Talk:Kanon (video game)/Archive 1

Copyright problems
The two plot summaries added by 24.43.46.216 are copyrighted material plagiarised from animenewsnetwork.com. I will take the liberty of removing them and replacing them with a brief summary, to be expanded by someone else.--Liveforever 16:56, 6 January 2006 (UTC) (a.k.a. abunai, encyclopedia staff, [animenewsnetwork.com])

Meaning behind Kanon?
"The title is generally believed to be derived from the musical term canon." A more convencing argument I've heard is that the game's title is in fact a reference to Kannon, the Bodhisattva of compassion. Somehow, that seems more in-line with the game's theme.Ian 16:26, 18 April 2006 (UTC)


 * That's another popular theory, and worth mentioning in the article if it's not there already; but it has flaws of its own. It doesn't explain the dropping of a mora from the name (the two words are distinct in Japanese), and one must also take into account the fact that nearly all of the other games by the Kanon staff have names which are unambiguously Western loanwords and which don't necessarily relate very closely to the theme of the game (the one exception I can think of is 同棲). In practice, the "canon" theory does appear to be the most widely accepted. &mdash; Haeleth Talk 20:44, 18 April 2006 (UTC)

Name order guidelines
Annoying as it feels, these names need to be switched into Western order as per the Manual of Style. --Masamage 21:17, 8 August 2006 (UTC)


 * They need to be switched per the clear intent of the original designers of Kanon, too. Western order is used for all romaji representations of the names in every edition of the game and its manuals.  :) &mdash; Haeleth Talk 21:51, 8 August 2006 (UTC)


 * Heh! That's awesome. Done. --Masamage 22:12, 8 August 2006 (UTC)

Megatokyo
It may be worth mentioning that Fred Gallagher of Megatokyo fame is a major fan of this game, to the point of nicknaming himself and his protagonist after the cat (Piro) and naming each server after heroines (Makoto, Mishio, Nayuki, Sayuri...). 129.7.254.33 23:21, 9 October 2006 (UTC)
 * It would perhaps worth mentioning on the Megatokyo page under perhaps Trivia, but it has no relavence to Kanon. -- (  十八  |   talk  ) 23:35, 9 October 2006 (UTC)
 * Well, actually, I think there should be a section about how this has been referenced in other media, to show how much of a splash it made in a citable way. For example, in the "date sim" episode of Abenobashi Magical Shopping District (a series where the protagonists are jumping from one reality to another each episode) they explicitly use a parody of Ayu Tsukimiya as one of the major characters of the episode... what she does is in parody of Ayu (including her ultimate fate) and she's also voiced by the voice actress who did Ayu in keeping with that.  Makoto of Kanon showed up in a side joking story of MegaTokyo, Piro got his name from Kanon, sad girls in snow in general (heavily associated with Megatokyo) is something that Megatokyo took from Kanon, and besides Megatokyo there are references in other media like the Abenobashi thing that we might include.  Granted, the Megatokyo stuff would be noted on Megatokyo's page, BUT if we have more to say that has referenced Kanon than Megatokyo that would go here along with mentions of the Megatokyo stuff.  Of course, this should be considered and acted on only if it can be described reasonably, logically, factually, and citably. 72.192.237.134 20:25, 22 October 2006 (UTC) Ismail
 * Well I must say that that sounds like a more constructive idea. So I suppose this could go into an "Impact" section to show its influence in other media. I'm all up for that, but as you said, the information provided should be cited and have a good reason to appear in the article. -- (  十八  |   talk  ) 23:21, 22 October 2006 (UTC)

Spoilers
Who put all those spoilers in the character section? I deliberately removed them when we expanded the character section, and this is for a reason, you know. People come here to learn more about the series, not be turned off because they know what happens. I will wait a few days and, if no one justifies this, remove them. Sana Jisushi 01:48, 4 November 2006 (UTC)
 * I tend to agree with this, and even though this is a debated topic on Wikipedia due to the fact that the spoiler tags are included within the article, I agree that they should be removed. -- (  十八  |   talk  ) 02:13, 4 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Yeah, I think that if the character has that much detail to him/her, we could make an article about him and put the spoilers there. Of course, this is IMO... ;) Magus Melchior 03:21, 4 November 2006 (UTC)
 * I agree too, since there is a List of Kanon episodes article, the spoilers should be present there and not in the character section of this article. --Squilibob 03:24, 4 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Spoiler tags are worthless. A spoiler tag merely informs people that if they want any information, they're going to have to settle for having the entire story ruined for them.  That's not what Wikipedia is about.  Edit away, please.  &mdash; Haeleth Talk 11:31, 4 November 2006 (UTC)
 * I'm pretty sure that's been discussed to death. Magus Melchior 15:49, 4 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Done. If anyone has any objections, maybe we can put a spoiler-tagged section entitled "The town's supernatural secrets" or something? Sana Jisushi 23:00, 9 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Thank you for removing the spoilers, but you changed some things that didn't need to be changed: Air and Clannad are not to be capitalized. Also, I've reinstated the spoiler tags even if major spoiler are not presented anymore, there is still information that described the plot. Remember, the spoiler tag states that "Plot and/or ending details follow" and the plot is detailed in the Plot section obviously. -- (  十八  |   talk  ) 00:32, 10 November 2006 (UTC)
 * While I do agree that spoilers shouldn't be in the article too much, shouldn't we link to a place where the spoilers exist? More specifically, I want to know a place where I can find the different endings of the original game. Brend0 06:56, 26 November 2006 (UTC)

SP tags and capitalization of Air and Clannad
First of all: It's a Wikipedia convention to not capitalize names of Japanese media that are usually shown as completely capitalized. This is why the Air (series) and Clannad (game) articles were moved from their AIR (series) and CLANNAD designations respectively. The same thing has occured to the Naruto article. Now, does it seem logical to list these series different in this article alone if they are uncapitalized even in their own aritcles?! Also, Clannad is being made into a movie by Toei, not KyoAni.

Second: The spoiler tags should still be there as there are aspects of this page in the plot and characters section that do reveal spoilers, even if they aren't major ones. The tags serve the purpose to tell anyone that details of the plot follow, though it's not only used in articles where heavy spoilers have been omitted. It's just a convention used in articles related to anime/manga; go to any article that's been properly wikified and you'll see these templates no matter what.-- (  十八  |   talk  ) 01:05, 11 November 2006 (UTC)
 * I'm pretty sure I said CLANNAD was being made into a movie by Toei... What sort of spoilers did I leave in there? Sana Jisushi 01:12, 11 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Re: Spoilers left in the article:
 * In the first anime version, Yūichi finds a headband identical to Ayu's while unpacking from his move - the question is, why?
 * She has always been in love with him (in Japan, such relationships between first cousins are not only acceptable but common) and must learn how to deal with these feelings, especially with the threat that he may fall for one of the other girls.
 * Nayuki has a fondness for animals and never misses an opportunity to try to pet one, even wild animals. 
 * She loves drama and is always inventing reasons for things that happen in her life, but the real-life drama of a sister who denies her and a life threatened by illness is encroaching on her. 
 * She loves cats and gets her own in the middle of the story, but feels sad that pets are abandoned when their owners cannot take care of them. Her constant pranks on Yūichi range from amusing to downright mean, but she honestly grows to like him.
 * Makoto wears bells around her wrist and likes the sound of them.
 * She apparently takes it upon herself to fight and defeat demons at night while the school is deserted.
 * However, she may just realize that Makoto is a good person and can be cured of her anger, all of which is true. Akiko certainly exhibits more knowledge of the situation than Yūichi as far as the origins of Ayu and Makoto are concerned, hinting that she is familiar with the supernatural goings-on in the town and how they apply to Yūichi.
 * Her surname and appearance indicate that she is Shiori's sister, and Shiori affirms this, but Kaori vehemently denies it. 
 * She mysteriously warns Yūichi to stay away from Makoto when Makoto's health begins to fail. Why?
 * Monsters begin to target her near the end of Mai's story, but she stubbornly stays with Mai.


 * As you can see, these are not severe spoilers, and I don't see any reason why they should be taken out, but the spoiler tags should still be there for this reason.-- (  十八  |   talk  ) 03:24, 11 November 2006 (UTC)
 * If foreshadowing counts as a spoiler, then by all means leave them in. Sana Jisushi 05:13, 11 November 2006 (UTC)

Jun Kitagawa
Is Jun Kitagawa actually not in the original series? It's been a while since I've seen it, but I'm skimming through the show looking for something and I noticed he's in the intro. Would they really bother to make a design for him in the intro if he's not at all in the anime? Or is the comment just wrong? Brend0 06:31, 26 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Jun was in the original anime series; even though I've never seen it, he's pictured in one of the official promo images and since he is apart of the story (kinda), there's no reason why he shouldn't be in there.-- (  十八  |   talk  ) 06:50, 26 November 2006 (UTC)
 * I'm still skimming through the series looking for a scene, but I found one where he's in the show. Episode 6 in the Art Room. I wonder why someone said he wasn't in the original adaptation. Thanks. I'll go fix it. Brend0 06:54, 26 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Never mind. Apparently I read it wrong. I thought the articles said that viewers don't see him in the original. Oops. Brend0 06:58, 26 November 2006 (UTC)

Themes
Amnesia isn't a recurring theme. Amnesia is a plot device used to advance the story assuming that the audience knows absolutely NOTHING about the characters and their background. The real theme of Kanon should be about miracles. I was just thinking that KEY/VisualArts might have translated the entirety of Pachelbel's Canon in D into the visual novel we currently know and love. Could someone with experience in music theory look into this and verify it? (Psychoneko 11:27, 21 December 2006 (UTC))


 * I think what you want is a source (e.g. an interview) in which Key explicitly says they took Pachelbel's Canon and made it into a visual novel... Magus Melchior 20:17, 21 December 2006 (UTC)


 * I've actually gone through the interview material but they never mentioned the reason why they chose the name Kanon. (Psychoneko 00:51, 22 December 2006 (UTC))
 * Alright, I've combined the setting and theme sections along with adding in the note about miracles and changed amnesia from a theme to a sub-theme. That better?-- (  十八  |   talk  ) 02:40, 29 December 2006 (UTC)