Talk:Kamenica, Kosovo

The Name
If sombody have UN acceptit evidence that the name of the city is not Kamenicë but is Kosovska Kamenica, then this articel must be unter the name: Kamenicë and the page named "Kosovska Kamenica" must be redirect. My evidence you kann see in UNMIK oficiale page and documentation. --Hipi Zhdripi 00:17, 9 April 2006 (UTC)

Unitet Naticion Law in Kosovo
The user of the city names in English Language (newer version from the UN liable pilari in Kosovo for such think ) The original page of the Law (1. in albanian L., 2.Serbian L.) -
 * 1) http://www.osce.org/kosovo/13982.html
 * 1) http://www.unmikonline.org/regulations/unmikgazette/03albanian/A2000regs/RA2000_43.htm
 * 2) http://www.unmikonline.org/regulations/unmikgazette/04serbian/SC2000regs/RSC2000_43.pdf

The UN Law in Kosovo says that the only oficele name are the names presentit in >A< every thinks als is out of Law. This is for albanian language. RREGULLORe NR. 2000/43 UNMIK/REG/2000/43 27 korrik 2000 Mbi numrin, emrat dhe kufinjtë e komunave --- Përfaqësuesi Special i Sekretarit të Përgjithshëm, Në pajtim me autorizimin e tij të dhënë me rezolutën 1244 (1999) të datës 10 qershor 1999 të Këshillit të Sigurimit të Kombeve të Bashkuara, Duke marrë parasysh Rregulloren nr. 1999/1 të datës 25 korrik 1999, të ndryshuar, të Misionit të Administratës së Përkohshme të Kombeve të Bashkuara në Kosovë (UNMIK) mbi autorizimin e Administratës së Përkohshme në Kosovë dhe Rregulloren Nr. 1999/24 të datës 12 dhjetor 1999 të UNMIK-ut mbi ligjin në fuqi në Kosovë, Me qëllim të qartësimit të numrit, emrave, shtrirja dhe kufinjve të komunave para mbajtjes së zgjedhjeve komunale në Kosovë, Shpall sa vijon: Neni 1 Numri dhe emrat e komunave Kosova ka tridhjetë komuna ashtu siç figurojnë në Tabelën ‘A’ të kësaj rregulloreje. Komunikimi zyrtar nuk përmban asnjë emër për ndonjë komunë i cili nuk figuron në Tabelën ‘A’ të kësaj rregulloreje, përveç që në ato komuna ku komunitetet etnike a gjuhësore joshqiptare dhe joserbe përbëjnë një pjesë substanciale, emrat e komunave jepen edhe në gjuhët e atyre komuniteteve. Neni 2 Shtrirja dhe kufinjtë e komunave Shtrirja e çdo komune dhe kufinjtë e tyre skicohen nga zonat e tyre përbërëse kadastrale. Zonat kadastrale të cilat përbëjnë çdo komunë figurojnë në Tabelën ‘B’ të kësaj rregulloreje. Neni 3 Zbatimi Përfaqësuesi Special i Sekretarit të Përgjithshëm mund të lëshojë direktiva administrative në lidhje me zbatimin e kësaj rregulloreje. Neni 4 Ligji i zbatueshëm Kjo rregullore mbulon çdo dispozitë në ligjin e zbatueshëm e cila nuk është në përputhje me të. Neni 5 Hyrja në fuqi Kjo rregullore hyn në fuqi më 27 korrik 2000. Bernard Kouchner Përfaqësuesi Special i Sekretarit të Përgjithshëm The UN Law in Kosovo says that the only oficele name are the names presentit in >A< every thinks als is out of Law. This is for serbian language. UREDBA BR. 2000/43 UNMIK/URED/2000/43 27. jul 2000. godine O BROJU, IMENIMA I GRANICAMA OP[TINA Specijalni predstavnik Generalnog sekretara, Shodno ovla{}ewu koje mu je dato Rezolucijom Saveta bezbednosti Ujediwenih nacija 1244 (1999) od 10. juna 1999. godine, Na osnovu Uredbe br. 1999/1 od 25. jula 1999. godine Privremene administrativne misije Ujediwenih nacija na Kosovu (UNMIK), sa izmenama i dopunama, o ovla{}ewima Privremene uprave na Kosovu i na osnovu Uredbe UNMIK-a br. 2000/24 od 12. decembra 2000. godine o zakonu koji je u primeni na Kosovu, (hier is oficele user) U ciqu razja{wavawa broja, imena, oblasti i granica op{tina pre odr`avawa op{tinskih izbora na Kosovu, Ovim objavquje slede}e: Clan 1 BROJ I IMENA OPSTINA 1.1 Kosovo ima trideset opstina kao sto je dato u Tabeli A u dodatku ovoj Uredbi. 1.2 Zvani~na komunikacija ne mo`e da sadrzi bilo koje ime za opstinu koje nije naziv odredjen u Tabeli A ove Uredbe, osim u onim opstinama gde etni~ke i jezi~ke zajednice, koje nisu srpske i albanske ~ine znatan deo stanovni{tva, gde se imena op{tina daju i na jezicima tih zajednica. Clan 2 PODRU^JA I GRANICE OP[TINA Podru~je svake op{tine i wene granice su ocrtane wenim sastavnim katastarskim zonama. Katastarske zone koje ~ine svaku op{tinu su odre|ene u Tabeli B prilo`enoj u dodatku ovoj Uredbi. Clan 3 PRIMENA Specijalni predstavnik Generalnog sekretara mo`e da donese administrativno uputstvo u vezi sa primenom ove Uredbe. Clan 4 ZAKON KOJI JE U PRIMENI Ova Uredba zamewuje svaku odredbu zakona koji je u primeni a koja nije saglasna sa wom. Clan 5 STUPAWE NA SNAGU Ova Uredba stupa na snagu 27. jula 2000. godine. Bernar Ku{ner Specijalni predstavnik Generalnog sekretara tabel of contens >A< TABELA ‘A’ (alb) RASPORED A (ser.) Emrat e komunave (alb.)IMENA OPSTINA (serb) Albanski Srpski 01 Deçan \Decani 02 Gjakovë \Djakovica 03 Gllogovc \Glogovac 04 Gjilan \Gnilane 05 Dragash \Dragas 06 Istog \Istok 07 Kaçanik \Kacanik 08 Klinë\ Klina 09 Fushë Kosovë\ Kosovo Polje 10 Kamenicë \Kamenica 11 Mitrovicë \Kosovska Mitrovica 12 Leposaviq \Leposavic 13 Lipjan \Lipqan 14 Novobërdë \Novo Brdo 15 Obiliq \Obilic 16 Rahovec\ Orahovac 17 Pejë\ Pec 18 Podujevë\ Podujevo 19 Prishtinë \Pristina 20 Prizren \Prizren 21 Skenderaj\ Srbica 22 Shtime\ Stimqe 23 Shtërpcë\ Strpce 24 Suharekë\ Suva Reka 25 Ferizaj \Urosevac 26 Viti \Vitina 27 Vushtrri\ Vucitrn 28 Zubin Potok \Zubin Potok 29 Zveçan\ Zvecan 30 Malishevë\ Malisevo

If sambody have a argument Im waitting. In another cases you are going to interpret the dokumets (you are out of UN Law) and you dont have argumet, you dont work for Wikipedia but are destroing the Wikipedia image. I know that my english is not so gut, but a desinformation is not gut for Wikipedia and for the peopel in Kosovo. You can have a problem with "Haage". This tabel is speeken better then I .--Hipi Zhdripi 20:58, 13 April 2006 (UTC)

No argumet
'''No argumet!!! please dont inteprete the documents '''

Sombody have putit this Kosovo place in Serbia stub or category or template here with out argumet. We dont have a argumet that Kosovo is part of S/M. We have tha Constitution of this countrie but we have the rez. 1244 wich is more importen for the Wikipedia and is saying that Kosovo it is a part of Yougoslavia and is prototoriat of UN. Till we dont have a clearly argument from UN, aricel about Kosovo must be out of this stub or category or template. Pleas dont make the discution with intepretation or the Law wich are not accordin to 1244. Everybodoy can do that but that is nothing for Wikipedia.--Hipi Zhdripi 04:48, 17 April 2006 (UTC)

Name
I will pu the official name on brackets""--Bindicapriqi (talk) 15:50, 3 January 2008 (UTC)


 * I don't think this is an appropriate name. Dardanë is the official name of exactly zero places in the world and is misleading. We should restore it back to just Kosovska Kamenica.--Thomas.macmillan (talk) 18:30, 3 January 2008 (UTC)

Unitet Naticion Law in Kosovo and Wikipedia
Before two years, I have presented the argument. In thate time it was clear, thate, Serbia with or without Kosovo, is going to be part of Europe Card for citys names. And Europ Card for citys names (komuna) is adopted from Kosovar Govermend. My dier friends in English Wikipedia, you are maken not a litel problem, but with all information, you are changen the oficial names of the citys in Kosovo.

You have taket the Serbial Law or some imagenedet rouls, als more importen thane UN Law. English Wikipedia is not working/existing under the Serbian Law, but under UN Law. Don´t be wondering if somebody is acusing the English Wikipedia for anti-UN propaganda and "spaming" desinformation to the internet iusers.

The mandat of UN in Kosovo is hight livel thane Serbian Law - witch since the UNMIK is in Kosovo, dont exist anymore for Kosovo.


 * 1) You are working agains the Kosovo Law
 * 2) You are working agains the Europen Card for city names
 * 3) You are working agains the UNMIK - Law
 * 4) You are working agains the UN - Law

The LAW of Kosovo, Eropen, UNMIK and UN, thate I have presented here before two years nobady diden respect.

Becose of this I acuse you for desinformations and working aganis this LAWS, and with you works here you are helping to destabisate the sitution in Balkan. DON SAY THAT YOUR HANDS ARE CLEAR, DONT BE PART OF PROPAGANDA WITCH MOTIVAT THE PRIMITIV PEOPEL, PLEASE REPECT THE UN - LAW

THE SYS. AND ADMINISTRATORS OF ENGLISH WIKIPEDIA HAVE RESPOSIBLITI TO STOP MAKEN WIKIPEDIA AS PART OF PROPAGANDA WITCH MOTIVATE PRIMITIV PEOPEL.

SINCE 2 YEARS, ENGLISH WIKIPEDIA WITH NOT RESPECTING THE UN LAW, IS HELPING IN DESTABILSATION OF THE BALKAN REGION. - Hipi Zhdripi —Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.70.183.85 (talk) 00:26, 29 March 2008 (UTC)

Requested move

 * The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section. 

The result of the move request was moved Aervanath (talk) 21:34, 5 June 2009 (UTC)

Kamenica (Kosovo) → Kosovska Kamenica &mdash; Per use in news sources. 15:59, 25 May 2009 (UTC)

It is much better to move it back to Kosovska Kamenica, to reflect all other Kosovo name articles, and following google news search:


 * (107 results for Kosovska Kamenica)
 * (Only 44 for Kamenica alone)

This is only relevant source. Pagliaccioknows (talk) 15:59, 25 May 2009 (UTC)


 * I don't see why not, per Naming conventions. Since a fuller name exists, disambiguator is not needed. Nikola (talk) 16:44, 25 May 2009 (UTC)
 * I agree. Move it to Kosovska Kamenica.--Andrija (talk) 17:52, 25 May 2009 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

usn ncxy<sd mnd 8sdsa mdsnjs bs smnd sdsosm duigu[D,SD —Preceding unsigned comment added by 62.162.217.77 (talk) 08:12, 6 May 2010 (UTC)

Albanian name
Albanians make up 80% of the population, the Albanian language is used in local administration. Please colleagues Serbs to accept reality. This is not the 1999th years when Albanians persecuted for their nation. Thanks--Sokac121 (talk) 11:52, 10 July 2013 (UTC)

Requested move 2

 * The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section. 

The result of the move request was: moved. Jenks24 (talk) 14:08, 1 July 2014 (UTC)

Kosovska Kamenica → Kamenica, Kosovo – Per WP:CommonName. In the English language, the "Kosovska" part is dropped in the majority of cases and the town is simply referred to as just "Kamenica". This is why I believe the article should be moved to "Kamenica, Kosovo" to reflect the town's Common Name in the English language as it will be more identifiable and recognisable for our readers/ audience. Here is my evidence: Not only is it the Common Name in the English language, but it is also the name officially used by local government in the English language. IJA (talk) 19:25, 23 June 2014 (UTC)
 * Google Books All time (I've set it to search for English language only books):
 * "Kamenica" Kosovo -wikipedia = 158 results
 * "Kosovska Kamenica" -wikipedia = 68 results
 * Google Books from January 2008 to June 2014 (I've set it to search for English language only books):
 * "Kamenica" Kosovo -wikipedia = 51 Results
 * "Kosovska Kamenica" -wikipedia = 13 Results
 * Google Scholar All time:
 * "Kamenica" Kosovo -Wikipedia = 548 results
 * "Kosovska Kamenica" -Wikipedia = 95 results
 * Google Scholar from 2008 to 2014:
 * "Kamenica" Kosovo -Wikipedia = 249 results
 * "Kosovska Kamenica" -Wikipedia = 33 results
 * Google Search
 * "Kamenica" Kosovo -wikipedia = 3,880,000 results
 * "Kosovska Kamenica" -Wikipedia = 1,480,000 results


 * Support - As nominator. IJA (talk) 19:25, 23 June 2014 (UTC)
 *  Oppose  - Your position has much more hits for Kamenica, Serbia.--Antidiskriminator (talk) 22:16, 23 June 2014 (UTC)
 * Comment - You do realise there are at least 9 towns/ villiages called "Kamenica" in Serbia (10 if you consider Kosovo to be apart of Serbia), your search results will get more hits because it will include the 9 settlements called "Kamenica" in Serbia. There is only one town called Kamenica in Kosovo and as proven above, that's it's Common Name in the English language. Your argument is flawed and ignorant. IJA (talk) 09:50, 24 June 2014 (UTC)
 * I did not support the change to Kamenica, Serbia, I pointed to it to illustrate that your search results are not valid argument for the change. No doubt that you realize that your search results do not include only Kosovska Kamenica nor they exclude any other Kamenica in Serbia or elsewhere. Therefore they are not valid argument for renaming.--Antidiskriminator (talk) 11:30, 24 June 2014 (UTC)
 * You just have to look through them, try the 2008-2014 results to see that they are about the town in Kosovo and not another town with a similar name. That's why when I searched for just "Kamenica" I also included "Kosovo" to make sure it was in reference to the town in Kosovo and no other town/ villiage with a similar name. IJA (talk) 11:56, 24 June 2014 (UTC)
 * You just refuted your own position. A big time. The second source in the list (The Holy Wars of King Wladislas and Sultan Murad) points to Kamenica in Bulgaria or near Mihajlovac. The third source (Eastern Europe) refers to the place in Macedonia. The fourth source (PHOTOS THAT SHOOK the WORLD) refers to place north of Srebrenica, Bosnia. The fifth source (Der nationalsozialistische Genozid an den Roma Osteuropas) refers to Kamenica nad Cirochou. All the best.--Antidiskriminator (talk) 12:54, 24 June 2014 (UTC)
 * Yes, google searches aren't 100% perfect but the majority of results are in relation to the town in Kosovo; you've just cherry picked odd examples which aren't. IJA (talk) 13:28, 24 June 2014 (UTC)
 * One out of first six is not majority. You said "You just have to look through them, try the 2008-2014 results to see that they are about the town in Kosovo". When I explained that 5 out of first 6 sources you pointed at do not refer to the town in Kosovo, you accused me for "cherry picking". You again refuted your position. Unjustified accusation for cherry picking is disruptive. Please don't repeat it. --Antidiskriminator (talk) 19:31, 24 June 2014 (UTC)
 * They're the last pages of a google books search aka the scraping the barrel section of the search, you have to go to the beginning pages of a search for the most relevant searches. This doesn't change the fact that "Kamenica" (in relation to Kosovo) got a lot more search results than the mere "13" search results which "Kosovska Kamenica" got. "Kamenica" when in relation to Kosovo got a lot more than 13, so thanks for proving my point on Common Name. IJA (talk) 20:32, 24 June 2014 (UTC)
 * I went to page before the last page. The first one (Regularizing property rights in Kosovo and elsewhere) is actually about "Kosovska Kamenica", the third (Religion in Eastern Europe) says "Kos. Kamenica", the fourth (Transforming National Holidays) is about "Sremska Kamenica", the fifth (Historical Dictionary of the Republic of Macedonia) is about " Kamenica, the region of Cepino in south Bulgaria,", the seventh (Hammond world atlas) is about "Kesovska Kamenica", the eight (Les Capacités Et Les Limites de L'Union Européenne) is about author "Musa Kamenica", the ninth (Twilight of Impunity: The War Crimes Trial of Slobodan) again says " Kosovska Kamenica Kamenice", the tenth (Hostages of Tension: Intimidation and Harassment of Ethnic ) says "Sremska Kamenica". Two out of ten for Kamenica at the best. The situation is the same on the page before this. There are Kamenicas in Bosnia, Bulgaria... By pointing to this search results you actually proved that your search results are not valid argument for renaming. We both know that small group of editors will join this discussion to circumvent the normal process of reaching the consensus. The search results are only an excuse for their support !votes. You could put recipe for baclava instead, and the outcome would be the same. I do not want to participate in that so I will strike trough my Oppose !vote. All the best.--Antidiskriminator (talk) 22:37, 24 June 2014 (UTC)
 * If you really wanted, to make sure that every individual book is actually relating to the town eastern Kosovo, I will individually go through all 51 results for "Kamenica" Kosovo -wikipedia and all 13 results for "Kosovska Kamenica" -wikipedia; but I'm pretty certain which will have the majority backing per common name. Mathematically, there has to be more '"Kamenica" Kosovo' than '"Kosovska Kamenica"'. You'll have to wait until tomorrow evening (European time) when I have the capacity to do it. Your choice. I hope you realise that I'm not proposing we change the article name to the Albanian name "Kamenicë", but to the Common English language name "Kamenica". Regards IJA (talk) 23:02, 24 June 2014 (UTC)


 * Oppose there are at least 9 towns/ villiages called "Kamenica" in Serbia (10 if you consider Kosovo to be apart of Serbia). And this is commonname, only Kamenica is not... — Preceding unsigned comment added by Anastan (talk • contribs) 16:28, 24 June 2014 (UTC)
 * Comment - That comment doesn't make sense. It doesn't change the fact that the "Kosovska" is dropped from the town's name in the English language as shown by the above evidence. Please use arguments in line with wikipedia policy. Also there is only one town in Kosovo called "Kamenica", so why isn't "Kamenica, Kosovo" a suitable name? IJA (talk) 17:08, 24 June 2014 (UTC)
 * Support - per IJA. -- Ivan  OS  17:13, 24 June 2014 (UTC)
 * Support, per IJA; I can't help but notice that both Oppose votes are obvious fallacies. How would any competent good-faith editor oppose a move to Kamenica, Kosovo on the basis that there are villages in another country called Kamenica? bobrayner (talk) 21:47, 24 June 2014 (UTC)
 * Comment. Quite simply, what to you is another country is not universally recognized as excluding Kosovo. And such remarks are incredibly cavalier on any principle of being a "competent good-faith editor" when Wikipedia policy is to tread carefully and many other editors do indeed treat Kosovo with kid gloves - making sure neither to hint at independence or integration into the other country. --213.198.215.49 (talk) 18:24, 25 June 2014 (UTC)
 * Comment - Please see WP:NOTAFORUM. WhiteWriter, this is irrelevant to the discussion at hand. IJA (talk) 21:41, 25 June 2014 (UTC)
 * 213.198.215.49, you should log back into your account. bobrayner (talk) 05:38, 26 June 2014 (UTC)
 * Comment. First, I don't have an account, second, you don't have to be called Whitewriter to know the proposer is playing games with the intention of having all Kosovan settlements shifted to their Albanian titles. Claiming the bigger Google result is the mother of all smokescreens as it is down to search method - which is why I can personally find more results for Kosovska. On the topic of forums, I was merely rebutting the remarks made by somebody purporting to be a good-faith editor. Now are we going to sit here and pretend that "Serbia is another state" is not exactly what this is about? Please! Do me a favour. In so far as Kamenica outweighs Kosovska, you'll find the same for Sremska Mitrovica without Sremska (English, Serbian). Locals themselves sometimes remove adjectives (or sometimes they'll just say Sresma or Kosovska without the main noun) because the whole name is a mouthful. I don't see a proposed move across the rest of the identical articles. You still have Slavonski Brod and Makedonski Brod despite these two being in genuine different states which recognize one another, and despite locals often reducing the title to Brod in both cases. Furthermore, the dropping of Kosovska from Kamenica just as with Mitrovica was not something born out of Kosovo's declaration of independence. It long predated the milestone. However, the Serbian name of the town remains Kosovska Kamenica in contrast to Kamenica (Dimitrovgrad) which is solely known as Kamenica. So rather than playing "proposer's statistics", the proposer should spell out the facts: "I propose we move this article away from its Serbian title to its Albanian title: which of the two do other editors believe should stand and why?". Only a fool would honestly believe that the proposer and his/her supporters are not engaging in yet another dirty scheme to Albanianize Kosovo-related subjects. I believe the contents of this statement are valid for the discussion and do not treat the page as a forum. --213.198.215.49 (talk) 08:51, 26 June 2014 (UTC)
 * Comment - The Albanian names for the town are "Kamenicë" and "Dardanë", neither of these names have been proposed as the article title. I have proposed we move the article title to the Common English language name of the town. IJA (talk) 09:14, 26 June 2014 (UTC)
 * Also I do not give a **** what the Serbian or Albanian name of the town is, all I care about is what the common English language name of the town is because this is English Wikipedia. You can use the Albanian name of the town on Albanian Wikipedia and the Serbian name of the town on Serbian Wikipedia. This is English Language Wikipedia, we use English language names. IJA (talk) 09:42, 26 June 2014 (UTC)


 * Support, per IJA Bazonka (talk) 07:17, 25 June 2014 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

Alternative names
Please, why are you trying to eliminate "Kosovska Kamenica" nersion of the name from the first sentence ? You cited the above as a place where consensus was reached for this, but that is simply not true. Consensus was reached to move the page to "Kamenica, Kosovo", but not to eliminate "Kosovska Kamenica" from the article. According to MOS:LEADALT, "when title is a name, significant alternative names for the topic should be mentioned in the article, usually in the first sentence...". And, "Kosovska Kamenica" is certainly significant alternative name, that is shown is the above discussion. Your edit is directly in contradiction to the Manual of Style, so you need to establish clear consensus first, before applying the change.  Vanjagenije  (talk)  16:34, 4 March 2015 (UTC)
 * conensus was reached,Kamenica is the name in English,look the talk page it was changed by votes,I am not trying to eliminate anything The Kosovska part is in Serbian language as the article says.Lindi29 (talk) 16:53, 4 March 2015 (UTC)
 * No, . Consensus was reached to use "Kamenica, Kosovo" as the title because that is the most commonly used name in English sources. Many subjects, including this one, have more than one name in English. Only one of those names may be used as the title, and that should be the most commonly used name. Other, alternative, names should used in the first sentence as per MOS:LEADALT. Above discussion only centered on the question which name is the most commonly used name in English. Nobody implied that Kosovska Kamenica is not a legitimate alternative name. So, please do not use that consensus as a justification for something that was clearly not even discussed (the validity of "Kosovska Kamenica" as an alternative name was not discussed).  Vanjagenije   (talk)  17:00, 4 March 2015 (UTC)

"Dardana" should be removed, as it is not official.--Z oupan 01:52, 12 March 2017 (UTC)

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