Talk:Kandahar/Archive 1

Genesis of the name
Historians generally accept that the name Kandahar had its origin in ancient Gandhara kingdom, which existed much before the advent of Alexander.

Gandhara is named after queen Gandhari, wife of blind King Drutharastra of Kuru (kingdom) dated back around 1500 BCE.

About that cool photo...
Why does the caption say "The shrine of Baba Wali" and the name of the photo is "Shrine of Baba Saab.JPG"? And isn't "Baba Saab" some 15 kilometers north of Kandahar city? --MarsRover 01:52, 7 October 2006 (UTC)

Baba Saab is a locally given name...the term "saab" refers to someone's honor. Saab is perhaps comparabale to sir or other similar names. The name "Baba Saab" is given to the closly surounding area, where the shrine is located. The actual person buried inside the shrine is named "Wali". the name "Baba" refers to "father" figure. Very confusing but that's the way things go in Kandahar. NisarKand 07:10, 29 October 2006 (UTC)

Kandhar is said to be founded by Alexender. This is incorrect. Kandhar is mentioned as Gandhar in Mahabharata and infact, Kandhar princess -- Gaandhari is a main character in Mahabharata. Gandhar has been a city and region into existance much before Alexender came to the area.


 * You are confusing modern Qandahar with ancient Gandhara which was a totally different region. The similarities of the names are coincidence. Tājik 00:07, 7 December 2006 (UTC)


 * Alexander the great founded The City that is now called Kandahar. Alexander DID NOT find, invent or create The Name Kandahar. Prior to 330 B.C., the present city of Kandahar was at a short distance away from where it is siting now, and it was called Mundigak. The entire population of Mundigak moved into the new location...where the city now is.--NisarKand 23:33, 30 December 2006 (UTC)

Why is the disputed tag displayed in the name section of this article? What is being disputed?--NisarKand 18:40, 31 December 2006 (UTC)

Accuracy disputed
User:NisarKand has managed to flood this article with his usual POV. I mean, just take a look at his claim that "Pashtuns defeated the Arabs, and then decided to join Islam peacefully" ... what a nonsense. It's clearly mentioned in Ghaznavid chronologies (Ibn Haukal, Utbi, and al-Biruni) that it was Sultan Mahmoud who defeated a Pashtun-Rajput alliance and forced them to accept Islam (Gankovsky, Yu. V., et al "A History of Afghanistan." Moscow: Progress Publishers, 1982).

Tājik 18:14, 27 October 2006 (UTC)


 * There is no POVs about this claim and nothing is nonsense about my edits. Here is the the source and evidence. According to Nancy Hatch Dupree, she writes: ...Ancient Bost now lies in ruins some 10 km; 6 mi; 20 min. south of the modern administrative town. Some recognize the name of Bost in the early Zoroastrian hymns of the Avesta, in Achaemenid town lists and in First Century accounts. These references are vague and open to argument but there is no doubt that the citadel of Bost was taken by early Arab conquerors around 661 AD. From here they tried to take the regions of Kandahar and Kabul but the hill tribes constantly defeated them; even at Bost, Arab control was tenuous and intermittent...Link

I believe User:Tajik is lost and confused. This article was not created by me, it was created by somebody else...look at history of the article. About the Pashtuns defeating Arabs...remember this article is specifically about a city in Afghanistan "Kandahar"...not the entire region of Pashtuns. I hope you have enough brain cells to understand that? Check the Abassid map that I provided so you can see that Arabs conquered all of the region...BUT NOT Kandahar. Can you see it or do you need more thicker eyeglasses? While I am talking about events of 809 A.D.....you, on the other hand, are talking about Ghaznavids, which are events of 962 A.D. to 1030 A.D. (about 200 years later you may say). That proves that you need help in understanding basic numbers. Example: 8th century is not 800 to 899 AD...It is 700 to 799 AD. We are living in the 21st century...not in the 20th century.

Then you make wild guesses by saying "It's clearly mentioned in Ghaznavid chronologies (Ibn Haukal, Utbi, and al-Biruni) that it was Sultan Mahmoud who defeated a Pashtun-Rajput alliance and forced them to accept Islam (Gankovsky, Yu. V., et al "A History of Afghanistan." Moscow: Progress Publishers, 1982)."

Question: Sultan Mahmoud defeated Pashtun-Rajput alliance when and where???? If you think Sultan Mahmoud defeated the Pashtuns in Kandahar city....I would like for you to bring the evidence here so I can see and add to the article. Otherwise, you are making false claims in which you are expert at. Remember again...this is Kandahar city article....not an article about the 50 million or so Pashtuns that live in the region of Afghanistan and Pakistan. You said Sultan Mahmoud defeated the Pashtuns but did not even bother explaining any time period or any exact location where that happened. It indicates that you just made up a wild guess. By the way, Sultan Mahmoud lived in Ghazni, Afghanistan (Pashtun territory)....this indicates that most of his army had to be Pashtuns. I win again as always. NisarKand 04:11, 29 October 2006 (UTC)

Picture from the History section of US soldiers replaced.
American soldiers are no longer the leading participants in Kandahar. Currently the Canadians are in charge of Kandahar. So I replaced the picture with an updated one.

Parsiwan 06:11, 28 December 2006 (UTC)

The Americans are the reason there is any foothold in Afghanistan, and now (mid 2008) they are the leading participants. All Canada is doing is enjoying the coffee shop and the bazaar. Chexmix53 (talk) 19:58, 9 July 2008 (UTC)

celebs
I really don't see the value of mentioning any celebs visiting Kandahar. They weren't visiting the people of the place, but were visiting U.S. troops. This is covered elsewhere, and is too trivial for an article about a place that's so important (historically and currently). --Rob 18:51, 31 December 2006 (UTC)
 * I agree. They are mentioned in the airport article which is probably all they visited. Some are minor celebs anyway. -MarsRover 22:38, 31 December 2006 (UTC)


 * I disagree with both of you because you are attempting to concleal history of Kandahar. You have no idea whatsoever if they toured the city or not? Do you? Is this impossible to do while being provided with heavy security and body armour? I am totally shocked that you removed a very important trivia statements, both historically and politically. I guess I will have to go gather as many Wikipedia administrators as available to help resolve this issue. I advice you to leave the statements alone until the dispute or argument is settled, because if you delet it again, it constituttes an act of vandalism on your part.--NisarKand 23:01, 31 December 2006 (UTC)


 * Let me give you quick details about USA and Afghanistan. USA has population of 300 million....Afghanistan has population of 30 million...meaning Afghanistan has 10% population that of USA. Each year, 40,000 Americans die from car accident alone in USA, while this year in Afghanistan a total of about 4,000 people died (the highest ever recorded since the removal of the Taliban) from fightings (mostly armed militants involved in fighting with foreign and Afghan government). Usually, only an average of 1,500 people die from fighting in the entire Afghanistan. 4,000 is obviously 10% of the 40,000 Americans dying each year in USA and this makes the number of deaths equal in both countries the same. Now, you must check total of number of people being murdered in USA and see what number you come up with, believe me it's huge numbers. And the number of car accidents in Afghanistan is not more then 50 or so. If you do all the calculation properly...you will come to a conclusion that much more people die in USA then in the whole of Afghanistan. About Kanadahar in particular, it is much safer city then many US cities for example: Camden, New Jersey, Baltimore, MD, Washington, DC, Philadelphia, PA, Newark, NJ, Cleveland, OH and many others. So to say or think that Kandahar city is more dangerous then these cities I mentioned of USA, you must be smoking crack cocain. I live in Kanahar and there is nothing going-on but seldomly a car bomb explosion...particularly attacking "ONLY" government forces....NOT CIVILIANS. I see many foreignors, including white western foreignors walking alone in the streets of downtown Kanahar here and there and nobody even pays any attantion to them.--NisarKand 23:27, 31 December 2006 (UTC)


 * I think you off on a tangent on whether the USO team would have visited Kandahar city because of safety. I didn't implied that was the case. There other reasons such as the distance from the airport to the city. And the photos of the visit appear they were there to entertain the soldiers. --MarsRover 00:02, 1 January 2007 (UTC)


 * I explained all that so you get a hint that there was nothing preventing those celebrities to tour the small tiny city. Americans in general are known to be very curious and would take risks. For example, if Robin Williams wanted to see the main streets of the city with his own eyes (perhaps for his own pleasure or satisfaction reasons)...who was there to stop him from doing so? Anyway, I am not saying they visited the city center. From my own personal view, I know they flew in an airplane to get there from which they had to look out the window while landing...down at the small city. This is just a common thing most people do. About the distance....the Airport belongs to the city and there are many hundreds of Afghan civilians that work for the US and NATO forces inside the airport. These workers do all types of work from high level to cleaning the premises. These Afghan workers are provided with special IDs that they use to enter the airport everyday.--NisarKand 03:05, 1 January 2007 (UTC)


 * "Very important trivia" is a contradiction in terms. I don't think there is any "Historical and political" importance to whether the "Hooter Calender Girls" might have visited Kandahar. I just think its not notable as Rob also did. You on the other hand disagree. (That would be 2 to delete and 1 to keep). I think it more up to you to describe why this trivia is so important, not the administrators or me. (Please don't continue the safety talk.. I agree its safe) --MarsRover 00:02, 1 January 2007 (UTC)


 * Things don't work that easy as you put it. I have not invited anyone to this debate yet so it's every man for themselve for now. Why you decided to mention the Hooters Calender Girls and not the other more important figures? Trivia questions are something asked on the TV show "Jeapardy" so you see the importance of that? The safe part is not important...it was just to let you know that there was nothing preventing them from actually taking a risk of going on a tour with the US and NATO forces around the city perhaps. So there is a possibilty of this happening rather than implying that it was impossible for this to occur. Again, I'm not saying it happened...we will not know until we read more about their experiance or hear them one day talking about it on TV. By the way...I am convinced that User:Tajik put you guys into this deleting of the well known information in the Trivia section of this section.--NisarKand 03:05, 1 January 2007 (UTC)


 * OMG, now he - NisarKand - is even claiming to "live in Kandahar" ... a few weeks ago, he was telling everyone that he lives in the US. What comes next? That he also lives in Australia, Saudi Arabia, and South Africa at the same time?! Tājik 00:06, 1 January 2007 (UTC)


 * If you have doubts about where I am...I will always be happy to help you remove those doubts. I told you before (about a month back) that I was working for the US government in Afghanistan and you replied to me that "nobody misses me while I am here in Afghanistan"...remember that one? I travel around...I was suppose to go on a visit to Tehran last week with a couple of people but decided not to. I don't think it's important to others about where I am. I'm sure everyone here are from different places of the world. About my job with the US government...it's simply educational...not combat related in anyway. I work for a Board of Education somewhere in USA, which deals with teaching ESOL to Afghan students in Afghanistan....I am helping with schools in Afghanistan.--NisarKand 03:05, 1 January 2007 (UTC)


 * The definition of "Trivia" is "insignificant trifles of little importance, especially items of unimportant information". You put the visit details under that section then say it "very important" information which is confusing. Also, I mentioned the Hooter Calendar Girls because its the weakest part of your argument. You reverted all the deletions I made so you must think they are just as important as the others. I think you need to assume good faith when responding to people. I have for the most part avoided working on articles with edit wars raging since improvements (no matter how obvious) get reverted and basically its a waste of time. So, back to the debate at hand. Since you are the only one with the opinion to keep these trivia items please describe why these details are so provable, important, historical, etc. that they need to be included. Or have an administrator give their say on it. --MarsRover 10:33, 1 January 2007 (UTC)


 * It's not important who these celebrities really are, regarding their profession or their gavity scores of popularity. The article is specifically about a place. It's important to explain the visits of the American celebrities because they were the first Americans, from the same country that removed the Taliban, to come do an unsual act in Kandahar. Now, the same Americans are using the same place (stronghold of the Taliban) as their base. Before the US intervention and removal of Taliban from Kanahar, the city was under a dark rule. Now, it is a place where girls wearing western-style clothes had visited once to entertain men, standing on the same place singing western music loudly. Previously, it was impossible to have a show like this (bringing women to sing for men) performed in Kandahar or its airport. It was the first time something like this happened in Kandahar's entire over 2,000 year-old written history. Again, this is about the place, and anything that happened on the land of this place needs mentioning. Also, Kandahar Airport, is not 10 miles away from the city as the encyclopedia states. It is actually 10 miles drive on the only highway leading to it from the center of the city...but actually only 5 miles land distance. You must drive 5 miles east towards Qalat, make a right turn and proceed driving another 5 miles south towards Spin Boldak..and the airport is on the right-hand side of the highway. The new "Kandahar Valley" district is very close to the airport, which has been under construction since 2003 and many Afghans live there...less than 5 miles from it. So therefore, the airport is clearly the juristiction of Kandahar City and anything that happend inside the airport or NATO military base to its side needs be mentioned in the article of Kandahar. By the way, how many people do you think visit Kandahar Airfield article? Perhaps not many as compare to Kandahar's article. So thats why it's important that all this be mentioned in this article.--NisarKand 21:42, 1 January 2007 (UTC)


 * "bringing women to sing for men" hasn't happened in Kandahar in "over 2,000 year-old written history". Could you be stretching the truth just a wee bit? --MarsRover 23:41, 1 January 2007 (UTC)

Dispute
Can someone give me a brief summary of what the dispute is this time? (and without attacking anybody and accusing them of "vandalism"?) Khoikhoi 07:33, 1 January 2007 (UTC)


 * User:Tajik placed the disputed tags both in the "Name" section and "History. Regarding the Name "Kandahar" almost every historian from India claims that the name Kandahar is derived from Gandhara, there is no need to ask for source to that sentence and the one after. It is something well known....go to any Yahoo chat room for India and just ask around the people from there...almost everyone there will agree to this. Second...about the citation needed in the "History section"...there is no history books or records to explain every single minor event in details. At the same time we can't just ignore something that needs to be explained. The majority Pashtuns all believe throught their fore-fathers that through loya jirgas they accepted Islam and not by force. The forced conversion took place in Hindu areas, the Eastern territories of the Indus River and not in the Western side of the Indus River, which were territories of the Pashtuns. According to the Arab invaders....they explained that the Pashtuns were the only people out of all the others who put up strict fights defending their areas and fully rejecting their rule. But once the Pashtuns learned that the Arabs were only interested in spreading a peaceful religion...it was finally accepted through loya jirgas (peaceful meetings). You have to use common sense that the Arabs were only interested in spreading Islam at the time, which is a religion to mean peace. What I stated in the History section is clearly believed by all the Pashtuns. The map of the Abbasids shows that Kandahar was not conquered by the Khorasanians (Persian/Arab Muslims). I will look around for better sources in the neat future to help. Oh and Happy New Year (2007) to you and everyone else!--NisarKand 08:06, 1 January 2007 (UTC)
 * Don't talk, NisarKand, provide SOURCES. In Afghanistan, you were given sources, but you rejected them all. In here, you do not have ANY sources and you want other to take your words as gospel! Tājik 14:06, 1 January 2007 (UTC)

NisarKand's nonsense
NisarKand claims in the article that "Arabs were not able to fully convert the Afghan people" ... He attached the following source to this claim:


 * http://encarta.msn.com/text_761569370___42/Afghanistan.html

The source,. however, does not mention anything like that. All it says is the following:


 * "... In the 7th century ad Arab armies carried the new religion of Islam to Afghanistan. The western provinces of Herāt and Sistan came under Arab rule, but the people of these provinces revolted and returned to their old beliefs as soon as the Arab armies passed. In the 10th century Muslim rulers called Samanids, from Bukhara in what is now Uzbekistan, extended their influence into the Afghan area. A Samanid established a dynasty in Ghaznī called the Ghaznavids. The greatest Ghaznavid king, Mahmud, who ruled from 998 to 1030, established Islam throughout the area of Afghanistan. He led many military expeditions into India. Ghaznī became a center of literature and the arts. ..."

What have the people of Herat and Sistan to do with Qandahar?! And how does this sentense support NisarKand's false claim?

Tājik 00:11, 14 January 2007 (UTC)


 * Nothing about NisarKand's edits are nonsense. They are 100% true facts from popular historians. Here is the the source and evidence to show that Arabs were always defeated by the Pashtuns in Kandahar. According to Nancy Hatch Dupree, she writes: ...Ancient Bost now lies in ruins some 10 km; 6 mi; 20 min. south of the modern administrative town. Some recognize the name of Bost in the early Zoroastrian hymns of the Avesta, in Achaemenid town lists and in First Century accounts. These references are vague and open to argument but there is no doubt that the citadel of Bost was taken by early Arab conquerors around 661 AD. From here they tried to take the regions of Kandahar and Kabul but the hill tribes constantly defeated them; even at Bost, Arab control was tenuous and intermittent...Link

false claim with FAKE source from Nisarkand removed
User: NisarKand wrote that "As a result of several battles, more than 30,000 Persian soldiers were killed by the Afghans, along with their leaders Khusraw Khan and Rustam Khan." and cited this source ]. I went to that source and read the entire article. No where did it say what User: NisarKand claimed. In one sentence it mentions "though the Persian General Ṣafí-qulí Khán with 30,000 troops succeeded in defeating an Uzbek army of 12,000 he was immediately afterwards defeated by the Abdáli Afgháns". That means that the Persian forces FIRST faught an army of 12,000 Uzbeks, then fought the Adbali Afghans meaning we do not know how many Persian soldiers survived to fight the Adbali Afghans, nevermind the number that was killed. Nisarkand made a false claim and used a fake source to support it, that is a clear VIOLATION of Wiki's rules. So I have deleted that sentence. Behnam 01:51, 23 January 2007 (UTC)


 * Good one, Beh-nam. Thanks for the efforts. As you can see in my posts above, this is not the first time NisarKand has used fake sources for his POV claims. Tājik 02:02, 23 January 2007 (UTC)


 * ...Several half-hearted attempts to subdue the rebellious city having failed, the Persian Government despatched Success of the rebels. Khusraw Khán, nephew of the late Gurgín Khán, with an army of 30,000 men to effect its subjugation, but in spite of an initial success, which led the Afgháns to offer to surrender on terms, his uncompromising attitude impelled them to make a fresh desperate effort, resulting in the complete defeat of the Persian army (of whom only some 700 escaped) and the death of their general. Two years later, in A.D. 1713, an­other Persian army commanded by Rustam Khán was also defeated by the rebels, who thus secured possession of the whole province of Qandahár.Link to NisarKand's claim here!

Afghanistan existed in the 18th century
Don't ever say that Afghanistan did not exist at the time of Mirwais Khan Hotak. Afghanistan existed even way before that period of time. Study the above maps carefully and you will learn that Afghanistan was a name for a big territory, which covered Kandahar (Qandahar). All the areas where Pashtuns lived was known as Afghanistan. Notice that the border between khorasan and Afghanistan was made in or about the year 1506.NisarKand 12:57, 15 January 2007 (UTC)

Spelling error
Ahmad Shah retired to his home in Maruf, Kandahar, where he died peacfully.[17] peacfully => peacefully 11 aug 2007

Kandahar is the gay capital of South Asia?
Why was this taken out of the article?

''Kandahar is often described as the "gay capital of South Asia". ''

Interesting article by The Times of UK
Why is it taken out of the external links?


 * Kandahar Comes Out of the Closet

WSWS as a reliable source?
Although including a reference should be applauded, the one regarding the condition of the road from Kabul to Kandahar is dubious. World Socialist Web Site is known for pushing an agenda and is not viewed as a reliable source by people on wikipedia. --MarsRover (talk) 21:32, 2 September 2008 (UTC)

Buddhist and Hindu era
I removed the Buddhist and Hindu era because that is refering to NWFP in Pakistan. Please provide convincing evidence that Buddhist and Hindus lived in the city Kandahar and then we can add that into the article. I also removed some other misleading and unsourced info.--210.2.177.244 (talk) 04:36, 29 May 2009 (UTC)

kandahar valley
The picture looks like an American mini development. Can they possibly be planning to build this? I have to go vomit. ( Martin | talk • contribs 10:46, 30 September 2009 (UTC))

Fragment (error) Please fix this.
the article ends with "aghans rules\". This is certainly some kind of error, but I didn't want to delete it because I don't understand it. ( Martin | talk • contribs 13:47, 6 October 2009 (UTC))

Questionable hospitals (removed)
I moved four Hospitals with "citation needed" here. I don't see them on the map of clinics in kandahar, and believe that they are not documented as existing. Map of clinics:

(deleted:) ( Martin | talk • contribs 14:14, 6 October 2009 (UTC))
 * Poly Clinic
 * Al Bilal Hospital
 * Matin Hospital
 * Al Hadi Farhad Hospital

Unsourced information removed
I have removed the following bit:
 * Under the Taliban rule all criminal activities that the previous mujahideen warlords were involved in came to a sudden end, which included murders, rape or sexual abuse of minors, kidnapping, drug dealing, and bribery among other crimes. Before the Taliban came to power, the warlords preyed on young boys for sexual pleasure.

Two sources are given, an article from the NY Times and an article from the LA Times posted on GLAPN, but neither source covers any of the assertions made. The claim that the mujahideen warlords were involved in criminal activities, the claim that these criminal activities came to a sudden end under the Taliban, the claim that the warlords preyed on young boys, nothing is backed up by any reliable sources. 94.212.31.237 (talk) 11:16, 9 February 2010 (UTC)

Kandahar
Kandahar is the latest modified form of the ancient name Gandhara. It has nothing to do with Alexander of Macedonia. Kanchanamala (talk) 02:58, 17 July 2010 (UTC)


 * True! Böri (talk) 13:15, 23 February 2012 (UTC)

Liberty taken
I have taken the liberty of using my own book, Through the Jade Gate to Rome, as a reference on the subject of the possible origin of the name "Kandahar". I hope no one minds - as my position there is based on the findings of other scholars who are quoted in the notes (if anyone does, and feels this is unwarranted self-promotion - please let me know here). In fact, both my position, and that of Kanchanamala as given in the previous notes, are merely theories, and there is no proof for either. For this reason, I think it is proper to present both theories, not just one of them. Sincerely, John Hill (talk) 08:39, 6 January 2011 (UTC)

IPA
The lead says, "Kandahār (/ˈkændəˌhɑːr/)", but the IPA should be ˈkɑːnðəˌhɑːr, which is how the locals pronounce it (there is no hard, "d" sound in the local languages). Please change it!
 * Okay, it is now unlocked for editing and I did it — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2402:8100:282C:4C0E:0:0:0:1 (talk) 01:04, 10 August 2019 (UTC)