputs claim decsent from RAJA KARAN son of Udadit who belonged to Dwapara yuga (Legends of Punjab, Part 2, 2003, p 182, Richard C. Temple)

[10] Wasir clan of the Rajputs also claim descent from mythicaly KARAN (Glossary of Tribes, Vol III, p 490, HJ. A. Rose).

[11] Kirars claim descent from one mythical RAJA KARAN said to belong to Jaipur.

[12] Kirs like the Kirars also claim descent from one mythical RAJA KARAN said to belong to Jaipur.

[13a] KHARRAL RAJPUTS/JATTS: At another place in the same classic books (by the Colonial British Writers), the KHARRAL Rajput/KHARRALl Jat clans are also stated to be the descendants of Raja Bhupa who, according to H. A. Rose, was a direct descendant of RAJA KARAN and was originally settled in Uch/Multan (See: Glossary of the Tribes and Castes of the Punjab and North West Frontier Province, 1911, Vol II, p 496, H. A. Rose; Punjab Castes, 1974 Edition, p 129, Denzil Ibbetson).

[13b] HARRAL RAJPUTS: They are also said to have been descended from same ancestor as that of the Kharrals i.e from Bhupa Rai through another son. Thus Harral clan who was descendant of Raja Karan. They are also related to Punwar Rajputs and came to Uch from Jaisemer (See: Punjab Castes, 1971, p 78, Denzil Ibbetson).

[13c] Multan Gazetteer, 1902, P 138, also connects the KHARRALS with the HARRALS, BHUTTAS, LAKAS, LANGHAS and  PUNWARS. Hence the Kharrals, Harrals, Langhas, Bhuttas/Bhuttos, Lakas and the Punwars can all be treated as blood cousins and, therefore, related to Raja Karan.

[14] H. A. Rose writes: "The Multan tradition discloses that the LANGHAHS (LAHNGAS) are PUNWARS and are allied to the KHARRALS, HARRALS, BHUTTAS, AND THE LAKS "( See: Glossary of the Tribes and Castes of the Punjab and North West Frontier Province, 1911, Vol II, p 496, fn; See also: Multan Gazetteer, 1902, p 138). All these are the so-called Jatt/Rajput clans (though Langhas are also found among the Kambohs, and Bhuttas are predominantly Arains). Hence the Kharrals, Harrals, Langhas, Bhuttas/Bhuttos, Lakas and Punwars can all be treated as blood cousins and therefore, are related to Raja Karan by blood.

[15] The KATHIAS of Ravi/Chenab Punjab also claim to be descendants of RAJA KARAN (See: Denzil Ibbetson, Punjab Castes, p 131; Glossary of the Tribes and Castes of the Punjab and North West Frontier Province, 1911, Vol II, p 482 fn, H. A. Rose).

[16] H. A. Rose as well as Denzil Ibbetson note that "The Kathias claim to be PUNWAR Rajputs" (See: Denzil Ibbetson, Punjab Castes, p 130, Glossary of the Tribes and Castes of the Punjab and North West Frontier Province, 1911, Vol II, p 482, H. A. Rose). This makes the PUNWARS who are related to the KATHIAS also the descendants of celebrated Raja Karan.

[17] The Kathias have TWO MAIN divisions viz. (1) The KATHIAS proper and (2) the BAGHELAS. Since Kathias are said to have descended from Raja Karan, and since the BAGHELAS are a section of the Kathias, hence by corollary, the BAGHELA rajputs are also the descendants of the same Raja Karan.

[18] Further more, the BALWANA and the PAWAR are said to be other leading clans of the KATHIAS and hence as a  consequence, are also the descendants of same Raja Karan (See: Glossary of the Tribes and Castes of the Punjab and North West Frontier Province, 1911,  Vol II, pp 48, H. A. Rose; Punjab Castes, 1974, p 131, Denzil Ibbetson).

In nutshell, the the KATHIAS/KATHIS, BAGHELAS, BALWANAS and PAWARS are all the descendants of same celebrated Raja Karan.

[19] RAJPUT SECTIONS of KATHIAWAR also claim to be descendants of the same RAJA KARAN.(See: Denzil Ibbetson, Punjab Castes, p 131; See also: Glossary of the Tribes and Castes of the Punjab and North West Frontier Province, 1911,  Vol II, p 483, H. A. Rose)

[20] What is more funny/interesting, the Kamboj tribe is said to have originated from the same legendary RAJA KARAN (of Mahabharata?). (See numerous refs: Glossary of Tribes & Castes by H. Rose p 443-445; Also read: "Kamboh" in Panjab Castes by Denzil Ibbetson, pp 149/150; REPORT ON THE REVISED LAND REVENUE SETTLEMENT OF THE MONTGOMERY DISTRICT IN ..., 1878, p 50, C. A. Roe and W. E. Purser; Gazetteer of the Montgomery District (Sahiwal), 1883-84, Edition 1990, p 68, Punjab (Pakistan), Punjab (Pakistan - Sahiwal District (Pakistan); The Tribes and Castes of the North-western Provinces and Oudh, 1896, p 206, William Crooke - Ethnology; Folklore of the Punjab, 1971, p 8, Sohindara Siṅgha Waṇajārā Bedī - Folklore; Bibliotheca Indica, 1949, p 388,  Royal Asiatic Society of Bengal, Asiatick Society (Calcutta, India); Punjabi Musalmans, 1991, p 89,  J. M. Wikeley - Ethnology; ʻAin-i-Akbari of Abul Fazl-i-ʻAllami , 1948, p 388,  Abū al-Faz̤l ibn Mubārak, Jadunath Sarkar; The Historical Background of Pakistan and Its People, 1973, p 128; An Observation: Perspective of Pakistan, 1987, p 100, Ahmed Abdulla; Punjab, the Land of Beauty, Love, and Mysticism, 1992, p 211,  Syed Abdul Quddus - Punjab (India); See also: Kamboj Itihaas, p 7, 1972, H. S. Thind). And the learned and very knowledgeable Mirasees of the Kambojs of Panjab also flatter the Kamboj population by stating that their ancestor, RAJA KARAN, was a great charity-giver and used to donate 50 ser (40 kg) of gold to the poors every day, before taking his breakfast!!!!!!!.

[21] The Kakezai caste claim origin from Afghans and alos cliam as descendents of Kakka, son of (RAJA) KARAN. (Glossary of the Tribes and Castes of the Punjab and North West Frontier Province, 1911, Vol II, p 355, H. A. Rose)

[22] According to Punjab Gazetteer, the Arains Caste of Pakistan (which is numbering about 70 milliosn?? or?) are said to be descendants of /related to RAJA KARAN! This is because Rai Chajju (actually RAI JAJ of Mr W. E. PURSER, H. A. ROSE & WILLIAM CROOKE etc), the ancestor of most of the Arains, was a relative of RAJA KARAN as the very scholarly writers like Ahmed Abdulla or Syed Abdul Quddus declare (See: The Historical Background of Pakistan and Its People, 1973, p 128; An Observation: Perspective of Pakistan, 1987, p 100, Ahmed Abdulla; Punjab, the Land of Beauty, Love, and Mysticism, 1992, p 211, Syed Abdul Quddus - Punjab (India)).

[23] Bhutta (Bhutto) clan of the Arains of Jalandhar Tehsil stated that they were descendants of Raja Bhutta, fifth in descent from Raja Karan, and were settled originally in Uch (Refs: North Indian Notes and Queries, 1896, p 64; ˜The tribes and castes of the north-western provinces and Oudh in four..., 1999, p 206, William Crooke; North Indian Notes and Queries, 1896, p 64, Mythology, Hindu; Jalandhar Settlement Report, p 82, sqq ; Cf: ˜The œtribes and castes of the north-western provinces and Oudh…, 1999 edition, p 206, William Crooke; See also: North Indian Notes and Queries, 1896, p 64, Hindu Mythology; A Glossary of the Tribes & Castes of the Punjab & North-west Frontier Province, 1911, Vol II, p 15, H. A. Rose etc). The Buttas, along with the Harrals, Punwars, Lakas, Langhas/Lahnghas as seen above are also the sections of the Kharrals (Multan Gazetteer, 1902, p 138).

[24] The Bhuttas/Bhuttos (a clan of both the Jatts & the Rajputs) would similarily be the descendants of the legendary RAJA KARAN, since Bhutta/Bhutto is merely a clan name and is shared by Arains, Rajputs and the Jatts. Since clan names are always a fixed parameter whereas tribe or caste may change, hence the Bhuttas/Bhuttos found among the Arains, Rajputs and the Jatts come of the same original stock and hence all must be descendants of same Raja Karan.

[25] The Story does not end here!!!. One only needs to go through each & every page of these Bibles of the Punjab Castes written by these great British Gazetteers of 19th/20th c AD to fully learn as to how many more of the Panjab tribes/clans can be said to have descended from the (KAMBOJ) RAJA KARAN....Probably the list would be endless!!

BTW: If RAJA KARAN was indeed the ancestor of the Kamboh/Kamboj tribe (and also of the ARAINS, as these colonial era Bible books want us to believe, and which many modern half-baked scholars like Mr Ahmed Abdulla, Syed Abdul Quddus and their ilk also thoughtlessly continue to promote and repeat on every page, here and there), then, this RAJA KARAN, definitely can't be the Pandava brother RAJA KARNA who had fought in Mahabharata war. This is because the Kambojs/Kambohs, WHO ARE OTHERWISE SAID TO BE HIS SUPPOSED DESCENDANTS, were already existing in millions at the time of this KAURAVA/PANDAVA RAJA KARAN, and had participated in the Mahabharata war with full division (Akshauhin) army of the the wrathful warriors which besides the Kambojas, also included the Shakas, Yavans, Tukharas and the Khasass. And very interestingly, in the same Kurukshetra war, the legendary RAJA KARAN had also participated on behalf of the Kauravas.

See: Kurukshetra War and the Kambojas.

Furthermore, if this legendary RAJA KARAN was indeed a Kamboj/Kamboh, then how come so many non-Kamboj clans like the Jat/Rajput clans (DHILLON, GORAYA, THATHIAL, KHAKH, VARYA, BRAH, BARIA, WARAH, NARU, NARWAHA, KATHIS, KAKEZAI, KHARRALS, PAWARS, LAKS, HARRALS, THE RAJPUTS (OF SURASHTER/KATHIAWAD), THE BHUTTOS/BHUTTAS and the KATHIAS OF RAVI/CHENAB etc) could also be the descedants of the same (KAMBOJ) RAJA KARAN, unless these JATTS/RAJPUTS/KATHAS/BHUTTOS/KATHIS/KHARRALS/PUNWARS/BAGHELAS/BALWANAS/PAWARS etc along with the ARAINS, were ALL ORIGINALLY FROM the Kamboj/Kamboh race?. If this is accepted, (which has to be accepted if the colonial Pursers, Wilsons, Roses and Ibbetsons etc are to be believed), then all these DHILLON, GORAYA, THATHIAL, KHAKH, VARYA, BRAH, BARIA, WARAH, NARU, KHARRAL, HARRAL, BABBAR, LAK, PAWAR, JANJUHAN, NARWAHA, KATHIS, KAKEZAI, ALL RAJPUTS OF SURASHTER/KATHIAWAD, THE BHUTTOS/BHUTTAS, PUNWARS, BAGHLESA, BALWANAS, and, of course, the ARAINS must be accepted, without any hitch or hindrance, purely as a Kamboh/Kamboja breed-- the modern representatives of the famed ancient Kshatriyas of Mahabharata fame, known as the Kambojas, who are also said to be the forefathers of the modern Kamboj/Kamboh communty of Punjab/North-eastern Afghanistan. (DOES THIS MAKE SENSE TO THE NAIVE READERS WHO BELIEVE IN THE LEGENDARY RAJA KARAN??????).

The Kambojs/Gandhars are one of the earliest and very ancient known Indo=Iranic tribes of north-west (now Indian Punjab and Pakistan). The Jatts, Rajputs, Arains, Kharals, Khokhars, Awans etc are merely the caste names and are only a phenomenon which occured much later in time on the Indian soil. All these occupational (Caste) names must be assumed to have been derived/evolved from the diverse ethnics of the Kambojas, Sakas,  Pahlavas, Yavanas, Paradas, Kushanas, Hunas, Gurjaras etc. Since all the above mentioned ancient tribes, (NOTE: A minuscule population of the Kamboj, Kathis and Gujjar tribes, are still maintaining their ancient Tribal Identity), have already completely lost their original tribal Identity and therefore, have shifted from the TRIBAL DOMAIN into the CASTE-DOMAIN, it logically follows therefore that the Jatts, the Arains, the Rajputs and numerous other Indo-Iranic castes of the modern north-west regions, must have all evolved/derived from the  above referred to ancient tribes of the  Kambojas, Kambojas, Pahlavas, Paradas, Yavanas, Risikas/Yuechis, Hunas, and Gurjaras of the antiquity etc. Of course, many of the above said tribes were allied/cognate tribes, as some ancient references reveal. There could be no other explaination possible.

See also Raja Karan: Raja Karan

MORAL OF THE STORY
One should not put too much confidence and trust on these PURSERS, IBETTSONS, ROSES AND THE LIKES....the British Designed Gazetteers of the nineteenth century. British Raj had its own mottos and Ajenda. These writers, sure enough, compiled and recorded more of the fictions, myths and nonsense as relayed to them by the Punajb Miraasis/Bhatts and are therefore, are more of MYTHICAL than historical information.

Unfortunately, it is a legacy of the same kind of the British colonial mentality that some of the modern political-writers like Ahmed Abdulla, Syed Abdul Qudduss etc till continue to stick to this unproved and outdated hypothesis of the Arain vs Kamboj connections.

Satbir Singh (talk) 03:18, 18 January 2008 (UTC)

Raja Karan From Wikipedia
Raja Karan may refer to:


 * Karna (कर्ण) one of the central figures in Hindu epic Mahabharata. He was the first son of Kunti and was thus half brother to the Pandavas.
 * Raja Karan of Anhilvada line (in Kathiawar) (1072 AD-1094 AD) who defeated Bhil Chief of Asaval and founded the city of Karanavati.
 * Raja Karan of Gujarat, who fought with and was defeated in 1296 AD at Nehrwala by general Ulugh Khan, brother of Ala-ud-din Khilji, the Emperor of Delhi.
 * Raja Karan of Gwalior (1476 AD), murderer of Fatha Khan, vassal to Bahlul Lodhi (1451 AD-1498 AD). Badaoni describes him as raja of Bhogaon.
 * Raja Karan, said to be the ancestor of the Kamboh/Kamboj (कम्बोज)) people now living in Jullundur and Kapurthala, in east Punjab. . (See also:Kambojas). This Raja Karan was a great charity-giver and used to donate 50 ser (40 kg) of gold to the poors every day, before taking his breakfast.
 * Raja Karan, said to be the ancestor of the Dhillon Jatts (Hindi: जाट, Punjabi: ਜੱਟ) of Punjab. Dhillons Jatts have Baj (Baju/Bajju/Bajwe?), Saj (?) and Sanda Jatt septs, hence Bajju, Sanda etc clans of the Jatts may also be considered to be descendants of Raja Karan.


 * Raja Karan, said to be the ancestor of the Goraya Jatts of Punjab. The Goraya Jatts are believed to be a clan of the Dhillon tribe and are said to be related to Saroiah (Saroha/Siroha) Rajput tribe.


 * Raja Karan, said to be the ancestor of the Thathu/Thatha/Thathial Rajputs/Jatts of Gujerat in western Punjab


 * Raja Karan, said to be the ancestor of the Naru/Narma/Narwa/Narwah Rajputs/Jatts of Gujrat on Jhelum.


 * Raja Karan, said to be the ancestor of the Varya/Baria Rajputs of India


 * Raja Karan, said to be the ancestor of the Brah/Warah Rajputs of India


 * Raja Karan, said to be the ancestor of the Babbar Jatts of Punjab


 * Raja Karan, said to be the ancestor of the Khakh Jatts of Punjab


 * Raja Karan, said to be the ancestor of the Janjuhan (Janjua?) Jatts of Punjab


 * Raja Karan, said to be son of Udadit who belonged to Dwapara yuga. He is the ancestor of the Punwar caste or clan


 * Raja Karan, said to be the ancestor of the Kharral Rajputs/Jatts of Punjab . According to Multan Gazetteer, Kharrals are related to the Harrals, Punwar, Langhas, Bhuttas and Lakas.
 * Raja Karan, said to be the ancestor of the Harral Rajputs of Punjab . The Kharrals and Harrals are blood cousins,the latter descended from Raja Karan's descendant Rai Bhupa through another son. Thus, Harral clan are also descendants of Raja Karan. They are also related to Punwar Rajputs and came to Uch from Jaiselmer. The Multan tradition discloses that the LANGHAHS (LAHNGAS) are PUNWARS and are allied to the KHARRALS, HARRALS, BHUTTAS, AND THE LAKS.
 * Raja Karan, said to be the ancestor of the Kathia tribe of Ravi/Chenab . The Kathias have divisions of "Kathia proper" and "Baghelas". The Balwanas and Pawars are said to be other two leading clans. The Kathias are said to be related to Punwar Rajputs . Kathias have been identified with Kathaioi of the Alexander's time.


 * Karan, said to be the ancestor of the Wasir clan of the Rajputs.
 * Mythical Raja Karan of Jaipur, climed to be ancestor of the Kirs and the Kirars.


 * Raja Karan, one of the 12 clans of the Kaisths, known as Karan claim descent from Raja Karan.


 * Raja Karan, Banjaras of Rajasthan claim decent from Teeda who was the son of (Raja) Karan.


 * Raja Karan, Babbars, a section of the Aroas, trace their descent from Babbar whom they describe as a descendat of Raja Karan of Mahabharata fame.


 * Raja Karan, Several groups of the Nunnaris (salt makers of Gujerat) claim descent from Raja Karan.


 * Raja Karan of Surajbansi line, claimed as the ancestor of the Varaitch Jat clan.


 * Raja Karan, said to be the ancestor of the Rajputs of Kathiawar in Gujerat.


 * Raja Karan, said to be the ancestor of the Arains of Punjab (Pakistan).


 * Raja Karan, said to be the ancestor of the Bhuttas. . The Bhutta or Bhutto clan is spread among the Arains, Jatts and the Rajputs of Punjab and Sindh. The Buttas, along with the Harrals, Punwars, Lakas, Langhas/Lahnghas as seen above are also the sections of the Kharrals.


 * The list is endless.

Edit request from 174.117.201.37, 3 August 2010
Who are Kamboj?

Kamboj (Punjabi: ਕਮ੍ਬੋਜ, Hindi: कम्बोज, Urdu: کمبوہ ) is frequently used as surname or last name by many Kambojs, currently living in India. Their Muslim counter-parts living in Pakistan mostly use Kamboh instead. The Kambojs/Kambohs are the modern reprentatives of ancient Kambojas, a well known Kshatriya tribe of Indo-Aryans, stated to have had both Indian as well as Iranian affinities is frequently used as surname or last name by many Kambojs, currently living in India. Their Muslim counter-parts living in Pakistan mostly use Kamboh instead. The Kambojs/Kambohs are the modern reprentatives of ancient Kambojas, a well known Kshatriya tribe of Indo-Aryans, stated to have had both Indian as well as Iranian affinities [1].

Chudakarma Samskaara of Paraskara Grhya-Sutram [2], Vamsa Brahmana [3]of the of the Sama Veda, the epic Ramayana as well as Mahabharata and some other ancient references attest that a section of the Kambojas also practiced Brahmanism. See : Brahmanism of Ancient Kambojas.

For Kambojas being a Kshatriya tribe,

Overlap with Kshatriya and Brahmin clan names

The modern Kamboj are said to be divided into two divisions of 52 and 84 clans names (the actual number is however somewhat higher than these figures). Dr J. L. Kamboj observes that more than 15 of the Kamboj clan names overlap with that of the Brahmins and over 80 overlap with other Kshatriya and Rajput clans of northern India. But according to S Kirpal Singh, the respective figures are over 25 overlaping with Brahmins and over 100 overlaping with other Kshatriyas and Rajputs. [4] In his well known book Glossary of Tribes and Castes of Punjab and North-west Frontier Province [5], British ethnographer and ethnologist, H. A. Rose, had also observed in early 20th century that there is seen an overlap of the Kamboj clan names with that of the Brahmins and other Kshatriyas. Rose also admitted that the reason of this overlap was not clear to him [6]. But, today with all the information provided in the articles in Wikipedia about the Kambojas, it would seem clear as to why there is such an overlap.

List of Kamboj Gotras (clans)

For more expanded list of Kamboj clans, click here

52 Gotras: Abdal, Ajpal Or Ajapal, Angiarey, Asoi, Bahujad, Bajye or Bajne, Bage, Ban Or Bhaun or Bhawan, Barar, Batti Or Bhatti, Basra, Chak, Chandi, Chandna Or Chandne or Chand, Chatrath, Daberah, Dhanju, Dhot or Dhudi, Dote, Dulai, Handa Or Handey, Jaiya or Jie or Joiye, Jammu, Jaspal Or Jakhpal, Jatmal, Josan Or Jossan, Jaura Or Jaure, Judge, Kadi or Karhi, Khere, Kosle Or Kausle, Karanpal, Kaura Or Kaure, Kayar, Khinda Or Khinde, Kirgil, Lori Or Laure, Mardak, Mehrok Or Mirok, Momi, Mutti or Moti, Nadha Or Nandha Or Nandhey, Nagpal, Nagri Or Nagra, Nandan, Nibber Or Nibher, Padhu Or Pandhu, Patanroy Or Patanrai, Pran, Ratanpal, Sama, Sandha Or Sandhey, Sandher, Sandheyer or Sandheer, Sawan, Soi or Sohi, Shahi, Suner, Tandne, Tarikha or Trikhe, Thind, Tume, Turne Or Turna, Vinayak, Pathan, Unmal

84 Gotras : Aglawe, Ambri Or Ambrey, Angotre, Bagwan Or Bagyan Or Bagban, Bahia, Bangwaye, Bangar Or Bangare, Banjahal Or Bhunjal, Banur, Barham, Barhgotey, Bassi Or Basi, Bastorh, Beeharh Or Beharh, Bhujang, Brahman Or Behman, Chamri Or Chimre, Chaupal Or Chaufal, Cherta Or Churta Or Churawat, Chhanan Or Chhiyanwe, Chhichhoti Or Chhichhote Or Chhachhate Or Chhachha, Chichare Or Chachare, Chimne Or Chimni or Chimna, Chine Or Chini or China, Churiye Or Chirwey Or Chidey Or Charway, Dange, Datane Or Dotane or Datana Or Dutane, Dehar Or Dehal, Dehgal Or Duggal, Dhare, Dheel Or Dhillan, Dhehte, Dode, Doliyan, Fukni, Gadre or Gadra, Gagre or Gagra, Gande Or Gandi, Gandheyor or Gandhare Or Gandhi, Gaure Or Gore Or Rai Gore Or Gori, Geelawe, Ghasitey, Gogan Or Gugan, Gosiley, Gal or Gayile or Goyale, Ghangra, Harse, Jade or Jarhe, Jagman, Jande, Jangle Or Jangli, Jhamb Or Jham, Jhand Or Jhandu, Kalra Or Kalre, Kalar, Kalsia Or Kalsi Or Kalas, Camari or Kamari or Khamare, Khokhar, Kokar Or Kakar Or Kakra, Kukri Or Kukar, Lahere Or Lehri, Lakhi, Lahndey, Latte, Lahange Or Lahinga Or Lahinde, Lall, Machhliye Or Machhle, Magu or Mage, Makore Or Makkar, Mall, Momsarang, Sarang, Mandey or Mande, Melle Or Meliye Or Malle, Multani, Nagambr Or Nigambar, Nehriye Or Nehre Or Ner Or Naru,Or Nehru Or Nauhriye, Nepal Or Nipal or Naipal, Nuri, Pandey Or Pandhey, Padhasi, Sainik, Sandle, Sathand, Senpati Or Senapati, Sapre Or Sapra Or Sawre, Sarnote Or Sarkude, Satte, Sauki or Soki, Soni, Suhagi Or Suhage, Sunehre, Silahre/Sulahre/Sulehre, Sulhiro, Tande, Tagal Or Tugal, Taparhiye, Thathai Or Thathaiya or Thathe, Thingrey Or Thengrey, Topchi References

See also

* Kambojas * Kamboja * Kamboh

Great Kambojas/kamboh's • 	nawab waqar-ul-mulk kamboh • 	Baba Bhumman Shah Kamboh • 	Shaheed Udham Singh • 	Bhai Dayala Ji • 	Bhai Mahi Singh Sunam • 	Akali Phula Singh • 	Master Sunder Singh •      King Porus • 	Bhai Mani Singh

Re:
, as correctly predicted by you, the anon wasn't sincere with their edit. But the relevant text of this article is copy-pasted from the source. So there's an issue of copyvio. The book in question is available on the net – see my subsequent edit summaries. Anyway, here's the relevant quote: - NitinMlk (talk) 19:33, 17 May 2019 (UTC)


 * Oh, dear. That will have been in the article for years - there was someone massively involved in this Kamboh/Kamboja stuff who got into trouble for misrepresenting very obscure sources, copyvio, original research and all the other sins you can think of. I'll try to track it down in the history but if it is that far back there may be an issue trying to revision delete it - I'll have to ask, whom I know is overloaded with this sort of thing anyway.
 * Thanks for the link. Google Books doesn't display the same content all over the world, hence my problem. Will have to try a paraphrase tomorrow, if I have time. - Sitush (talk) 20:10, 17 May 2019 (UTC)
 * It isn't there before 2018 and is there with this edit but I'm too tired to see if it formed part of the back and forth between me and the IP at that time. - Sitush (talk) 20:38, 17 May 2019 (UTC)
 * I can confirm that the content is present in the book, which WorldCat says was published in 1991. It was added here at 06:49, March 14, 2018. Fixed — Diannaa 🍁 (talk) 20:43, 17 May 2019 (UTC)

Mughal era claims
In the During Mughal rule section, there is a quotation from the cited source of M. Athar Ali, i.e. ref 2. Although their is no such quotation in the source, the content of the line is supported by it. Only odd thing is that the source mentions Kambu instead of Kamboj or Kamboh. Is Kambu synonymous with Kamboj? BTW, here's the relevant quote: PS: For the relevant details, see my next edit summary. - NitinMlk (talk) 00:22, 19 May 2019 (UTC)