Talk:Kaname Tōsen

Phrase
"However, it is later revealed that this phrase is another way to say "take the path that Tōsen himself chooses", since his eyes cannot see blood and therefore they only "see blood" when he is personally unhappy."

I don't think that this is particularily true. Tousen truly believes that the path of least bloodshed is going with Aizen, and though some may view this as being greedy or unhappy, the story never implies this. Through all his actions he has been acting in the best interests of peace, not himself. If he didn't have his background detailed then I would probably agree with you, however, his mentor taught him always to take the path of least bloodshed and to deliver justice wherever he could. He may even be following Aizen just to kill him later, this would be the path of the absolute LEAST bloodshed, right? (As opposed to having a massive war between Hollows, SS, Vizards and so forth).

So in summary it was never revealed or implied that Tousen was that vapid, and I think that sentence should be reworded or removed.

This part:

since his eyes cannot see blood and therefore they only "see blood" when he is personally unhappy.

may be problematic, so feel free to re-word/remove it, but the previous sentence is not my opinion. It's taken from ch. 178 p. 12 (I think 13 in the scanlation). He says 'Whatever path I walk (choose) is the path to justice'. -- Ynhockey 05:02, 15 October 2005 (UTC)


 * "Whatever path I walk is the path to justice" Is synonymous with the statement "I will always walk the path to justice, whatever I do." It's just an issue of how you intone your words. I'm pretty sure the Tousen does indeed think the path he has chosen is the least bloody, as he probably believes it will lead to an ultimate peace and union between Hollows and Shinigami. --Tjstrf 07:05, 20 October 2005 (UTC)

Just curious, where does it say:
This, "She was soon accepted by the Academy; however, her husband killed her because she scolded him for killing a comrade over a petty argument." ? I don't remember where that was in the manga.

Administrator Tōsen
In Chapter 240 Page 11, Luppi refers to Tōsen as Administrator Tōsen. The title may not fit exactly due to translation but administrator is probably the best translation for the word.Gdo01 18:18, 27 August 2006 (UTC)

Enhanced Powers
Anybody else find it weird that Tousen lost to Kenpachi who was defeated by Ichigo. Yet after the hougyoku arc he was able to destroy Grimmjaw's arm while Ichigo was having trouble damaging Grimmjaw even with his hollow powers and the black getsuga tensho. I know Ichigo did some damage to him but no where near did he have as much an easy time on it. Tousen easily destroyed his arm before he could even react while Ichigo who has his speed enhanced still couldn't match Grimmjaw on even terms. Has Tousen gone through some amazing power boost, or gotten hollow powers of his own. If someone doesn't reply or object soon I'm going to include this developement in the article - Noman953


 * There are a lot of plausible explanations about Tōsen's power, and speculation about it should not go into the article. For instance, the fact that he lost to Zaraki does not mean he is weaker, the same applies to the Ichigo vs. Zaraki fight. Here are a few things to consider:
 * It's possible that, because Ichigo borrowed energy from his inner hollow during his fight with Zaraki, he was at a much higher power level, similar to the time when he was masked for 11 seconds and completely owned Grimmjow. You need to also remember that Zaraki came out will less severe injuries from the fight and only 'lost' it because his sword shattered.
 * Tōsen may have beaten Zaraki if he knew about the latter's power level and abilities. You could say he lost because of the element of surprise - he did not expect Zaraki to be completely unafraid of his final release, etc. He may also have been holding back against Zaraki all up until the moment he knew he was losing, so as not to expose his superior power which Komamura (and others) were not supposed to know about.
 * There are probably other explanations and I will leave that to other users. -- Ynhockey (Talk) 23:34, 18 November 2006 (UTC)


 * no idea but good point really we wont know until he shows his power but still you must think he seemed more like he was going to let zaraki suffer before he killed him so me might not have been using his full power and also it seemed like he got grimmjow by surprise NekrosKoma 23:09, 18 November 2006 (UTC)


 * yes Ynhockey i would say that cihigo did borrow some of his hollows powers since the hollow mask appered on his person after the fight, BTW your post might have dissapeared because i started writing mine before you then submitted mine after yours

Tosen also attacked Grimmjow when his back was turned. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.181.91.17 (talk) 00:26, 27 January 2008 (UTC)


 * Also im pretty sure even Grimmjow knows better than to fight Aizens soul reaper compatriots. You also have to factor into this that any normal soul reaper would probably be laying on the ground dying after being hit with Tosens shikai that rains swords upon them, Zaraki lived due to the fact he's strong and his sheer amount of spiritual pressue dulls his enemies blades. I dont find it any bit odd or suspicious he could harm Grimmjow like that. a surprise attack like that shouldnt really be compared to a battle between individuals either. The element of the fight is completely different. Anyone else notice how noman seems to be a bit of a troll?--Licourtrix (talk) 09:11, 1 July 2008 (UTC)

could someone check...
The "correct" kanji for Suzumushi "cricket" is 鈴虫, but given Kubo's tendency to use different kanji, 清虫 could be correct. Does anyone have a source on this? --Pentasyllabic 03:31, 29 November 2006 (UTC)
 * 清虫 is correct. Check 126-16. -- Ynhockey (Talk) 15:20, 1 December 2006 (UTC)


 * Re: translation - Jim Breen's WWWJDIC translates 鳴け as sing (bark, purr, etc., animal sounds), and 飛蝗 as grasshopper; individually it means flying + locust/grasshopper. --Pentasyllabic 18:22, 1 December 2006 (UTC)
 * First of all, Jim Breen doesn't translate it as sing. In EDICT (the part of WWWJDIC that contains words - not names etc.) it says, for naku (鳴く): 'to bark, to purr, to make sound (animal)'. However, the kanji itself (鳴) also means 'to chime' (narasu) and 'to ring' (naru). Any of those translations is valid because Kubo usually displays commands and terms ideographically instead of phonetically. Phonetically, naku (泣く) can also mean to sing, as in bird song (according to EDICT anyway), but this is a seldom used meaning. Usually it means to cry (as in, shed tears). So, 'to sing' is definitely not the meaning here, considering it's a different ideograph. Also does it look like Suzumushi is singing? 'Ring, Suzumushi' could work, but it's ambiguous in English, therefore 'chime' is more appropriate. About the grasshopper, that would be correct ideographically I guess. Again, not phonetically but that's OK. -- Ynhockey (Talk) 12:55, 2 December 2006 (UTC)

Notable Battles
I'm on an anti notable battles section campaign and you'll find this same message in some other articles. I don't want to be the obnoxious wikipedian who self righteously deletes other peoples contributions. But I feel this section is useless and whatever in it should be in the synopsis. because there should be some symmetry between articles. Either all characters should have notable battles section or none should have it at all. Noman953
 * What about those whoe have not been in any notable battles or any battle whatsoever? --Bushido Brown 21:35, 6 February 2007 (UTC)

Two release commands
is it possible that his two release commands may spawn from the fact that Suzumushi has had two owners and one of them spawns from tosen and the other from the previous owner?
 * No, because nothing in the series has in any way supported that idea. --tjstrf talk 21:28, 27 May 2007 (UTC)
 * Yes, it hasn't been stated anywhere as far as I know, but it would be quite logical. Then again a Zanpakuto should cease to exist after it's owner has died (they are part of him/her).. So, logic-schmogic. I'd say yes on the idea but I'm not suggesting it should be added on the article.. --Petrim (talk) 21:03, 11 February 2008 (UTC)
 * I think its more of seperate abilities of his shikai each with thier own command. like the abilities of Uraharas. Also the Sealed Sword Frenzy OVA showed that some zanpakuto do survive their owners demise. I'd venture saying Tosen can use it so well because his personality and goal is similar to that of its original owner. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Licourtrix (talk • contribs) 09:02, 1 July 2008 (UTC)

blindness
“He has been blind since birth [...] although this was not always the case.” Huh? —Frungi 18:12, 28 May 2007 (UTC)
 * I just noticed some guy fixed the sentence soon after I posted, so, never mind. —Frungi 03:38, 30 May 2007 (UTC)

Voice Actor
This is really getting ridiculous, The voice actor is JB Blanc, it is not Dave Wittenberg, I thought it was him at first in around episode 20 when he had a line that was basically "he couldn't make it here today.", So I can tell you that its not wittenberg, the most recent episode (37) had a lot more dialogue from Tosen and I can tell you from sound experience it is not Wittenberg, it is JB Blanc, because he has stated he is in it on his own website which can be found on his wiki profile JB Blanc. I don't know if this is here But I HAVE personally and seriously communicated with him and have talked with him, so I do know him and I would never make something like this up. It is also his voice because if you listen closely to Tousen's dialogue you can here a slight british accent. Which is exactly what Blanc is.--Jack Cox 04:32, 25 June 2007 (UTC)


 * For the last fucking time, find a source. Seriously, pay attention to what you're being told. Read WP:RS. — Someguy0830 (T | C) 04:35, 25 June 2007 (UTC)


 * And I'm telling you if you actually watched the show you'd realize you can't find a source because the credits only have a certain set of actors on the show that appear at the end of every credit, because they cast never changes unless the ending theme song changes, JB Blanc's name does not appear in the credits, BUT he has pasted on his site that he has done work on this series in an unknown role and This is the role. I am almost 100% certain on this, so in all seriousness, you need to relax because a lot of people get miscredited on this show, In fact Soi Fong has only had two lines of dialogue and nobody knows who voices her until she gets a huge monologue so please relax.--Jack Cox 04:41, 25 June 2007 (UTC)


 * Original research. Listen, because I'm getting tired of saying this, and repeating what others have told you. What you think is not a reliable source. Find a reliable source. None of this "oh it sounds like" or "I talked to him" crap. Find somewhere reliable that says, without a doubt, that said actor voices this character. — Someguy0830 (T | C) 04:46, 25 June 2007 (UTC)

Looking these two people up on AnimeNewsNetwork - both have Bleach credits to their name, and NEITHER one appears to be Kaname Tousen. Blanc is listed as Makizo Aramaki, a minor 11th division shinigami (the one who took Orihime away before Ishida's fight with Mayuri) and as Arturo Plateado in the Bleach Game "Shattered Blades". Wittenberg is listed as Thug (episode 37). The correct voice actor appears to be David Rasner, who apart from Tousen also has other, unlisted credits.

Blanc - http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/encyclopedia/people.php?id=5052

Wittenberg - http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/encyclopedia/people.php?id=4033

Rasner - http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/encyclopedia/people.php?id=12145

Sorry, not sure how to work out links on this thing. But hopefully that clears things up a little? (talk) 03:44, 23 June 2008 (UTC)

I'd suggest deleting this so that Jack Cox doesn't feel like a lying twat.It gives the talk page a unfriendly appearance. Lets all remember to go by verifiable sources and not personal opinion.--Licourtrix (talk) 09:20, 1 July 2008 (UTC)

Isn't the above a verifiable source? Isn't ANN a reliable enough source to support the above? It even goes so far as to specifically mention the VERY minor roles that the above actors have been included with - if that detail doesn't cover it, what will? This was not my personal opinion, hence the links for those that wish to double check, and with all respect to Jack Cox, these links do seem to settle the matter. (talk) 11:26, 13 July 2008

"Fear of death"
As I mentioned in Gin Ichimaru's discussion, the use of the word "correctly" is pure opinion. The way it was worded in Tōsen's article was an even poorer example than Gin's. Tōsen siding with Aizen has nothing to do with whether or not he is a coward. He clearly stated why he chose to follow Aizen's path, believing it to be the one with least bloodshed. I reworded the sentence, but kept most of what it was saying intact. Talchum (talk) 06:18, 25 November 2007 (UTC)

Eye Color
The most recent manga chapters have revealed Tousen to have no pupils, and thus no eye color. I believe this is worth mentioning. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Adroa (talk • contribs) 01:39, 14 June 2008 (UTC)

I'd delete this but first i want to point out that if you have no pupils then you have solid white eyes.--Licourtrix (talk) 09:17, 1 July 2008 (UTC)
 * A la Neji Hyuga and Byakugan. Like that, but without the accents around where the pupil would be. Not uncommon in anime characters, but the pic just shown isn't really big enough to draw conclusions. 70.138.167.143 (talk) 18:57, 22 September 2008 (UTC)

Updating Kaname's Past
I would like another opinion on this, which is better? The left revision or the right revision --Numyht (talk) 21:33, 1 July 2008 (UTC)

More important than Grimmjow?
Is he really? Because it REALLY doesnt seem like it to me (i am only up to where it is in the english anime though, so does he get more important later on? (I would prefer not to have anything spoiled for me though) It just seems to me that Grimmjow is a major, evil, nonredeemable villain, while Kaname seems like a third in command, not much dialougue, and in fact, i believe hes not even evil (Isnt he being mind controlled by Aizen's Zanpakto?) So why was Grimmjows page deleted but not Kaname?
 * Kaname's is being moved, but you should probably read WP:NOTABILITY. Plot importance doesn't mean shit in terms of whether or not someone has an article. Kaname is immune to Aizen's zanpakuto because he's blind, as covered in both articles. Grimmjow is far from unredeemable, though. If anything, he's more likely to go with the protagonists, because Aizen treats him like shit, and near the end of the Hueco Mundo arc Grimmjow pretty much screws all connections with the Espada... won't spoil any of that for ya 70.138.167.143 (talk) 18:51, 22 September 2008 (UTC)